to help or not to help

[starlightdj]

I am currently on a site in great yarmouth, a van further up the feild has one of those half tunnel porch awnings.

I think its been left there from last weekend as not seen anybody using it.

This morning the wind has got up and the pegs started working loose and the material started to flap, thinking like i would if it was my own I went over and repegged it, by mid afternoon they started to come loose again, I was on my way over when the site owner aproached me to ask what I was doing, when I explained he stated I was to leave it alone as it was the responsibility of the owner even though they are not expected back on site until tomorrow.

I have now had to watch whilst all the pegs have come out, the material is now flapping around and banging against the van.

i have been back to the site owner whom states he is unprepared to do anything as the van owner could blame him for any damage.

Question - What do you do - try to help or not??

Cheers

John

 

[Parksy]

It's a dilemma now that the site owner has become involved.

Personally I'd peg it down or secure it in some way otherwise you will have to listen to the loose awning flapping about all night long.

I don't really see what it's got to do with the site owner if you decide to help another caravanner out.

 

[BedfordGeorge]

Hello John,

As a total novice still waiting to get my first van, my only comment would be that it sounds like a site to avoid.

Best regards,

George

 

[MikeJE]

I would have a quiet word with the 'van owner explaining what has happened and show the owner these postings as evidence of events. Be discrete though, doing this may enrage the site owner - to your disadvantage.

 

[foshy]

Slightly different end situation here, but when on a CL site a year or so back a similar thing happened. Another caravaner's awning came unpegged. I re-pegged it and when the owners came back explained what I had done and they were so grateful it was unreal. I even had to enter to tighten the poles so I felt I really had to explain that I had entered their awning.

Again, think what you would want done if you have left the site and the same happened to your outfit. Personally I would like to think someone would help out and try and fix the situation.

Good luck - please post the outcome once its known.

 

[starlightdj]

been back to site owner whom states he has contacted the van owner and thats all he is prepared to do.

The awning started fappin over the roof with the flexi poles still attached.

I have taken the poles out and put them under the van and tied the thin awning material up so no longer flapping however after looking at the side of the van its now got several dents and scratches where the poles were banging.

I know the van owner is to blame as you shouldnt leave a porch awning up when leaving the van for a few days but I cant understand the site owners attitide in either not helping or telling others not to get involved, in the end i couldnt stand by any longer.

This could be a costly mistake to the van owner.

cheers

John

 

[Guest]

I think because of your actions,the van owner if he decides to, has a valid case against the site owner, who makes himself an accessory to any damage that the van might have incurred because he intervened in stopping you doing a good turn and securing the awning down.Indeed negligence springs to mind,and had the awning flew off and damaged other caravans or hit somebody when the site owner was aware of the problem, then negligence spring to mind

common sense should take priority ........

(Mod note: abusive comment removed)

 

[Guest]

It is indeed a sad state of affairs when as a nation we have decided that good neighbourliness is to be sacrificed on the altar of potential litigation.

Yes, the owner should have taken the awning down, and it would have only taken 10 minutes of his time. But he did not, possibly he forgot, or was short of time. Whatever the reason it is apparent that if the pegs become loose and the poles start flying around then damage could be caused either to his van, or to others and action to restrain it is to be welcomed.

It is one reason, among many others, why I try to take most of my caravanning time outside the UK in countries where this sort of ridiculous behaviour is either ignored or never done. In France last year neighbours went out for the day and a bit of a storm blew up out of nowhere. Myself and another caravanner saw that a British couple had left their chairs, tables and various other bits outside the awning while they were out, and the awning itself was open. That is not uncommon in Europe. So, we went across, placed all the furniture inside and secured the awning sides. We never thought twice about it.

On the return of the owners, drinks were offered all round and thanks expressed.

Reminds me of the tragic case recently of a woman being left to die in a mineshaft while the Fire Brigade argued whether their Health and Safety procedures could allow them to do their job.

Have we really become that warped?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

It is indeed a sad state of affairs when as a nation we have decided that good neighbourliness is to be sacrificed on the altar of potential litigation.

Yes, the owner should have taken the awning down, and it would have only taken 10 minutes of his time. But he did not, possibly he forgot, or was short of time. Whatever the reason it is apparent that if the pegs become loose and the poles start flying around then damage could be caused either to his van, or to others and action to restrain it is to be welcomed.

