Hello all, last year I needed to replace my tyres. I searched for 6 ply tyres and just couldn't source any anywhere. As time was getting short I had to settle for a pair of Matador Elite 195 70 R 14 96S after being assured by several suppliers these would be up to the required spec. I have always had reservations as to the effect of motorised movers on tyres, which is the reason I've always before had 6 ply tyres to help offset any likely degradation.Yesterday I checked my tyres only to find the offside feels to have a slightly lumpy feel all round the wall circumferance compared to the nearside, also it has a slight depression on the wall about a finger wide from tread to inner rim.I'm no expert on tyres, other than our lives and others do depend on them, I now don't have any confidence in the manufacture or spec of these tyres. After only doing a trip from Leeds to North Wales and back,then from Leeds to Richmond Nth Yorkshire and back on them, I'm afraid I now have'nt got the bottle to tour another mile on them.I've spent some time earlier today on the internet and phone trying to source some 6 ply tyres also looking at the option of Tyron bands (these could come later when funds permit) however as things sometimes work out on enquireing with ATS about Tyron bands I mentioned my need of 6 ply tyres and he said they could supply 2 Pirelli 8 ply fitted with valves and balanced for £156.00 or 8 ply budgets for £25.00 or so less. Going to settle for the Pirrellis. Good on yer,good old ATS!!! Oh I should mention that our caravan is an Abbey Aventura 318 Yr 2001, new to us 2Yrs ago, I chose it for it's GRP sidewalls. As a retired couple we tour well within the allowed weight limits,Thought I'd just relay my very recent experience of tyres, I am no expert, only I hope in the science of play safe,Regards to all and happy touring,Cliff.
The old chestnut TYRES
- Thread starter cliffob
- Start date
8 Ply tyres are basically the same as Commercial tyres, which means they have stiffer sidewalls. £25 for budgets sounds cheap & dodgy to me, as any thing reasonable for a caravan has always cost me around the £50 mark. I have always used Hometyre myself, good on service, and they come to me. Saves me hitching the caravan up and towing it to the local dealer.
Can anyone tell me why the hole in the centre of a caravan wheel is bigger than the hub? On cars they are a tight fit, yet most caravans I have seen have around a 5mm clearance.
Can anyone tell me why the hole in the centre of a caravan wheel is bigger than the hub? On cars they are a tight fit, yet most caravans I have seen have around a 5mm clearance.
Just had my 'van serviced at home by very nice man. He recommended replacing the tyres for no reason other than they were 5 years old. He sorted it all out, taking the wheels and bringing them back with GT Radial MaxMiler CX tyres 175r14c. These, I am told, are 8 ply. £55 each. I'm happy with that.
Sorry can't have explained things very well the price for 8 ply budgets was £25.00 less than the Pirelli 8 ply's which would work out at £131.00.Hope i've cleared up that misunderstanding,Cheers Cliff
I'm beginning to understand Tyresafes attitude that 'ply ratings' are out of date and only the load index number is current and accurately describes the load carrying capacity and therefore the suitability of a tyre. The point being this thread is flitting from ply ratings to load index numbers and back again, with confusion reigning!
If we stick to load index numbers, then a tyre of any construction is suitable as long as the load index number exceeds the load the tyres are going to carry, after all, 6 or 8ply 'Commercial' tyres no longer have 6 or 8 plies so totally irrelevant.
What I would point out is the Matadors are 'reinforced' construction tyres and have a maximum pressure of 42psi, the old 6ply Commercials maximum is 54psi, so the same load is carried at widely different pressures.
Also with a load index of 96 I think that's a higher number so can carry more load than the '6 plys'?!
With that in mind, incorrect pressures used in the Matadors might explain their early demise?
If we stick to load index numbers, then a tyre of any construction is suitable as long as the load index number exceeds the load the tyres are going to carry, after all, 6 or 8ply 'Commercial' tyres no longer have 6 or 8 plies so totally irrelevant.
What I would point out is the Matadors are 'reinforced' construction tyres and have a maximum pressure of 42psi, the old 6ply Commercials maximum is 54psi, so the same load is carried at widely different pressures.
Also with a load index of 96 I think that's a higher number so can carry more load than the '6 plys'?!
With that in mind, incorrect pressures used in the Matadors might explain their early demise?
Hello Cliff,
Sorry to hear of the problems with your tyres, I hope your sorted soon.
You mention fitting tyre bands, I am not convinced they make any significant difference. The typical advertising material seeks to give the impression they will keep the tyre tread under some kind of control, but I am highly sceptical about the scientific accuracy for the demonstrations they show. If they were scientifically based, they would show what would happen to the same vehicle without the bands fitted.
The small hole they induce with an explosive charge bears little resemblance to the more typical substantial failure of a real world blow out, where a tear of several cm’s in length is more common and the tyre wall is substantially weakened or lost.
The bands ability to control the tread relies on the tyre wall remaining substantially intact. If the tyre wall integrity is impaired or lost, the bands loose any advantage they may have had.
Real world blow out do not usually just have a small diameter hole as caused by a controlled charge, its usually a much bigger gash.
Don’t blindly go out and buy bands, make an informed decision, as they cost a lot and in my view they do not provide the security you seek.
Sorry to hear of the problems with your tyres, I hope your sorted soon.
You mention fitting tyre bands, I am not convinced they make any significant difference. The typical advertising material seeks to give the impression they will keep the tyre tread under some kind of control, but I am highly sceptical about the scientific accuracy for the demonstrations they show. If they were scientifically based, they would show what would happen to the same vehicle without the bands fitted.
The small hole they induce with an explosive charge bears little resemblance to the more typical substantial failure of a real world blow out, where a tear of several cm’s in length is more common and the tyre wall is substantially weakened or lost.
