Total total lunatic

[Parksy]

Whilst driving to Manchester this morning in torrential rain along the M60 I was in total disbeleif at being overtaken by a silver BMW towing a Hymer Nova and I was driving at 75mph, This lunatic must have been doing at least 80mph, I was half hoping that I would have seen both his car and caravan on their side in a ditch further down the carraigeway. its all he deserves, What a muppet, Really gives caravanners a good name, (must be the BMW syndrome) and I dont think he had indicators, are they extra's on a bm ?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Jack,

Speeding is irresponsible and aginst the law. so what makes you any different from the driver of the BMW.

 

[Damian]

I think anyone driving at 75 mph in torrential rain is, in the words of the OP.........Total Total Lunatic

 

[Easyvanner]

Not wise and against the law in the UK.
But 75 on the clock is probably nearer or on the 70 mph legal limit.
Since we returned to caravanning this year we've had 5 "racing" incidents of beeing overtaken by other outfits after we've passed them (cruise control set on true 60mph) when we get to hill our car maintains speed and then we've repassed only to have the other outfits pass at over the 60 limit until they hit a hill, 3 of the cars have been diesel Mondeo's and two diesel Toyota's.
I guess we have a 100+ HP to spare over both, are all Mondeo and Toyota drivers mad? NO. The badge has nothing to do with it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello easyvanner,

The op did not state 'on the clock, so one has to assume he/she meant a real 75mph, not corrected. Even if it was nearer 70, if its over its still speeding, and under the stated conditions probably dangerous.

There is no excuse for speeding, and it in no way mitigates the OP's offence to point out someone else's failing.

Why do some people find it neccessary to bragg about braking the law?

 

[Steve L]

Speeding in pouring rain on a grease laden motorway where the roads surface has had neumerous oil drips from millions of cars and lorries, with or without a trailer big or small on the back is pure lunacy. The troble is when the lunatic has the accident, they will undoubtedly take several other drivers along for a ride of hell.

Now before you lot start, yes I have driven at high speeds and done silly things in the past but fast driving and rain on a greasy road is something I don't do no matter what the circumstances are. Oh by the way I just wonder how many of the rightious ones stick to 50 in a 50 or manage to do 20Mph by schools. I stick to below 20 by schools and often get tooted at for going too slow. But speed has a place and when there is risk to other lives, it isn't worth the risk.

 

[Oldsalt49]

The modern motor vehicle has many features to protect the driver and passengers. Technology such as Traction Control, Anti-locking brake systems, ESP and more, however these systems do not defy the laws of physics. I have experienced loss of road grip due to aqua-planing, and now drive more appropriately to the conditions of the road. How many times do we see idiots on the roads without lights when there is near zero visibility due to road spray? Or the idiot who feels sidelights are suitable in fog? Judging by the number of vehicles running around with defective lighting is amazing, proof that pro-active policing is required. I think in general caravanners are some of the safest drivers on the road, because we learned to be more aware of what is happening around us on the roads. I can not imagine how an outfit behaves at 80 mph, as I have never taken mine to that speed? But I can imagine the panic that would set in if something became amiss. Like the OP, I too hope these loonies end up in a ditch, as long as they do not take anyone (me) else with them.

 

[602]

Hi,
Replying to the bit about defective lights ..... wouldn't it be nice if garage fore-courts had big mirrors stategically placed so that you check all your lamps easily, quickly and single handed. With luck, you might dazzle yourself, and so reset your headlight elevation knob.
602

 

[Oldsalt49]

Hi 602,

I like the mirrors at the petrol station idea. But apart from the brakes, all the lights can be checked within a minute just by a quick walk around the car. Garages/petrol stations sell all the types of light bulbs required, but they seem less important than a packet of fags or a lottery ticket to most drivers.

 

[Dustydog]

Whilst driving to Manchester this morning in torrential rain along the M60 I was in total disbeleif at being overtaken by a silver BMW towing a Hymer Nova and I was driving at 75mph, This lunatic must have been doing at least 80mph, I was half hoping that I would have seen both his car and caravan on their side in a ditch further down the carraigeway. its all he deserves, What a muppet, Really gives caravanners a good name, (must be the BMW syndrome) and I dont think he had indicators, are they extra's on a bm ?

