Touring caravan just setup on seasonal pitch but electric keeps tripping out-site owner not interested

[Mark T]

Hi all

Just set up my Eliddis Avante 840 touring caravan on a seasonal pitch last weekend. My electric keeps tripping but the site owner isn't interested. I literally can't boil the kettle we have with almost everything turned off. I'm buying an awning which will have another tv and various other electrical items but we're going to struggle due to the low capacity. Can I change the fuse myself or what do you suggest?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Changing a fuse will not correct the type of problem you have reported.

Which switch is tripping, is the sites switch on the bollard or your own ones in the caravan? and is the MCB or the RCD that's tripping?

If its the sites MCB, then you are trying to run too many appliances at the same time. Reduce the number of things you have turned on to keep their combined current demand below the sites capacity.

If it's the RCD on the site bollard, then it might be a fault on your ehu cable

If its an MCB in the caravan then you are trying to run too many appliances at the same time. Reduce the number of things you have turned on to keep their combined current demand below the sites capacity.

If its the caravans RCD then that then that indicates that some appliance in the caravan has developed a fault to earth. Or the RCD might have become over sensitive and need replacing.

To try and work out which appliance may be faulty, turn all of them off at their respective control switches. Reset the RCD and systematically turn each of them on then off , and continue around the caravan until you find the appliance that causes the RCD to trip.

For the rest of your holiday simply do not attempt to use the appliance that faulty leave unplugged or switched off.

I sense that you may not be confident with working with electrics, If you cannot establish which appliance is causing the trip, then you really need to arrange to get a caravan electrician to check it out for you.

 

[Mark T]

Changing a fuse will not correct the type of problem you have reported.

Which switch is tripping, is the sites switch on the bollard or your own ones in the caravan? and is the MCB or the RCD that's tripping?

If its the sites MCB, then you are trying to run too many appliances at the same time. Reduce the number of things you have turned on to keep their combined current demand below the sites capacity.

If it's the RCD on the site bollard, then it might be a fault on your ehu cable

If its an MCB in the caravan then you are trying to run too many appliances at the same time. Reduce the number of things you have turned on to keep their combined current demand below the sites capacity.

If its the caravans RCD then that then that indicates that some appliance in the caravan has developed a fault to earth. Or the RCD might have become over sensitive and need replacing.

To try and work out which appliance may be faulty, turn all of them off at their respective control switches. Reset the RCD and systematically turn each of them on then off , and continue around the caravan until you find the appliance that causes the RCD to trip.

For the rest of your holiday simply do not attempt to use the appliance that faulty leave unplugged or switched off.

I sense that you may not be confident with working with electrics, If you cannot establish which appliance is causing the trip, then you really need to arrange to get a caravan electrician to check it out for you.

Thanks for your reply. This is a site problem and we have paid to stay until November.

I have tried multiple appliances and its the trip switch on the site bollard which we connect to. If we have the heating on and turn on the electric cooker ring the electric trips. If we have the water heater on and turn on the microwave, same thing. If we try the kettle with only a couple of led lights it blows.

Its a capacity issue on the site unfortunately.

 

[Fraseb01]

hi, is the site supply a 16 amp or 10 amp ?

 

[Mark T]

hi, is the site supply a 16 amp or 10 amp ?

No idea at this stage but will check when back down on thursday.

What are you thinking?

 

[Fraseb01]

No idea at this stage but will check when back down on thursday.

What are you thinking?

I use a site local to me which is a 10amp supply and it is so sensitive, it will trip with only my heating on and a low wattage kettle.so beware if its a 10 amp supply.

 

[Mr Plodd]

Sounds to me like you have something like a 6 or 10 amp supply and are trying to use 15 (or more) amps worth of current., The clue is the fact that it's not a single item that is causing the trip, but various combinations of fairly high amperage items, each of which is fine if used on its own, but when used in unison the combined draw is too high for the supply.

What you are experiencing is very common on continental campsites where the EHU is only 6 amps, A "standard" 3Kw kettle is enough to "trip" them, hence the availability of low wattage camping kettles!

