at present mondeo tdci is my tug,now changing caravan to double axle,1700 kg,any suggestions for tow car,financially 4 x 4 bit steep,any suggestions would be greatly appreciated,possibly galaxy or similar but open to suggestions thanks
tow car,double axle
- Thread starter alan_5039782
- Start date
Speaking with a guy last week who tows a big Bessacarr with a Kia Sedona. Kerb Weight from www.whatcar.com is 2168kg. I can't vouch personally, but he was well pleased. Someone will be along soon with more thoughts I'm sure.
Val & Frank
Val & Frank
Hi Alan
I'm afraid your best bet is going to be a large 4X4 Or as Frank said a Kia sedona.
Galaxy and its clones are not really heavy enough although you may find that some models are rated to tow that sort of weight.
Toyota Previa max towable 1600kg
Chrysler Grand Voyager max towable 1600kg
There aren't many non 4x4 vehicles capable of towing that weight.
The Sedona is rated pretty good by a number of members of this forum and a used example would not break the bank.
The diesel engine is 2.9 litres, powerful and based on a Mercedes engine.
I'm sure that someone on the forum may come up with further suggestions.
I'm afraid your best bet is going to be a large 4X4 Or as Frank said a Kia sedona.
Galaxy and its clones are not really heavy enough although you may find that some models are rated to tow that sort of weight.
Toyota Previa max towable 1600kg
Chrysler Grand Voyager max towable 1600kg
There aren't many non 4x4 vehicles capable of towing that weight.
The Sedona is rated pretty good by a number of members of this forum and a used example would not break the bank.
The diesel engine is 2.9 litres, powerful and based on a Mercedes engine.
I'm sure that someone on the forum may come up with further suggestions.
I don't know about model differences for the Galaxy and Sharan but the kerb weight of our Seat Alhambra 1.9 TDI 115ps is 1820kg and it is rated to tow 2000kg
Our vans MTPLM is 1710kg if you use the MTPLM this comes out at a ratio of 94%.
We find it perfectly stable - slight wobble when being overtaken by large vehicles when stong sidewinds around (M5 at Somerset levels has this a lot).
I was talking to the owner of the same make of van who gets the same problem and he tows with a Discovery with stiffened suspension.
Our outfit can drop to 40mph on a steep incline like telegraph hill nr Exeter on M5, but our old Shogun 2.5d used to be slower with a slightly lighter van.
When we bought the van we were ready to change the car, but we are now happy it is a stable outfit.
Our vans MTPLM is 1710kg if you use the MTPLM this comes out at a ratio of 94%.
We find it perfectly stable - slight wobble when being overtaken by large vehicles when stong sidewinds around (M5 at Somerset levels has this a lot).
I was talking to the owner of the same make of van who gets the same problem and he tows with a Discovery with stiffened suspension.
Our outfit can drop to 40mph on a steep incline like telegraph hill nr Exeter on M5, but our old Shogun 2.5d used to be slower with a slightly lighter van.
When we bought the van we were ready to change the car, but we are now happy it is a stable outfit.
Garry,
100% with you, our Sharan commes in @ 1775 with no one in it and is like you say We to find it very stable.
A Very good two car and wwe'll find it difficult to relace when it gets replaced next year after all how many cars can you move a 3 seater settee in !!
MH
100% with you, our Sharan commes in @ 1775 with no one in it and is like you say We to find it very stable.
A Very good two car and wwe'll find it difficult to relace when it gets replaced next year after all how many cars can you move a 3 seater settee in !!
MH
My brother-in-law has a sedona and that pulls like a train. Towing the 2000Kgs max is no problem.
I believe the power train is mercedes based?
He gets mid to low 30's to the gallonof diesel towing and a good 45 MPG solo.
For the money they represent good value new and the residual value holds well too.
Steve.
I believe the power train is mercedes based?
He gets mid to low 30's to the gallonof diesel towing and a good 45 MPG solo.
