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Tow bar fun and games!

L

LG57-UPS.

Hi all.
Just got back from our first ever trip,with the caravan.
I have a Saab 93 Vector sport anniversary saloon.With a flange type towbar.
On connecting up,and keeping the nose weight,within the limits.The unit is nice and level.

My problem is the jockey wheel fully raised up only barely clears the deck.To make the trip,i took the whole jockey wheel full assembley off,then put it back on to unhitch and raise.

Does this mean i need to buy a complete new swan neck tow bar,or carry on doing the removal for travelling.Or is there another way of curing the problem?
Many thanks
Pierre.
 
just had a quick measure,i make it approx 345mm from centre of tow ball to the road.

Going by the linked post,as you say its a sports suspension issue.
I take it im not breaking any towing laws by removing and refitting the jockey wheel assembly to travel?
 
When I lift my jockey wheel I have to twist it to and fro whilst pulling upwards to make sure it seats right up tight in the A frame.
 
Nice car but I don't think I could be chewed to be taking my jockey wheel on & off every time we went away though ! 🙁
 
otherclive said:
When I lift my jockey wheel I have to twist it to and fro whilst pulling upwards to make sure it seats right up tight in the A frame.
Click to expand...

If you have no other way of 'storing' the jockey wheel (i.e. outside the A-frame) the only other option may be to fit spring assisters to the rear of your car. If it has coil spings (as it likely will) then get some Madd spring assisters, or if you can still get them a similar product from Grayston Engineering. They are quite easy to fit when you understand how to do it but will stop the towball dropping when you impose the hitch load.
One other thought: you are not running the nose weight to high are you?
 
If the outfit looks level it must be to do with the jockey wheel. Are you fully lifting it as Otherclive says, and is it fully wound up? The jockey wheel should come up almost level with the top of the A frame. Is the jockey inside the A frame or on the outside?
 
When fully located up the jockey wheel is almost impossible to see when looking at the A frame. To see it I have to bend down.
 
"The unit is nice and level." The appearance of the caravan being level is not a requirement for it to be at the correct towing height, its just a pleasing aesthetic if it works out that way.

The key to the correct towing height is set out in EU legislation that your car should have been subject to, which requires the LOADED tow ball to settle between 350 and 420 mm vertically from the ground to the geometric centre of the tow ball.

On the basis that you must also have a nose load that presses down on the tow ball, when the caravan is hitched the tow ball will be depressed from its unloaded state.

You tell us your measured height is only 345 mm but you don't tell us if that was the loaded or unloaded height, but in either case it is less than the EU regulations permit.

A number of things may have gone wrong.

Some sports versions of standard cars are not always permitted to tow, You will need to check your VIN weight plate to see if there is Gross Train Weight figure. If there is none, and you tow you are actually breaking the law, as the car will automatically be deemed to be overloaded and thus legally unsafe.

It's possible the a towbar for the standard vehicle has been erroneously fitted fitted to your car, which because of its lowered suspension, the tow ball is lower than it should be.

Others will disagree with my opinion on this point but No vehicle needs spring assisters. They are not a solution to overloading or to correct other faults with the vehicles suspension. On the basis that you do not overload the hitch or the boot, the vehicles suspension is designed to carry the maximum load specified for the vehicle, and that should ensure the tow ball falls into the correct height range. If its not in range, then it could mean you have worn components in the cars suspension and that should be put right rather than masked by adding assisters.

Some more modern cars have ride height sensors that feed into the stability control systems. If you add assisters to these vehicles, the suspension will be sending false readings to the stability control system, which will means it gives incorrect correction outputs. That could make it less stable rather than improving matters.

Caravan manufacturers are fully aware of the tow hitch ride height range, and they will have engineered their jockey wheel design to provide enough ground clearance for normal road conditions. Its possible a previous owner may have fitted a larger jockey wheel, but normally they will retract so the axle of the wheel sits just above the bottom of the a frame.
 
My first caravan was an Avondale Avocet, a 2 berth van that was fairly light that I towed with a 2 litre diesel Mondeo, I can’t remember all of the figures but as it was my first experience of towing I checked all the numbers, nose weight, total weight of the caravan when I loaded it etc etc, I had a professionally fitted Towtrust towbar with twin electrics and so began my towing, first trip out and on a trip of around 150 miles I had several occasions of the jockey wheel grazing the road, I know it happened because there was visible damage to the hard plastic tyre and the A frame plastic cover on arrival, nothing majorly damaged but the evidence was there, I did what the OP said and checked heights of tow ball etc and everything was spot on, I towed the van for the next 5+ years and every time I hitched up I then removed the jockey wheel and chucked it in the boot, on arrival I then refitted it obviously, it must have taken at least a whole 2 minutes to remove and then refit, while a bit of a pain the loss of a couple of minutes of my time was never a problem and I happily did it knowing there was nothing going to hit the road. So if the towball is legal, the suspension is in a roadworthy condition and your weights all add up is it really a big deal to remove and refit the jockey wheel?

