Tow Car Info / Advice

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jonny,

Its been a few day since I reviewed this thread, and quite a lot has been added since then. You take me to task for my comments: Incidentally, I don't take you’re your comments to be rude or offensive, as they have been written in a civil manner. - no ill feelings.

I may be old school, but that does not necessarily make what I have written wrong. In fact my reference to BHP per tonne was used to show how the traditional suggestion of 40BHP per Ton is no longer valid when considering modern diesels because of the different power /torque curves they have. So in that context it is not irrelevant.

Let me be clear, please check the first line of my last post I referred to "Tuning Modules", not remaps. The use of tuning modules is not restricted to diesel engines so my comment was of a more general nature, and the particular issues I raised were not definitive but indicative as defined by my use of the words “there is usually”

My brother in law is a highly qualified and time served automobile engineer running his own non-franchised garage. He refuses to recommend or fit any of these after market tuning modules, as his own records show they are frequently the source of problems further down the line.

It is highly unlikely that an independent company is able to make an engine more efficient simply by fitting a tuning module or even a remap. As a consequence for every gain, there is a trade off somewhere else. Your comment regarding “lighter throttle” may yield improved mpg, but the consequence is less performance. The converse is also true. Incidentally lighter throttle usage is a suggested manual method used by the IAM to maximise MPG. Who needs a remap?

 

[DerektheSecond]

Hello Jonny,
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Its been a few day since I reviewed this thread, and quite a lot has been added since then. You take me to task for my comments: Incidentally, I don't take you’re your comments to be rude or offensive, as they have been written in a civil manner. - no ill feelings.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
I may be old school, but that does not necessarily make what I have written wrong. In fact my reference to BHP per tonne was used to show how the traditional suggestion of 40BHP per Ton is no longer valid when considering modern diesels because of the different power /torque curves they have. So in that context it is not irrelevant.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Let me be clear, please check the first line of my last post I referred to "Tuning Modules", not remaps. The use of tuning modules is not restricted to diesel engines so my comment was of a more general nature, and the particular issues I raised were not definitive but indicative as defined by my use of the words “there is usually”
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
My brother in law is a highly qualified and time served automobile engineer running his own non-franchised garage. He refuses to recommend or fit any of these after market tuning modules, as his own records show they are frequently the source of problems further down the line.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
It is highly unlikely that an independent company is able to make an engine more efficient simply by fitting a tuning module or even a remap. As a consequence for every gain, there is a trade off somewhere else. Your comment regarding “lighter throttle” may yield improved mpg, but the consequence is less performance. The converse is also true. Incidentally lighter throttle usage is a suggested manual method used by the IAM to maximise MPG. Who needs a remap?

Hi John , in some cases the "remap" or whatever can bring the engine back up to the power etc it was originally designed for, some manufacturers design an engine for a complete range of models, for example the I think Golf Mk 5 was de tuned for the british market, AMG also detune their engines India and Japan have caps on the HP by agreement with the manufacturers.
In the case of motorcycles , which obviously isnt relevent to this thread its more cut and dried the majority of low to mid range cycles are restricted due to licence restrictions,originally the restriction was collar in the air intake or exhaust but as the engines developed it was by electronic means.
But as you said an independant company I wouldnt think would be able to better the engines potential unless the potential was already there, If not then as you said there would be trade off in relation to component wear etc a bit like trying to kid a 1600cc V4 engine that its a 3500cc V8.

 

[JonnyG]

Thank you seth for the data, although i did ask for increments of 250 rpm, and the was a reason for that.I keep saying repeatedly about the MAX perimeters not being exceeded so lets use your figurers as an example. lets asume the standard figurers against the tuned ones. 1250 rpm boost .75bar tunned 1.0 bar. 1500rpm 1.5 bar tuned 1.75bar 1750rpm 1.9 bar tuned 2.2 bar 2000rpm 2.3 tuned 2.4 bar.. 2500rpm 2.0 bar tuned 2.4 bar 3000rpm 2.0bar tuned 2.4 bar 3500 rpm ect .
The tuned figurers may well be raised but are still inside the MAX perimeters of 2.4bar operational max!
The same thing applies to your injectors there max running terms are not exceeded in the very same way..........