Your comment "Its a capacity issue on the site unfortunately." Tends to support the low available amperage theory.

Before going any further it is vital you find out exactly what the bollards supply "trip" amperage is. Only then will we know where to start with assisting you. (The amperage might be visible on the trip switch)
.

 

[GaryB]

As per replies on the other forum, if you are using a 3kW kettle it will be an issue if the supply is protected at 10 amps and could also be a problem with 16 amp protection if other appliances are running. A 3kW device will draw just over 12 amps.

 

[Buckman]

Even on 2kw you are using over 8amp to power the water heating and normal heating. Switching on a 3000w kettle draws over 12amp. Together you are drawing over 20amp. No wonder the bollard keeps tripping!

 

[Dustydog]

Have you tried plugging into another site EHU?

 

[RogerL]

Coping with a 6A or 10A pitch supply is just a matter of knowledge and discipline - get to know the Ampage required for each appliance in the caravan and be prepared to turn off long-running items like the heating while you're using short-running items like kettles and microwaves.

One of our favourite sites in the far north of Scotland has pitches at the front with only 6A while the ones further back are 16A - it has sunsets to die for so we always accept the limitation and go on the front.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks for your reply. This is a site problem and we have paid to stay until November.

I have tried multiple appliances and its the trip switch on the site bollard which we connect to. If we have the heating on and turn on the electric cooker ring the electric trips. If we have the water heater on and turn on the microwave, same thing. If we try the kettle with only a couple of led lights it blows.

Its a capacity issue on the site unfortunately.

But which trip on the bollard?. If its a proper connection point:-

It will have two trips (per outlet. One is a Miniature Circuit Breaker (MCB) which should trip if too much current is being drawn by the consumer. This will have a current rating stamped on it which will be the limit of your supply. (Either 6A, 10A or 16A)

The other trip is an Residual Current Device (RCD) or other similar device which protects you from an electric shock injury if any part of the downstream wiring or appliances leaks current to earth.

Depending on which trip is tripping determines what type of problem is arising.

 

[GaryB]

Clamp-ammeters are available cheaply nowadays and will give an idea of how much current you're drawing from the EHU bollard just prior to it tripping. It's surprising how a few pieces of equipment (fridge, charger, etc, etc) add up the amps in the background before you start to use current-hungry devices such as water heaters, cooker rings etc. When you know how much current you're pulling you'll have a better idea if you're exceeding the supply capacity of the EHU bollard or not.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Unfortunately we are remote from the situation and we can only rely on the information you are giving us. So far we do not have enough information to be able to confirm your conclusion that its the sites problem or not.

However if when agreed to take the site, I assume your contract was based on the inclusion of an Electric hook up point, which would include a reasonable assumption that it was was both safe and functional. If you can provide the evidence the supply is faulty (by proving your caravan and hook up cable are up to standard) then you might have grounds to claim breach of contract.

It would be better not to be confrontational though that might be difficult in your position.

 

[Buckman]

As said I doubt of there is an issue with the bollard or even the caravan, but a lot depends on the type of appliance being used as per my earlier post.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

On another forum the OP states he is using a 3kw kettle along with other high demand items.
Probably overloading the available current thus causing the supply to trip.

 

[GaryB]

On another forum the OP states he is using a 3kw kettle along with other high demand items.
Probably overloading the available current thus causing the supply to trip.

Yes, as has been said over there a 3kW kettle draws just over 12 amps so it doesn't take much more running in the background to go over 16 amps. It's surprising how a few background bits of consumption add up!

 

[ProfJohnL]

As said I doubt of there is an issue with the bollard or even the caravan, but a lot depends on the type of appliance being used as per my earlier post.

We are not in a position to make that sort of assumption. Its possible the bollards ECD or MCB may have become over sensitive, either of which could lead to the symptoms described. But we simply do not have the information or opportunity to eliminate any of the possibilities,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Yes, as has been said over there a 3kW kettle draws just over 12 amps so it doesn't take much more running in the background to go over 16 amps. It's surprising how a few background bits of consumption add up!