BP
 
I will say tho, the jockey wheel on the Avondale was what I believe is called external to the A frame which made it real easy to detach, no idea what the other type would be like to remove.
BP
 
I did try revolving the wheel to different angles ,but still had no joy.I will have another look when i visit storage,to see if its possible some how to pack the wheel outwards from the frame somehow.
 
Im hoping thats not going to be my only option.Its not too much trouble,as the holding clamp,separates on the winder.Im not having to pull it out from underneath,thank God..lol
 
The nose weight,is as low as i can get it.I only have the gas bottles and spare wheel in there.All heavy stuff i have inside across the caravan axle.Being a sports saloon,the car sits low naturally.If i put higher stiffer springs on her she might sit funny,and not handle to good.

I will look into the spring route though.May be the springs off the cars estate version might do the trick.I think you may have the right solution,i just dont want to spoil the cars handling when not towing.
 
The jockey wheel stores on the outside of the A frame.Im sure its right up.But i will have another look,when i visit the storage site
 
The 345mm is with the car ,as she sits on the road unhitched.Thats how a previous poster told me to measure it.I have checked the saab handbook,and it quotes towing figures for my car and train weights etc.The tow bar was on it,when i bought it,i just added a 12S socket to the set up.

The car does have traction control and stability control fitted.Would turning off the aids improve ride height???
When i next visit storage ,i will see where the jockeys axle stores in relation to the A frame.

Towing her as she is,the unit is very stable at all permitted speeds and handles great,no handling problems what so ever.
 
Your experiences are exactly the same as mine.I agree it only takes a couple of minutes to remove and refit.
Im quite happy to carry on doing so,but just wondered as to why,i was having to do so.
 
LG57-UPS. said:
The 345mm is with the car ,as she sits on the road unhitched.Thats how a previous poster told me to measure it.I have checked the saab handbook,and it quotes towing figures for my car and train weights etc.The tow bar was on it,when i bought it,i just added a 12S socket to the set up.

The car does have traction control and stability control fitted.Would turning off the aids improve ride height???
When i next visit storage ,i will see where the jockeys axle stores in relation to the A frame.

Towing her as she is,the unit is very stable at all permitted speeds and handles great,no handling problems what so ever.
Click to expand...

Turning off the traction and stability systems should not affect ride height, so I wouldn't recommend that as teh car may have some trailer controls software that senses when the trailer is hitched. some do, some don't but your handbook should advise.
 
......I have a setup with an easy to remove jockey wheel and I never have it fitted to the cararavan except when I am hitching or unhitching and setting up.
Saves weight on the cararavan.
Makes life harder for potential thieves.
No risk of grounding.
In storage or on site I support A frame weight with a car jack sourced from a carbreakers.

....just removing the jockey wheel is your easiest solution.
 
Hello LG.
I have just read through the last few posts from you, may I suggest you try using the quote tab, so that we see the comment you are replying to;-)
 
ProfJohnL said:
Hello LG.
I have just read through the last few posts from you, may I suggest you try using the quote tab, so that we see the comment you are replying to;-)
Click to expand...

Sorry Prof.
My mistake,im still finding my way on the site.Thanks for putting me right.
Pierre.
 
LG57-UPS. said:
The nose weight,is as low as i can get it.I only have the gas bottles and spare wheel in there.All heavy stuff i have inside across the caravan axle.Being a sports saloon,the car sits low naturally.If i put higher stiffer springs on her she might sit funny,and not handle to good.

I will look into the spring route though.May be the springs off the cars estate version might do the trick.I think you may have the right solution,i just dont want to spoil the cars handling when not towing.
Click to expand...

Have you actually measured your nose load?

You need a:-
Flat (Horizontal) stretch of road,
set of bathroom scales,
A polythene bag to put over the hitch
Tape measure
the caravan step and
some magazines.
car and caravan loaded just as if your going on Holiday ( people and luggage)
Pull up straight on the flat road brakes off. ( the car/caravan won't roll away if its flat.
Measure the height of the hitch
UN hitch the caravan
Put the scale on the step and use the magazines under the scales so the top will support the hitch at the measured height.
make sure tall teh steadies and jokey wheel are off the ground
take the reading on the scales = nose load.

Note proprietary brands of nose load gauges do not allow the height of the hitch to be adjusted which is crucial to get your actual nose load , and in general will be less accurate that your bathroom scales.

If your nose load reading is too high, then you can remove the spare wheel from the front locker or may be add some weight behind the axle.
 
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