Now as to running rich! As nobody has challenged my statement concerning how a diesel actually runs with an EXCESS OF AIR, the clue being in the word excess!!!!!!!! even a seven year old should understand that one, then if you use that excess firstly what do you get? more power for free, and i think its a little late in the debate to bring in tree hunging quotations to counter this fact.

Now some are still posting to this thread with regards petrol engines, remember these diesel engines have forced induction so one should only be using quotes that actually apply to forced induction engines and diesels specifically.
I didn't want to get into a debate with regards why outside sources can or cannot better the standard set up, put as mentioned different countries use poorer fuels and have tighter emission laws so the ECU is set to meet these so is indeed a compromise to meet whatever is required
Add to this the fact that 1 ecu fits all [same spec car that is]and as good as tolerances are, two cars can and will vary, so there is plenty of room to tune a car to a degree without effecting anything major. WHEN WE ARE TALKING TURBOCHARGED DIESEL ENGINES.

I gave a link earlier, so use it before replying a tuning module cannot adjust anything but fuel pressure, again old school rubbish!!!!!!!!! and right from the off set i said if you buy cheap e bay rubbish that's what you get.

"MPG" This also can be improved, although if you have more power available and use it, then there is that argument to counter it true, but again given that its all about torque and a car runs at it best in its max torque range, and given that tunning usually improves this, then again sticking to that range can and will give improments when cruising and light throttle or not, you will found a decent remap or tunning module will give better mpg in this range and cruising against a standard set up

I would have thought the forum is full of users who are responsible enough and intelligent enough to use the resources at their finger tips,and again at no point do I advocate tuning or not tuning a diesel engine, but the facts are these.
Unlike the 80s, unlike petrol engines of the past anyway, [as i do not know what advances they have had over the last 2 decades]

forced induction diesels, have plenty of excess air, and reputable tuners use this and still run the engine INSIDE THE MAX SET PERIMETERS that a turbo and the injectors can run to! END

 

[xtrailman]

forced induction diesels, have plenty of excess air, and reputable tuners use this and still run the engine INSIDE THE MAX SET PERIMETERS that a turbo and the injectors can run to! END
Jg
So why hasn't the manufacturer already done this?
Just interested, not a wind up.

 

[JonnyG]

forced induction diesels, have plenty of excess air, and reputable tuners use this and still run the engine INSIDE THE MAX SET PERIMETERS that a turbo and the injectors can run to! END
Jg
So why hasn't the manufacturer already done this?
Just interested, not a wind up.

Emission would be the first thing that comes to mind, as i stated earlier, then cetene ratings [poorer diesel fuel] Now dont get emissions and efficiently mixed up, our engines can still meet these even when slighly tunned but in other parts of the world poorer fuuel maybe an issue or lower emmision rules could be an issue.also Diesel have cats and EGR valves, [Emissions mainly] but as I said earlier not condoning this, but pointing out, these both restrict the efficiency of an engine. A cat is not legally needed here in the UK on diesels to meet the MOT smoke test mainly because the test is so old 1986 i think, so just removing your cat would release a few horses depending on the cat.[diesel engines not petrol as they wont pass an mot without one] Egr valves too have their downside on the car performance[no doubt somebody will mention it lowers engine temp!] another play on words, as the this is closed when you give the car some humph and isnt that when the engine produces the heat
I don't advocate tuning, its a personal thing but again without going overboard on the techie or straying too far away from why I posted in the first place, its because some still give the appearance that tuning or touching an engine in any way what so ever is a no no.
"I dont want to be rude JohnnyG but .....
As for tuning boxes ask the supplier to guaruntee that there will be no adverse damage to the engine and if there is will they replace the engine.... blink and he will disappear into the distance". clearly you have never asked.!
Its not nor is it a case that it always invalidates you warranty, plenty of remaps are offered that don't, and as i said earlier even some dealers with do it with full car manufacturers warranty intact, most bona fide tuners also give garrentees, so whoever wrote the qouted text, is badly mis informed
OK so its not wide spread but it is becoming more so.S
Sure you will here horror stories but you will hear many many more horror stories regarding standard cars [not tuned] with broken turbo's chocalate injectors broken DMFs even blown engine cuzz the ECU went up the sprout! So i recent posts being made that use this solely to have a go at tunning when its just as widespread in standard cars.