Now here's a dilemma and I don't know the right answer.

Maybe he was "speeding" because he'd just stolen the Hymer?

Did the number plates match?
Maybe he was a complete rsole?

Do you phone the police or do you let him go well out of your own way just in case he does cause an accident?

 

[Steve L]

Hi Olds.

I agree, too many people trust all the abs, esp,traction control gizmo's in a false belief that no matter what the nutter behind the wheel does, they'll be safe.

Yesterday a new part of the driving test kicked off, where the driver has to proove they can navigate their way across town without a sat nav. I suppose it's a start to improving driver capability. I would like to see a lesson or two on a skid pan thrown in to educate drivers about what to expect and do when they loose control of the car. That would be helpfull in lowering accidents if people can "feel" when they are driving on the edge of grip on the highway.

Mirrors at a petrol station would be a safety nightmare from a sun glare and light deflection point of view. I regularly (at least once a week) back into a car park space at our local morrisons, so thta I can check my brake lights reflecting in the shop window. That is despite my car having bulb failure detection as I don't trust it.

The reason I don't trust bulb failure detection is because when I bought my Rover 75 estate, I was constantly being told by the gizzmo that the rear right tail light was out. On investigation, I found that the person who wired the trailer lights in using the correct relay, had wired it wrong. Furthermore, on visiting the relay manufacturers web site, i found a wiring diagram which activated the test/teach mode of the trailer relay. Now when I plug the caravan into the car, the relay unit test's all the caravan circuits ten times giving me time to walk round the van and see all the road lights including the brake lights working before setting off. It seems that tow bar fitters can't be bothered to put a 30mm long wire link into the relay power supply to activate what is a great safety feature.

 

[Dustydog]

. Furthermore, on visiting the relay manufacturers web site, i found a wiring diagram which activated the test/teach mode of the trailer relay. Now when I plug the caravan into the car, the relay unit test's all the caravan circuits ten times giving me time to walk round the van and see all the road lights including the brake lights working before setting off. It seems that tow bar fitters can't be bothered to put a 30mm long wire link into the relay power supply to activate what is a great safety feature.

Steve
What make is your relay kit?
I want to check mine and see if it has the same facility.

 

[SUSPENDTom746]

Hello easyvanner,

The op did not state 'on the clock, so one has to assume he/she meant a real 75mph, not corrected. Even if it was nearer 70, if its over its still speeding, and under the stated conditions probably dangerous.

There is no excuse for speeding, and it in no way mitigates the OP's offence to point out someone else's failing.

Due to a log in error I have lost my original username of "Tom " and had to post as above but anyway, as the OP I have to comment on your post, Are you seriously for real??
I made a comment about a "fellow" caravanner doing 80mph towing a caravan and to answer your question I was doing an indicated 73mph so technically I WASN'T speeding nor was I bragging about doing so, the post was about the Hymer doing 80mph ( or perhaps in your haste to point out my faults you didn't actually read the original comments I made)

Moderator Note
Totally unnecessary abusive word removed from posting.
Damian -Moderator

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Tom,

I have not seen the unedited version of your last post, but thank you for your concern for my reallity, I have pinched myself and yes I find I am real.

If the facts were as you described them the caravanner was speeding by a considerable margin, but also under the conditions you desribe, it ceratinly suggets recless and possibly dangerous driving too.

You did state you were doing 75mph. That is speeding when the limit is 70. I also wonder if your speed was excessive for the conditions that you describe.

You have now changed your story and you state you were doing an indicated 73, but we still don't know the error of your speedometer, so you could still be speeding. If you were in my car and doing an indicated 72, that would still be a true 70 and thus at 73 it is speeding.