If that is the case, then its more likely the consumer overloading the supply, but he has not shared with us the appliances he has tries to use at the same time, or their respective power demands. We lack information.

 

[Buckman]

If that is the case, then its more likely the consumer overloading the supply, but he has not shared with us the appliances he has tries to use at the same time, or their respective power demands. We lack information.

On another forum the OP has given more information which is why some of us are in "know".

 

[GaryB]

If that is the case, then its more likely the consumer overloading the supply, but he has not shared with us the appliances he has tries to use at the same time, or their respective power demands. We lack information.

Agreed, but sometimes it takes a bit of nudging down a path of enquiry to help someone realise that their missing information is more important than they think. Having had a caravan with a built in ammeter I was shocked just how many amps "normal stuff" (fridge, charger etc) consume and (in our case) switching a 3kW kettle on would have tripped the EHU bollard. As an engineer specialising in failure-analysis I hope the OP comes back as I hate not knowing what the root cause is on a problem!

 

[Mark T]

As per replies on the other forum, if you are using a 3kW kettle it will be an issue if the supply is protected at 10 amps and could also be a problem with 16 amp protection if other appliances are running. A 3kW device will draw just over 12 amps.

Just ordered an 800 watt kettle and see how that goes lol. When I put up the awning and the other electrical items needed to use it I feel i'm going to have more problems but I'll take it as it comes.

I have bought various 12v items inc charger, tv etc for going off grid but just finding my feet in that regard.

Going away for 4 days in May which will be off grid so trying to prepare for that also. No solar panel either so no idea how that will go?

I'll open another thread maybe to get opinions on that!

Thanks again

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just for information, Caravan 230V ac systems are designed to allow a maximum of 16A to drawn from the caravan sites blue sockets on the bollards.

How much current you are drawing depends on the combined currents of all the appliances you have turned on.

Every 1Amp of current will support 230Watts of power

so a 1kW (1000W) heating element will consume 4.3Amps of current

For a quick rough guide to working out current draw if you assume 1kW uses 4A you not be to far from the real figues.

Don't forget the items like lights, and the fridge, and hidden items like the battery charger and the permanent 12V items which may only sip mains power but together they add up.

When it comes to caravanning, whilst there are many of the home creature comforts, it makes you realise how casual we have become about using electricity, and leaving things turned on or plugged in even when were not using them

Caravanning can help you to become more careful about power usage.

 

[Beardy]

Going away for 4 days in May which will be off grid so trying to prepare for that also. No solar panel either so no idea how that will go?

Does the site you're staying at have battery charging facilities? I would have thought that 4 days on a single battery would be a struggle but I've never tried.

 

[JTQ]

In May it will be lighter so tend not to be in the caravan watching TV, or if the lighting used is halogen rather than LED, no great call for that, both big drains on our batteries, when off EHU.
Plus, space heating ought to be minimal. There the heating energy must be gas, but electrical energy is needed in most cases to enable it.

As said, unless there is a cultural focus on minimising electrical energy use 4 days on our batteries, which hold just over 1/2 kWh of usable energy, will be a challenge. Focus on that really very measly bit of energy a battery holds, you can squeeze a tad more but very quickly wreck, even a good quality leisure battery, should you do so.

You will need to be using gas, fridge is almost certainly going to, as is cooking, and water heating. The latter will have to be used with considerable restraint, only on when really needed, and for small amounts, washing up and light ablutions, simply boil a kettle on gas.
6 or 7 kgs ought to amply get you through 4 days in May, probably way longer.

A solar panel, say a freestanding one of 100Watts, come May, come hopefully nice weather could make the outcome better and the restraints less tedious for all. But be aware it needs redirecting to be pointing the right way three or four times through the day. And standing clear of the ground so its function is not compromised by its base cells sitting in the shades from grass blades.

Then given its nice weather, you could indulge in two hours of evening TV, and the typical previous days drain from the battery be fully replenished by noon, if not earlier. A very different experience and through summer 28-day meets are as doable as a weekend.

[ IMO solar made off grid as different as chalk & cheese, to the pre solar days, where we needed to have a spare battery recharged in the car boot, and driving out to recharge it]