For the money they represent good value new and the residual value holds well too.
Steve.
Hi again Alan
If you want to go down the Galaxy, Alhambra,Sharon route you really need to look at the largest engine size they make - 140ps/150ps.
I am lucky enough to have 2 cars which I can use for towing - a 130ps Citroen C8 and a 138ps Honda CRV. I tow a caravan of mplm 1300kg and I would consider both are just adequate for the job.
Progress is reasonable and it takes a steep hill for me to need to have to change down a gear.
Towing a van 400kg heavier (even if I legally could) would be so slow that I would sooner stay at home. I can't imagine what it must be like with an engine of 115ps.
Don't forget that you would almost be towing the weight of another Galaxy behind you and there really is no substitute for horsepower.
If you want to go down the Galaxy, Alhambra,Sharon route you really need to look at the largest engine size they make - 140ps/150ps.
I am lucky enough to have 2 cars which I can use for towing - a 130ps Citroen C8 and a 138ps Honda CRV. I tow a caravan of mplm 1300kg and I would consider both are just adequate for the job.
Progress is reasonable and it takes a steep hill for me to need to have to change down a gear.
Towing a van 400kg heavier (even if I legally could) would be so slow that I would sooner stay at home. I can't imagine what it must be like with an engine of 115ps.
Don't forget that you would almost be towing the weight of another Galaxy behind you and there really is no substitute for horsepower.
I am surprised at your statement, that you consider 130hp to be borderline for the job of towing a 1300kg caravan. For years I towed the same weight behind a 90hp Vectra. Admittedly, this was anything but an ideal match but I never had any difficulty in keeping up with the traffic, even on hilly stretches. If necessary, I would drop down to 2nd gear and I was then still able to maintain 50mph. The engine never complained even though the rpm's were close to the red line.
Lutz
You make my point for me -
"If necessary, I would drop down to 2nd gear and I was then still able to maintain 50mph. The engine never complained even though the rpm's were close to the red line".
I only need to drop into 4th gear on very steep hills and can maintain 60mph at 2400 rpm. On most hills I can go up in 5th gear no problems. This makes towing more relaxed.
I did tow this van behind a 90 ps diesel Picasso twice but it wasn't for me, just too slow with no power to overtake.
At the end of the day it all depends what a person is happy with - if I was not in a financial position to buy a larger more powerful car I would have had to keep the Picasso and I would have had to get used to making slow progress.
As I said there is no substitute for horsepower - less means slower , more means faster.
You make my point for me -
"If necessary, I would drop down to 2nd gear and I was then still able to maintain 50mph. The engine never complained even though the rpm's were close to the red line".
I only need to drop into 4th gear on very steep hills and can maintain 60mph at 2400 rpm. On most hills I can go up in 5th gear no problems. This makes towing more relaxed.
I did tow this van behind a 90 ps diesel Picasso twice but it wasn't for me, just too slow with no power to overtake.
At the end of the day it all depends what a person is happy with - if I was not in a financial position to buy a larger more powerful car I would have had to keep the Picasso and I would have had to get used to making slow progress.
As I said there is no substitute for horsepower - less means slower , more means faster.
Like most things, it's all relative. I now have a 214hp car to tow the same 1300kg caravan. It has a 4 speed automatic but even that changes down to 3rd when pulling hard uphill at constant speed and even into 2nd when overtaking on similarly steep sections. Would you still consider that to be "just adequate"?
Lutz
No I would consider that to be the right side of perfect.
I would sooner be behind you on a hilly A road towing 1300kg with a 214ps vehicle than someone pulling 1700kg with a 115ps vehicle!
I just think that to tow a 1700kg van needs a vehicle of adequate power and 115hp (purely in my own opinion)is not really sufficient.
I'm sure people are going to disagree with me , perhaps they could wave to me when I pass them going up Telegraph Hill!