It is one reason, among many others, why I try to take most of my caravanning time outside the UK in countries where this sort of ridiculous behaviour is either ignored or never done. In France last year neighbours went out for the day and a bit of a storm blew up out of nowhere. Myself and another caravanner saw that a British couple had left their chairs, tables and various other bits outside the awning while they were out, and the awning itself was open. That is not uncommon in Europe. So, we went across, placed all the furniture inside and secured the awning sides. We never thought twice about it.

On the return of the owners, drinks were offered all round and thanks expressed.

Reminds me of the tragic case recently of a woman being left to die in a mineshaft while the Fire Brigade argued whether their Health and Safety procedures could allow them to do their job.

Have we really become that warped?

Sadly yes.

 

[BobC]

I was very grateful that the warden and an other caravaner saved my awning last year at Banchory when wind wrapped it over the roof!

I had driven to a nearby dealer to get some hard pegs as I realised it wasn't secure; not quick enough.

They saved me a hugh cost in minor damaged awning and un-damaged van, and used common sense and common decency to help another caravaner. We should all do the same. Some people use "health & safety" or "litigation" as an excuse to be a bystander.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

My personal take on it is that the whole problem lay with the warden. I'm sure 99.99% of wardens would have acted differently.

Jobsworths and rectal orifices come in all shapes and sizes and work in all kind of jobs and unfortunately John came across one.

Thankfully they are very far and few between but sadly seem to be breeding and spreading in todays political climate :O(

Despite the bad winter the rats in our garden, and also our neighbours gardens, are breeding and spreading. Maybe its because of health and safety that they've been refusing to eat the food on the traps that we've laid.

 

[Dustydog]

Looks like the days of the good samaritan are over. Absolutely pathetic.

Stuff the site owner. I'd repeg the chaps awning.

What on earth is this world coming to? The next thing will be notices in the toilets telling me to undo my zip before using the urinal!

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Parksy]

If we followed this site owners philosophy to it's logical conclusion we would be expected to stand idly by while a neighbouring caravan was stolen or stand warming our hands if somebody's caravan caught fire.

For the site owner to claim that he might be blamed for any damage if he took steps to secure the awning is ludicrous.

The danger and I suspect the reason the caution of John the o.p. might be that with such a bloody minded idiot in charge of the site he might be given his marching orders if he had defied this Jobsworth and helped out in the first place.

I'd definitely tell the unfortunate caravan owner about the attitude of the site owner.

 

[FrintonMike]

If we followed this site owners philosophy to it's logical conclusion we would be expected to stand idly by while a neighbouring caravan was stolen or stand warming our hands if somebody's caravan caught fire.

For the site owner to claim that he might be blamed for any damage if he took steps to secure the awning is ludicrous.

The danger and I suspect the reason the caution of John the o.p. might be that with such a bloody minded idiot in charge of the site he might be given his marching orders if he had defied this Jobsworth and helped out in the first place.

I'd definitely tell the unfortunate caravan owner about the attitude of the site owner.

John, if it is at the Wild Duck and attached to a Abbey GTS it is mine and we will be back this evening. I would be greatful if it is mine you can repeg it until we return, although I did attach a storm strap

 

[madeleine]

Hi John

May I say I would be very gratefull if you helped me out like that, what a difference a country makes though-- when in France we suffered a really bad storm whilst out for the day, when we returned all the awning had been shut up for us, the table and chairs etc put neatly inside and the washing that had been out was on the table neatly folded in piles, even the frilly nickers!!! (hubbies of course) We would always help now, Im sure most people are happy.

regards Maddy

 

[Parksy]

I've re posted this for Michael because it was hidden in the 'comments' and might not have been seen:

10:06 AM John, if it is at the Wild Duck and attached to a Abbey GTS it is mine and we will be back this evening. I would be greatful if it is mine you can repeg it until we return, although I did attach a storm strap

Michael

 

[Guest]

about 3 years ago 4 of us in wind and rain took awning down for new caravaner who left site for day out weather changed so we had to help could not sit and watch awnning blowing and unpegged

when they came back thinking about damage to van and awnning they were so gratefull came into our van red wine flowed been friends ever since .

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

nice touch parksy, it would be nice to know the outcome of this just in case the van was michael's, knowing that one forum member could help another one via the forum on the internet,

it is a sad reflection though on the state of modern caravanning when something like this crops up it would never have arisen in the early days when the everybody helped everybody else without thinking about it. just another thing that the spirit of the hobby has lost along the way.

personally I would have just gone over and repegged it, if nessesary using some of my spare pegs and sod the warden,??

but then thats the the way I am.

colin

 

[Denise4]

I too would have appreciated your help if you had repegged my awning. We returned from a day out last yr in N Devon to find our awning flapping and billowing. If someone had just repegged a few pegs less or no damage would have been done. We now have several unsightly dinks on the caravan which are too expensive to have repaired. If I saw a situation like this I would help.Like the others have said in France, if you are out and your washing is out and it rains, the neighbours will more than likely take it in for you. Denise

 

[forestgump]

if the said person see some one defaceing this wardens loos would the warden expect him to report this .Ithink he would like tobe told .