 

[xtrailman]

forced induction diesels, have plenty of excess air, and reputable tuners use this and still run the engine INSIDE THE MAX SET PERIMETERS that a turbo and the injectors can run to! END
Jg
So why hasn't the manufacturer already done this?
Just interested, not a wind up.

Emission would be the first thing that comes to mind, as i stated earlier, then cetene ratings [poorer diesel fuel] Now dont get emissions and efficiently mixed up, our engines can still meet these even when slighly tunned but in other parts of the world poorer fuuel maybe an issue or lower emmision rules could be an issue.also Diesel have cats and EGR valves, [Emissions mainly] but as I said earlier not condoning this, but pointing out, these both restrict the efficiency of an engine. A cat is not legally needed here in the UK on diesels to meet the MOT smoke test mainly because the test is so old 1986 i think, so just removing your cat would release a few horses depending on the cat.[diesel engines not petrol as they wont pass an mot without one] Egr valves too have their downside on the car performance[no doubt somebody will mention it lowers engine temp!] another play on words, as the this is closed when you give the car some humph and isnt that when the engine produces the heat
I don't advocate tuning, its a personal thing but again without going overboard on the techie or straying too far away from why I posted in the first place, its because some still give the appearance that tuning or touching an engine in any way what so ever is a no no.
"I dont want to be rude JohnnyG but .....
As for tuning boxes ask the supplier to guaruntee that there will be no adverse damage to the engine and if there is will they replace the engine.... blink and he will disappear into the distance". clearly you have never asked.!
Its not nor is it a case that it always invalidates you warranty, plenty of remaps are offered that don't, and as i said earlier even some dealers with do it with full car manufacturers warranty intact, most bona fide tuners also give garrentees, so whoever wrote the qouted text, is badly mis informed
OK so its not wide spread but it is becoming more so.S
Sure you will here horror stories but you will hear many many more horror stories regarding standard cars [not tuned] with broken turbo's chocalate injectors broken DMFs even blown engine cuzz the ECU went up the sprout! So i recent posts being made that use this solely to have a go at tunning when its just as widespread in standard cars.

Interesting john.
I don't know how they have done it, but the revised xtrail 171bhp, has the same power and torque, BUT with improved economy, 3mpg i think, AND lower emissions.
Anyone know how they have done it?

 

[JonnyG]

"I don't know how they have done it, but the revised xtrail 171bhp, has the same power and torque, BUT with improved economy, 3mpg i think, AND lower emissions.
Anyone know how they have done it?"

I am sure someone can give you a techie response, and sometimes differing parts newer turbo or intercooler better maps and injectors ect ect, but my old Alfa 2.4 jtd which had 136bhp had the same CO2 readings as the 2.4 140bhp and 150 bhp versions, and the mjet version which had 175bhp also had a co2 ratingthe same, so . the VW Sharon, galaxy,Alhambra came with a 1.9tdi engine with versions of 115 130 and indeed 150 bhp, again all had similar CO2 [mpg] in fact the 130 bhp is slightly better on urban cycle than the 115 bhp version!.
There is a fraction of a difference between the 2.0 tdci mondeo engines [upto 2007] and the biggar more powerfull 2.2 version. upto 2007 fords own engine] 130 bhp against 152bhp
I think what I am trying to say Ray, is those that think more power means more fuel, are talking about at the extremes of a rev range [thrashing] or max speed. Under more normal driving conditions it is not always true to say a more powerful version of the same engine uses more fuel......and that is also why many tuners claim [and rightly] they can indeed improve a cars MPG, whilst giving more power.....

 

[xtrailman]

Yes john
I always think you need to get the correct engine for the car, a underpowered engine, works harder, gives less performance, and poor economy.