Why is it ok for you to speed but not the caravanner?,

There is no justification for ordinary members of the public to speed. It is only the Association of Police Chief Officers (APCO) that recommends police forces to give some excess tolerance when assessing speeding, it is not written into the law. it is perfectly possible for a zero tolerance to applied, in which case a 1mph over speed could be taken to prosecution, after all it is called a speed LIMIT.

I am sorry if the truth hurts, but the law of the land applies to you as well as me.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

There is also no justification for the police to speed either, but many do when not on a call or in Persuit of others.
Covering 128 miles on motorways, most traffic was passing us and we were on true 70mph. We were passed by an unmarked Skoda police car, police Transit van with a uniformed officer driving, police Kuga, police Astra and an Ambulance that was not on call ( stopped at fuel station and the crew bought coffee and rolls in Southampton).
Recently video of an M3 spec unmarked police care was sent to a police force the car averaged over 80mph on a twisting country road. The car was moved five days later to another area.
It's best to concentrate on your own driving and leave the law breakers to the law.

 

[xtrailman]

Hello easyvanner,

The op did not state 'on the clock, so one has to assume he/she meant a real 75mph, not corrected. Even if it was nearer 70, if its over its still speeding, and under the stated conditions probably dangerous.

There is no excuse for speeding, and it in no way mitigates the OP's offence to point out someone else's failing.

Why do some people find it neccessary to bragg about braking the law?

There is always an excuse to speed.
And everyone does speed.
You also speed.
Anyone who claims they don't are not being true full.
But don't complain if you have to answer to the law.
I live in the REAL world, not with the fairies.

 

[Damian]

It seems that as nothing new is being added in a responsible manner, and the topic is starting to descend into personalities, it is time to call a halt and leave it alone.

Speeding and some other topics seem to bring out the worst in replies after the initial posting, almost always ending up in personal wars of words.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am not surprised at some of the responses on this thread, there are sections of the community who feel that they have the right to travel at what speed they like even if it is above the limit, and they become most indignant when their illegal actions are pointed out to them. They often try diversion tactics to shift the focus away from them.

Some have even tried to claim the Institute of Advanced Drivers advocates speeding in some circumstances, yet when pressed the Institute states that is never a proposition they make because it is illegal, and It is wholly irresponsible for anyone to advocate an activity that is illegal or dangerous.

Speeding is illegal.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

http://www.policespeedcameras.info/uk_news1.html
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-10149924.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4027545.stm
The problem with speeding laws are that they are not based ofull on fact or sound logic and the laws are not enforced equally and fairly and on all who use the roads.
We watch what we do and leave others to do what they want, I've never wanted to be a policeman. Just let them do their job and stick to the laws they enforce themsleves, people will respect them and the law more when that happens.

 

[Parksy]

http://www.policespeedcameras.info/uk_news1.html
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-10149924.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4027545.stm
The problem with speeding laws are that they are not based ofull on fact or sound logic and the laws are not enforced equally and fairly and on all who use the roads.

The links that you provided suggest that the laws are enforced equally and fairly with regard to the police officers who commited offences highlighted in the news items in the url's.
The stories show that they were either convicted or faced prosecution.
UK Towing law with regard to lane discipline and speeding are quite clear whether we think that they are logical or not. The original post is about a speeding caravanner although as I wrote in another similar topic instances of normal leisure touring caravanners driving in this manner are very rare and if they are stupid enough to tow at a speed quoted as 80mph by the o.p.( who doesn't seem to know what speed he was doing ) then no comments written here or anywhere else would make the slightest difference to their behaviour.
It's a bit of a coincidence that both of these reported incidents posted recently on this forum appear to centre on one or two makes of towing vehicle in similar situations both at '80mph' and with plenty of detail about the offending vehicle but sketchy details about one or two other things.
A bit of flame baiting going on here methinks.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Sorry Mr Moderator.
Speeding is against the law as another member pointed out. I was only pointing out that if senior police and anti speeding people don't practice what they preach so is it any wonder that people diregaurd the law. Police officers being found guilty of speeding is rare rather than the norm and that is well publicised.
http://infowars.com/articles/bb/auto_tracking_fury_as_90k_police_caught_speeding_are_let_off.htm
If we wanted we could travel safely at 70 - 80 mph with caravan in tow towards Calais but an hour or so later out of Dover we would be a danger to all,
My point. On holiday in France we have witnessed UK and other caravans passing at the far higher speeds than we would feel comfortable at and Ros and I have never seen any weaving and bouncing along wildly.
If the preachers from the UK law enforcers feel they are above the law what hope is there for the rest of us if we think and trust that everyone is going to do 50mph towing on an A road.