 

[Royston]

While staying on a cc site New England Bay a few years back, its a very windy site situated on The Rhines which has the sea on both sides .One day the winds became very gusty, several awnings fell foul and had to be removed.One in particular belonged to a twin axle Senator owner offsite , one large gust and the full length awning swung into the air only being held attatched to the van via awning rail, the poles with the nasty spikes on the end flailing around like a enormous octopus , very dangerous could have caused a nasty accident if they had come in contact with anybody.

It took 10 of us both sexes to get the awning grounded, and finally removed from the van, the awning rail had become very twisted and dented in the process , which hindered the progress, the owner's were off site, the pegs that they had used where the simple tent pegs no wonder it became adrift.

On hindsite one wonders whether the Health and Safety Act would have covered anyone of us should the spikes made contact, On CC ground would my personnel insurance covered me, would the caravan owners accept liability to pay up , At least the Warden employed by CC must be covered by Site Insurance.

Simular thing happened on CC Uttoxeter Race Course, where the Wardens told us to stand clear while they removed the awning.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Royston

See the details of the old Volenti rule. Probably outdated but does go someway here.

Volenti non fit injuria (Latin: "to a willing person, no injury is done" or "no injury is done to a person who consents") is a common law doctrine which means that if someone willingly places themselves in a position where harm might result, knowing that some degree of harm might result, they cannot then sue if harm actually results. Volenti only applies to the risk which a reasonable person would consider them as having assumed by their actions; thus a boxer consents to being hit, and to the injuries that might be expected from being hit, but does not consent to (for example) his opponent striking him with an iron bar, or punching him outside the usual terms of boxing. Volenti is also known as a "voluntary assumption of risk."

Volenti is sometimes described as the plaintiff "consenting to run a risk." In this context, volenti can be distinguished from legal consent in that the latter can prevent some torts arising in the first place (for example, consent to a medical procedure prevents the procedure from being a trespass to the person, or consenting to a person visiting your land prevents them from being a trespasser).

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[starlightdj]

Hi Royston

See the details of the old Volenti rule. Probably outdated but does go someway here.

Volenti non fit injuria (Latin: "to a willing person, no injury is done" or "no injury is done to a person who consents") is a common law doctrine which means that if someone willingly places themselves in a position where harm might result, knowing that some degree of harm might result, they cannot then sue if harm actually results. Volenti only applies to the risk which a reasonable person would consider them as having assumed by their actions; thus a boxer consents to being hit, and to the injuries that might be expected from being hit, but does not consent to (for example) his opponent striking him with an iron bar, or punching him outside the usual terms of boxing. Volenti is also known as a "voluntary assumption of risk."

Volenti is sometimes described as the plaintiff "consenting to run a risk." In this context, volenti can be distinguished from legal consent in that the latter can prevent some torts arising in the first place (for example, consent to a medical procedure prevents the procedure from being a trespass to the person, or consenting to a person visiting your land prevents them from being a trespasser).

Cheers

Dustydog

Hi all

Update im not on wild duck site but did call in and spoke to the person on reception they said not aware of any problems so Michael I hope all is ok with you.

The van owner returned only late afternoon today he is aparently on a seasonal pitch here and had gone back to work after last weekend.

Apparently the warden had warned him previously to take his awning down when he went home but last sunday got called away to a family member not being to well so didnt have time. i explained i had repegged out once and got stopped when trying to do it a second time with the wind being so strong. He seamed to reckon the warden was trying to teach him a leson and thats why he intervened being a bit of a jobs worth.

The van owner was greatfull for my efforts and i helped him put the awning back up which luckily seams undamaged unlike the van. He will be speaking to the site owner again in the morning re the damage but doesnt think he will get anywhere as he had been prev. warned. Also stated he would be moving site as soon as possible which seams a big shame as in every other way this is a nice site.

I always have helped out other caravaners before and will in the future however i do feel guilty for stopping when instructed to by the warden, I thought he would know best in these type of situations.

Perhaps my late actions at least saved further damage or loss of the awning.

cheers

John

 

[starlightdj]

sorry all update posted but under comment to dustydog rather than reply to topic

cheers

John