 

[Philspadders]

Johnny, you keep going back to remaps yet the op was asking about tuning boxes.

I would like to ask what qualifies you, professionaly ( Mied, IEng or other professional body to make the statements you do... or do you sell fit and tuning boxes?

Ps the perimiter is the outside line of an object, parameter is the operating condition limits

Would you guarantee my engine for the next , lets say 3 years , from any damage,such as blown seals, damaged injectors,damage to the pump, bent conrods due to over compression,burned valves, a damaged cat due to neat fuel over spill etc. Would you also guarantee that i will get increased torque, lower emissions and improved mpg. A lot of the tuning box suppliers state and increase of between 5 and 15%, so lets split it, 10% increase across the board. If i dont get it you remove the tuning box, refund all the money and if any damage is caused repair / replace at your cost.

I cant find one remapper or box supplier that offers any guarantee.

There are also many in instances of damaged clutches, blown turbos and many instances of diesels kicking out huge amounts of black smoke due to over fueling.

 

[JonnyG]

Johnny, you keep going back to remaps yet the op was asking about tuning boxes. I would like to ask what qualifies you, professionaly ( Mied, IEng or other professional body to make the statements you do... or do you sell fit and tuning boxes? Ps the perimiter is the outside line of an object, parameter is the operating condition limits Would you guarantee my engine for the next , lets say 3 years , from any damage,such as blown seals, damaged injectors,damage to the pump, bent conrods due to over compression,burned valves, a damaged cat due to neat fuel over spill etc. Would you also guarantee that i will get increased torque, lower emissions and improved mpg. A lot of the tuning box suppliers state and increase of between 5 and 15%, so lets split it, 10% increase across the board. If i dont get it you remove the tuning box, refund all the money and if any damage is caused repair / replace at your cost. I cant find one remapper or box supplier that offers any guarantee. There are also many in instances of damaged clutches, blown turbos and many instances of diesels kicking out huge amounts of black smoke due to over fueling.

hi, right firstly i do not sell anything, and what qualifies me? I'm a caravanner, do I need any other qualifications? Right most of these tuning boxes actually claim far more than 5 to 15%, so i will assume we have again stepped over into non turbo diesel and into petrol land, but what I would add is quite possibly 10 to 15% would be a good idea for even our turbo diesels as some of the claimed bhp figurers that some claim are dangerous even if they could actually achieve them without trickery.
I don't think anybody bar maybe in-house jobs say bmw OR Mercedes would give you a warranty that went as far a three years but then, how many manufacturers warranties actually cover every single item for that long anyway? I mean clutches are wear items so you should check your own normal warranty for things like clutches and indeed DMFs as not everyone would cover them outside a year or 30k or whatever mileage. So to ask a tuner to cover parts for 3 years that even your manufacturers don't cover is asking alot.
Alot of tuning boxes meet TUV standards which should mean something or rather prove not all tuning boxes are cheap resistors that blow your car up, and indeed all electrical items sold in the UK are indeed warranted anyway, but that's a different story, so i find it strange that you should say otherwise.

I did like your list of possible problems, and I didn't realise just how many cars have been tuned if, that is that these problems you mention are all down to tuning,and never occur on standard cars. makes you wonder how garages keep in business, but then and i seem to need to repeat myself [sorry] DMFs issues seem ripe as do injectors. in standard cars.
"burnt valves" again back to petrol engines! "over compression" i believe there are cases of injector seals leaking badly on standard cars that have lead to compression lock up and indeed bent valves,and there are other instances but without doing a google it slips my mind but if you care to google i am sure you will find them. "damaged cat due to neat fuel overfill" that one is actually funny err petrol again, or you should have noticed the engine lock and bend all your con rods first. but hey look on the bright side if the cat was killed a straight through pipe is much cheaper and you get a more responsive engine and a few extra horse free.
No I am not an engineer.nor a seller.