 

[NigelHutson]

With regards to the IAM advocating breaking speed limits, ANY breach of the law during test should mean a failure.
As Parksy says, the law is the law, whether we like it or not. There are no excuses. I am cdertainly not whiter than white, and would never claim to be (clean licence, yes) but unlike a great number of others to whom the law doesn't seem to apply, I try to behave.
Should you be unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious injury/fatal collision, there are many ways of finding out a vehicle's pre-collision speed, and I for one wouldn't like to have to live with the fact that it was my careless/stupid actions that were even partially the cause, even if I wasn't prosecuted. Where I live there are several mothers who take their children to school (yes, five minutes later, they're back), but the speeds that many of them drive around a housing estate road is almost unbelievable. It would be interesting to see what would happen if one knocked down a "little darling".
Cars are quicker and as technology develops, they get safer and safer, but the problem is always going to be the weak link - the nut holding the wheel (sorry, the driver). From studies, it has been shown that the average reaction time of a driver in the real world (not the stupid Highway Code laboratory test) is between one and two seconds, and some don't react at all (I've seen the aftermath of that a number of times). When travelling even at 60 MPH, in two seconds, a vehicle has travelled 26.82 metres. With a two second reaction time, that is nearly 27 metres before the driver has done anything. At 80 MPH, that becomes nearly 37 metres!
Finally, under certain conditions you can drive at speeds of up to 130 kph just the other side of the Channel. That's the law there. However, once you get to this side, the law says 60 MPH. If you travelled at 70 - 80 with the caravan, I believe that you would be prosecuted (if caught) for exceeding the speed limit for the class of vehicle, not Dangerous Driving.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Moderator Note:
Totally inflammatory post removed.

Damian-Moderator.

 

[Dustydog]

I am not surprised at some of the responses on this thread, there are sections of the community who feel that they have the right to travel at what speed they like even if it is above the limit, and they become most indignant when their illegal actions are pointed out to them. They often try diversion tactics to shift the focus away from them.

Some have even tried to claim the Institute of Advanced Drivers advocates speeding in some circumstances, yet when pressed the Institute states that is never a proposition they make because it is illegal, and It is wholly irresponsible for anyone to advocate an activity that is illegal or dangerous.

Speeding is illegal.

I have been an active member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists since 1982. I can emphatically reassure you the Institute does NOT condone nor recommend anywhere the breaking of any aspects of motoring law.
What the IAM does encourage is advanced observation and correct vehicle positioning. Thus it may be argued , using these skills to their full , a given journey may be completed safely in the shortest possible time but always within the Law.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello OmOnWeelz ,
As Parksy pointed out the original three links you made available clearly the law is applied Police officers.
Your later one suggests there is a discrepancy between the numbers of detected over speed incidents and the number of convictions within the force, but that is not the point of the thread, which relates to us mortals without blue lights and sirens.
In you last but one paragraph, you seem to be automatically equating speeding with excessive speed. These two features are not always linked, but speeding is always illegal, and it may be dangerous depending on the prevailing conditions. Please don't take this to mean I condone speeding if the conditions are good - I don't.
Don’t forget you can also have dangerous conditions that mean a safe speed is well below the notified speed limit.
Ignoring the road conditions, an outfit capable of being driven safely at 60mph, is in itself not going to be dangerous at 35mph but it may be exceeding the speed limit for the section of road.
Speed limits are set for a variety of reasons, and in some cases it difficult to see the justification for low limit on some roads, but equally many country roads are technically derestricted, but a safe speed is well below the legal limit even in good weather.