The bands ability to control the tread relies on the tyre wall remaining substantially intact. If the tyre wall integrity is impaired or lost, the bands loose any advantage they may have had.
Real world blow out do not usually just have a small diameter hole as caused by a controlled charge, its usually a much bigger gash.
Don’t blindly go out and buy bands, make an informed decision, as they cost a lot and in my view they do not provide the security you seek.
Hello all,I think this could be some sort of gimmick to get caravaners to accept a lower standard of tyre, I did notice on my quest for 6 ply that motorhomes had a different rateing.In perhaps my ignorance I would consider a caravan to be far nearer to commercial use than modern car use, It would seem that being designed to accept lower pressures brings the Matador tyre and its like within this catergory.After all, my concern is that I dont end up a twisted mass of wreckage, caused by a blowout in high volume heavy lorry motorway traffic.How tyres are catergorised matters not, what matters to me is that the tyres on my caravan are strong and up to the job far in excess of my caravans needs, and a commercial rateing must provide this.There is also the small chance of hitting sharp flying debris at speed. Here a strong wall could come into its own,and a thin flexible wall be detrimental. So 8 ply it has to be. A small added bonus is that I think my mover will function much better working on a commercial tyre with a proper commercial pressure as specified by the caravan manufacturer.I hope to sort this by the end of this week so if anyone wants the hardly used Matador tyres their welcome to them, no liability accepted of course,or it's to the tip.Will need collecting from Leeds.Cheers Cliff.
Hello Prof John L, I've taken on board your advice which also the chap at ATS seemed to hint at in the same vein, especially if I had the 8 ply tyres fitted. So I'm confident I'm on the right track. With hindsight and knowledge gained from this forum it seems that last year I finished up with Matador tyres because of a terminology problem. Its "commercial" I should have used, not 6 ply,to express my needs. Almost like the computer world and it's strange rigid terminology to an old dog like me.Ah well thats life,Can I say thank you for your concern and your help is much appreciated,Best Regards, Cliff.
I might throw some insight into this as I had what I believe you are describing with all three of my Matador tyres and investigated the cause. I would add I also had much more serious issues and replaced them.Cliff B said:
The pulls were due to overlaps in the wrapping of the reinforcing plies that where they existed made the wall much stiffer than the areas to each side. This resulted in the visual pulls in the side walls when the tyre was inflated, in my case to 65 psi, where the wall could not "give" like the rest of the side-wall. The consensus of opinion from my local dealers were that its more an aesthetic issue than a safety issue but is an indication of the poor quality of the tyre in general.
I have to agree with Gary that the use of the term 4,6,8 etc Ply is long obsolete and a cause of confusion. Whilst it does inform the number of plies used in build it does not in itself impart any information on the characteristic or properties of the tyre, as it does not give info on the material, denier or weave pattern and therefore the "strength" of those plies. It's the "Load rating" that solely indicates the load carrying capability of the tyre. You could have tyres with 2 plies well equalling another makers 6 or 8 ply tyre. Indeed it might well be a quality warning sign if a maker uses a large number of plies for a given load rating that they are laying up the fabric from off a roll rather than using a pre-made [knitted] up doughnut of reinforcing. The former leading to the "side-wall pulls" we have been discussing.
I had a problem finding tyres this spring and was surprised at what I was offered!! My Bailey originally had Trailermax which I changed at 5 years old, but they were not available to buy locally or online. Also since the van had had a load upgrade the standard tyres were rated at a total of 1420kg for a max van weight of 1400kg. looking around I came across a new tyre by GT Radial called Kargomax which is specifically for trailer use. Its siedwall is embossed as such. In my size I could get the heavier duty ST6000 which gave me a significant increase in load margin. The cost was about £60 eac with delivery and local fitting extra. I bought them from Pnues Online and they were shipped in from Holland within 2 days of order.
.......another aspect to watch out for is blindly following tyre pressures printed in your caravans handbook or marked on the caravan.
This figure applies to the tyres originally fitted by the caravan maker when new.
Tyres fitted subsequently may be of a different construction and require a different pressure for your caravans axle load.
For example commercial specification tyres such as 175Rx13C will require higher pressures than the original fit 175Rx13.
Gary has pointed this aspect out in his post and he is right in that it may lead to the use of incorrect pressures and subsequent tyre failure.
This figure applies to the tyres originally fitted by the caravan maker when new.
Tyres fitted subsequently may be of a different construction and require a different pressure for your caravans axle load.
For example commercial specification tyres such as 175Rx13C will require higher pressures than the original fit 175Rx13.
Gary has pointed this aspect out in his post and he is right in that it may lead to the use of incorrect pressures and subsequent tyre failure.
Hello All,As promised back to let you know the final outcome.The replacement tyres are Avon same make as I've always had on my caravans over the years,and I like this touch ' Made in England' especially in these troubled economic times.The spec. reads Supervan AV4 Radial Steel 195 R14 C 8 ply Rateing 106/104N Load Range D 900kg 450KPACold Tread plies 2steel 1Nylon 2Polyester. Sidewall plies 2Polyester.Obviously these tyres are a far more substantial tyre than the Matadors. The spec gives an inflation pressure of 65PSI, I'm now wondering what effect this will have on the caravan suspension, although I do have Alco shocks fitted.I remember several years ago I read the best way to arrive at a reasonable compromise, was to lower the tyre pressure in view of the much lower load figures, and then test on a long run by checking out the tyre temperatures,comes right back to Gafferbill's comment.Oh and that phrase "Load Range D" couldn't find out what this applies to on the commercial tyre spec tables, maybe some kind person would enlighten? Regards to All,Cliff.
Facebook
Twitter