 

[seth1]

JonnyG i will give you some credit at least you admit your not an engineer,so all what you preach is actually of a google seach,impressive.Did you used to be "G" then Me,then JonnyG?
Ive got one thing to add to this crap,which is brillant and shows how much tuners understand compression ignition engines.Its a fact only known if you spend your life around commonrail fuel systems,when we start speaking about injector delievery rates,which the tuning wanna be's love,whether its soliniod or piezo actuated injectors,THE FLOW RATE IS ADJUSTABLE within the injector body.By a simple adjustment it will "flow " another 25cc's of diesel fuel or injector tester fluid.
Nice trick JonnyG,remove the DPF,dont worry to much about breaking the law,or the fact the emission rating has changed,or the backpressure has changed,leading to turbo overspeeds.
I dont seem to remember you answering any of my questions yet?Not spent to much time on the dyno this month eh?

 

[Mikey_74]

Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you, on page 1 I was asked about the make, sadly until I get home tonight I can't remember, I know it's Italion and should have been £300 I got it off a friend of a friend and paid £100 for it, I fitted it myself, really simple, like has been stated they simply plug into the common rail fuel pressure sensor, they're crude but do seem to work, I know people say you don't get anything for nothing but I can honestly say if you drive normally then you do, if you accelerate normally then my economy has gone from around 38mpg to around the 43/44mpg.
Solo driving there doesn't seem to be much difference in how the car performs, yes it's slightly nippier off the mark but when you drive whales of 4x4's you don't expect a racing car, but if you drive the car hard, then all you seem to do is throw lots of smoke out the back end and you can watch your fuel gauge go down alarmingly.
Put the caravan on the back and the module really does make it's presence felt, it really is superb, everything the car was lacking before is now there, the car still doesn't set the world alight, but the extra torque is more than welcome, and on my module it is torque that seems to be generated and thankfully not that much extra BHP,(useless for towing) towing the van the car is again better on fuel than without the module and also it climbs hills a lot easier, biggest thing I noticed was spending far less time in 4th and staying comfortably in 5th.
As for the extra pressure the fuel system is put under I really can't comment, on how the car sounds or behaves, well maybe when the engine is very cold maybe with the module on it's a little lumpier, but other than that no difference, oh well yes actualy the cruise control is smoother. The Rover 75 Diesel I had before this car was remapped, that was fantastic, I'd recommend remapping to anyone, I had it done and kept the car for 4years and did 110k miles trouble free, all I can say about the tuning module is so far so good, 6 months and 10k miles all ok, if you ask me which is better remap verses tuning module then that's easy, remap every time!!!

 

[JonnyG]

hi midsmikey. hope all is well, I would be a little concerned if indeed the box is making you belch out black smoke at anything other than when you load the engine, in otherwords lowish revs 1250-1500 rpm and only for a quick second as the turbo plays catch up.
Not trying to alarm you, but as its second hand, nothing stays good forever, and although it might not do any real damge overnight all that excess black soot will be coating the Erg valve and inlet tract and getting down into your turbo too, which isnt really a good idea. be carefull.

 

[JonnyG]

JonnyG i will give you some credit at least you admit your not an engineer,so all what you preach is actually of a google seach,impressive.Did you used to be "G" then Me,then JonnyG?
Ive got one thing to add to this crap,which is brillant and shows how much tuners understand compression ignition engines.Its a fact only known if you spend your life around commonrail fuel systems,when we start speaking about injector delievery rates,which the tuning wanna be's love,whether its soliniod or piezo actuated injectors,THE FLOW RATE IS ADJUSTABLE within the injector body.By a simple adjustment it will "flow " another 25cc's of diesel fuel or injector tester fluid.
Nice trick JonnyG,remove the DPF,dont worry to much about breaking the law,or the fact the emission rating has changed,or the backpressure has changed,leading to turbo overspeeds.
I dont seem to remember you answering any of my questions yet?Not spent to much time on the dyno this month eh?