No I would consider that to be the right side of perfect.
I would sooner be behind you on a hilly A road towing 1300kg with a 214ps vehicle than someone pulling 1700kg with a 115ps vehicle!
I just think that to tow a 1700kg van needs a vehicle of adequate power and 115hp (purely in my own opinion)is not really sufficient.
I'm sure people are going to disagree with me , perhaps they could wave to me when I pass them going up Telegraph Hill!
Although as the Americans would say 'there ain't no substitute for cubes' torque values can be more relevant when looking at good tow cars, which is where diesels usually score. There used to be a rule of thumb that said you planned on 40 bhp per tonne of total train weight, so an average outfit of 3 tonnes would need anything over 120 bhp to tow. Obviously the more there is the better. My own Volvo has the lower rated engine at 140 bhp but handles the outfit pretty well. Yes, I only get 5th on flat roads but 4th romps away with it to 70 mph, when I am in France. I have looked at re-chipping to 170/180 bhp but the torque won't change that much so I am not sure if it will make a significant difference.
If you want a normal car, there are a few which would tow 1700kg: some of the new 4WD Passat Estates, most E-Class Estates, a few 5-Series, and the new Chrysler 300C Touring. However, none of these can really be bought for below
Hi
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You would have absolutely no problem what so ever with a galaxy / alhambra / sharran at 130 bhp, as most know i used to tow a ace twin axle at over 1700 kgs with my alhambra and have found it to be more than capable of towing up any hills on the british motorways without going any lower than 5th gear. of course it will slow down on hills such as bristol but even my discovery did and more so than the alhambra, i now tow a coachman vip 530/4 with the same car which isnt all that much lighter.
I did buy a module to re-map the alhambra to give me more power, up from 130 bhp to 172 bhp and over 350 pound of torque and although this is truly superb i must admit that i really did not need it as the car was fine before. the vw 1.9 or 2.0 tdi engine and 6 speed manual box is a superb combination and in the alhambra /galaxy makes a very very capable tow car.
I did buy a module to re-map the alhambra to give me more power, up from 130 bhp to 172 bhp and over 350 pound of torque and although this is truly superb i must admit that i really did not need it as the car was fine before. the vw 1.9 or 2.0 tdi engine and 6 speed manual box is a superb combination and in the alhambra /galaxy makes a very very capable tow car.
Apologies for double post but posted in the wrong place
Cliff
Torque is more important than outright BHP when towing.
The VW PD 115PS engine used in my Alhambra delivers 310 nM at 1900rpm the 2.8 V6 in the same car gives 270 nM at 3200rpm.
If I had a complaint to make about the cars towing ability it would involve slippery camp sites and FWD, the only answer to that is a 4x4 like our old Shogun, but on the road in 99.9% of road conditions the Alhambra has proved to be a better tow car than that was.
If I changed it would be to another 4X4 but only because we do all year round green field rallies (we have only had to request a tow off once in 2 years with the Alhambra), it would be nothing to do with the vehicle not having enough grunt.
Most of the time I am towing I use fifth and sixth gears it requires a hill to drop into fourth and Telegraph hill happens to be one of the few that requires that.
I believe I was incorrect in referring to this hill as being on the M5, the reason the motorway stops before this is because the hills on the A380 and A38 are to steep for the roads to be classed as motorways.
I have rarely seen any caravan outfit exceeding 50 mph up telegraph hill - 40 mph is not slow and I am sure I could have gone faster if I had wanted to make the engine work harder, it is a very long steep hill!.
Cliff
Torque is more important than outright BHP when towing.
The VW PD 115PS engine used in my Alhambra delivers 310 nM at 1900rpm the 2.8 V6 in the same car gives 270 nM at 3200rpm.
If I had a complaint to make about the cars towing ability it would involve slippery camp sites and FWD, the only answer to that is a 4x4 like our old Shogun, but on the road in 99.9% of road conditions the Alhambra has proved to be a better tow car than that was.