hi seth, err with regards to who i am or what i know, lets make this clear shall we, are you not Seth, who in the past, declared MAFs are not problematic, nor are Egr valves? and you were most certain than you had never herd that DMFs too were troublesome!in cars. every timeall you did was to quote commercial stats ie lorries, indeed the only reference you have given here to your experience of tunning was a 0.5 rise in turbo pressure on a lorry!
You have been harping on about your experiences on this subject? but your experiences by your own answers are mainly commercial vehicles and your data is out of a book! none of this makes you an authority on tuning.
Nobody has mention removing a dpf! Nobody I did mention removing a normal cat! which is not against the law and does not effect your MOT test and i also mentioned in that very post I wasn't going to get involved in the ins and out of emission! god, it has taken you almost a week to respond to that certain part of a post even though you have posted several responses to me in the meantime!I starting to think you are goggling but very slowly
. A DPF is something relatively new only now becoming standardised across the car range since2007/8ish although it has been available earlier than that As for the "back pressure issues"! Again its taken you a long time to get around to this,and again for someone who is trying to make out they are an authority on tuning, let me reply with this.
Using the VW tdi as a reference, this being the most used tuned turbo diesel car ever, the concensous is that if you take the cat off , one should only do so if you actually REMAP OR FIT A TUNING BOX! which is funnily enough the opposite of what you are saying. LOL , and to imagine you an expert not knowing that, or maybe its simply you have never come across A vw tdi in you tuning experience time! must be hard to miss the most tunned of all engines hey!
"Turbo over speeding"
Am I the only one getting bored now another thing that never made your original list of serious problems and indeed most cases of turbo over speeding are due to Air leaks! which lead to the MAP and MAF sensors becoming somewhat confused and again you try to use something that occurs also in standard engines as something solely to do the tuning!

I have also noticed not just back street garages do tuning these days but Bosch specialists and car dealers, are we now to assume they too talk crap?are you now calling your fellow mechanics ignorant too!
Warranty direct have a list of the top ten most occurring faults/breakdowns,on a standard car it makes good reading i am pretty sure you didn't read it, but everything you have tried to lay blame on a remap is in that list high up!
I suppose in another week after doing a little more research, you might contradict some of the other statements I have made too!

What is my experience then seth 23ishyears, 23ish years till 2005 in and around racing firstly competing bikes cars, then setting up then for pleasure racing again.from club man to inter marque to 24 hours racing [not always in the seat though and indeed we achieve a class second at Silverstone back in 05 using a 2.4 mjet 156.!!!!!!!!! the rain helped though as we beat a few descent petrols too and do you know what the car didn't go bang, and the engine? I have it in my car now all 250 bhp of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sitting in my garage.
Sorry Seth i thought this thread was done and finished but I see you need time to dig up more stuff, let me just say this is defiantly my last post on this subject where responding to you is concerned feel free to write.......... whatever rebuff

I am also glad [really]to see that so much of the "crap"i have written as yet is still unchallenged by "you expert opinion" which is good, and i thank you,

I have also deleted a large chunk of this post, as its Xmas and i am reminded to be extra nice, so have a good xmas..

 

[xtrailman]

Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you, on page 1 I was asked about the make, sadly until I get home tonight I can't remember, I know it's Italion and should have been £300 I got it off a friend of a friend and paid £100 for it, I fitted it myself, really simple, like has been stated they simply plug into the common rail fuel pressure sensor, they're crude but do seem to work, I know people say you don't get anything for nothing but I can honestly say if you drive normally then you do, if you accelerate normally then my economy has gone from around 38mpg to around the 43/44mpg.
Solo driving there doesn't seem to be much difference in how the car performs, yes it's slightly nippier off the mark but when you drive whales of 4x4's you don't expect a racing car, but if you drive the car hard, then all you seem to do is throw lots of smoke out the back end and you can watch your fuel gauge go down alarmingly.
Put the caravan on the back and the module really does make it's presence felt, it really is superb, everything the car was lacking before is now there, the car still doesn't set the world alight, but the extra torque is more than welcome, and on my module it is torque that seems to be generated and thankfully not that much extra BHP,(useless for towing) towing the van the car is again better on fuel than without the module and also it climbs hills a lot easier, biggest thing I noticed was spending far less time in 4th and staying comfortably in 5th.
As for the extra pressure the fuel system is put under I really can't comment, on how the car sounds or behaves, well maybe when the engine is very cold maybe with the module on it's a little lumpier, but other than that no difference, oh well yes actualy the cruise control is smoother. The Rover 75 Diesel I had before this car was remapped, that was fantastic, I'd recommend remapping to anyone, I had it done and kept the car for 4years and did 110k miles trouble free, all I can say about the tuning module is so far so good, 6 months and 10k miles all ok, if you ask me which is better remap verses tuning module then that's easy, remap every time!!!

Mikey
What were the gains on your Rover remap?
Torque, bhp, consumption?

 

[Mikey_74]

Hi Ray, I never had my Rover on the rolling road, but the guy who remapped it for me used to work for Super chips I think it was and used to write most of the software himself for them, the program he used was a capon copy of one that he'd used on a similar Rover to mine the month before that had been on the Rollers, my car originaly was the 116ps model, the program he remapped it was for approx 145Bhp and around 250lb torque, what a difference, the car drove like how I imagined it was supposed to, if I was playing with it I could quite easily get it to start wheel spinning in 3rd gear, it used to pull the caravan like a steam train, never ever left me wanting more power although sometimes I could have done with more grip!!
As for economy I used to get around 33 around town and on a run it used to do over 60mpg, sadly I never quite got the 61 that I set my targets to but for a car of it's size it was good enough on fuel for me, and with the van on the back I still managed around 32/35 mpg, depending on which way the wind was blowing, and these figures were calculating it on a brim to brim basis not using the fuel computer.
If you have a Rover 75 or a Zt Ray with that engine in, I couldn't recomend a remap highly enough, as for reliability, I had the car remapped at 118k miles, when I sold the car it was showing just over 230k miles, I forget the exact figures, never did it ever let me down, but it did put many smiles on my face

 

[Mikey_74]

Thanks for the warning Johny G, the egr valve is something that I take off and clean ever year at the start of seaon, it can be quite a shock how these fill up with soot, it'll be interesting to see what mine is like when I take it off in the spring as this will be the 1st time it's been off since fitting the tuning module, the engine only smokes when I drive it hard, and normally it can only be seen when the car behind has his headlights on, so it's difficult ti say how much the car smokes in these conditions, all I know is it's more than my remapped Rover used to

 

[xtrailman]

Thanks mike
I don't think i have ever read a adverse comment from OWNERS of the rover 75.
If someone was to ask me what power to aim for in a tow car to 1700kg, my answer would be 150 bhp, 250 lb/ft. with the max torque available from 1200 to 3000 rpm, if possible.
Very close to your figures.
Oh and with a 7 speed gear box, to give a very low first gear.

 

[seth1]

Jonny G lets get this straight,why do you not answer my questions but i seem to answer yours,is it because you can,t?
From the beginning of this thread i never professed to be more of an authority on tuning than yourself,i gave examples of what i had come across on engines fitted with tuning boxs.Dead simple.For some strange reason it hit a nerve with you.
I have offered to so people including you FSP files and calibration files because of the doubt by yourself,you,ve not replied on that.
You make point of my late replies,as if it matters,some of us have better things to do after 12hours in the "office" i.e relaxing.
You have a habit of mixing my posts up due to the fact other people post in between this should not be a problem to the average person.Most of the time im responding to your posts,which you dont directly do to mine.
I would not class a bosch dealership as "back street".In my experiance and this is just mine,the two tuning companys ive met,who have sent reprosentives to me did not have any idea of a diesel engine.They are both national,very well known,but did know how to up load files in to ECU,s.I came to this conclusion after i asked a few simple questions.
What is good for a racing engine may not be good for a road engine,remember our vehicles pull caravans.This actually shows how good 2.4jtds are.You were achieving 250 bhp,we were achieving 1300bhp out of 11 litres,3 years ago,admittedly a much modifed engine,with parts from the USA,but it would be a waste of time on the road and totally unusable.
I dont find your last paragraph fitting really,we are all entitled to an opinion,my post was only started with what we,d seen through service,which you for some reason cant accept.I hope you and also everyone else have an enjoyable xmas.