If I changed it would be to another 4X4 but only because we do all year round green field rallies (we have only had to request a tow off once in 2 years with the Alhambra), it would be nothing to do with the vehicle not having enough grunt.
Most of the time I am towing I use fifth and sixth gears it requires a hill to drop into fourth and Telegraph hill happens to be one of the few that requires that.
I believe I was incorrect in referring to this hill as being on the M5, the reason the motorway stops before this is because the hills on the A380 and A38 are to steep for the roads to be classed as motorways.
I have rarely seen any caravan outfit exceeding 50 mph up telegraph hill - 40 mph is not slow and I am sure I could have gone faster if I had wanted to make the engine work harder, it is a very long steep hill!.
Garry
I agree with you that torque delivered low down the rev range is important when towing.
My initial comment that the Galaxy and its clones are a little on the light side for a 1700kg van is because the ratio between the car and van is in the mid 90% area.
I would tend to look for a vehicle with a tad more weight in it to bring the ratio down a bit and give a bit more of a safety factor.
As for engine size, knowing that the vehicle is going to pull a 1700kg caravan why would one choose a 115 ps diesel engine when you could buy the 130ps diesel or 150ps diesel engine in the same vehicle?
If as Alan said he needs to buy another tow vehicle why would he choose the smaller engine model? To me that would not be a logical decision. Perhaps purely on a cost basis it may have some merit but in my opinion the extra spent on the larger engine variant would be beneficial.
I consider the Galaxy / Alhambra / Sharan to be an excellent vehicle but it would not be my 1st choice for a caravan of this weight.
I agree with you that torque delivered low down the rev range is important when towing.
My initial comment that the Galaxy and its clones are a little on the light side for a 1700kg van is because the ratio between the car and van is in the mid 90% area.
I would tend to look for a vehicle with a tad more weight in it to bring the ratio down a bit and give a bit more of a safety factor.
As for engine size, knowing that the vehicle is going to pull a 1700kg caravan why would one choose a 115 ps diesel engine when you could buy the 130ps diesel or 150ps diesel engine in the same vehicle?
If as Alan said he needs to buy another tow vehicle why would he choose the smaller engine model? To me that would not be a logical decision. Perhaps purely on a cost basis it may have some merit but in my opinion the extra spent on the larger engine variant would be beneficial.
I consider the Galaxy / Alhambra / Sharan to be an excellent vehicle but it would not be my 1st choice for a caravan of this weight.
I would agree that more power would be beneficial in some circumstances, I would go for more power if I changed the car but I find that this outfit is more than brisk in most road conditions.
I had the impression that you were comparing a 115 PS diesel to a 115PS petrol, in reality there is no comparison when towing particularly with the excellent VW PD engine.
I did point out that to get 94% I had used the unladen kerbweight of the car and the fully laden MTPLM of the van - in practice we are actually less than 85% and of course that ratio makes no allowance for modern chassis, stabilisers or the van being twin axle.
I acknowledge that if I had had this van before buying the car rather than the other way round I would not have thought it a workable combination - however it is a very capable combination.
I had the impression that you were comparing a 115 PS diesel to a 115PS petrol, in reality there is no comparison when towing particularly with the excellent VW PD engine.
I did point out that to get 94% I had used the unladen kerbweight of the car and the fully laden MTPLM of the van - in practice we are actually less than 85% and of course that ratio makes no allowance for modern chassis, stabilisers or the van being twin axle.
I acknowledge that if I had had this van before buying the car rather than the other way round I would not have thought it a workable combination - however it is a very capable combination.
I tow a senator carolina mplm 1720kg with a galaxy 2.8 v6
its a bit thirsty but pulls the caravan with ease even up hill it will accelerate and as far as stability goes it is rock solid.
its a bit thirsty but pulls the caravan with ease even up hill it will accelerate and as far as stability goes it is rock solid.
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