TOW CAR MATCH HELP!!!

[LOUISE_374359197]

Good Evening,

We are looking to buy or 1st caravan later this year. We are also considering a change of car in the near future but we were told by a caravan salesman that our current car - '04 Mondeo 2.0tdci 6 speed was up to towing a Swift Charisma 540 (mtplm 1490 - miro 1273), after lookin on the forums on here i saw "what tow car" recommend so, driven mainly by curiosity i "searched" tow cars, our current car was not recommended? do i assume that it is not suitable? Our 1st choice for a change of car was to a Mondeo 2.2st tdci Estate, this does come up as a recommended tow car, and, gives a ratio of 80% however if you do an "outfit match" on the website it gives a different ratio of 91%, not ideal i believe for 1st time caravanners?

Does anyone know why the same website gives different ratio's for the same "outfit"??

 

[Happy-Lappy]

Louise,

The reason WhatTowcar.com are giving you a different weight ratio, is because the Mondeo 2.2st Estate is heavier than the 2.0tdci Saloon,

best regards, Martin

 

[LOUISE_374359197]

Sorry Martin, i havent explained myself very well, the 2 different ratio's were both for the estate model it shows the our currrent hatch as a 96% match.

It shows the mondeo estate as 80% when you search for a car suitable to tow the charisma 540 (using tow car search option). Yet when you tell it you already have the outfit(using outfit matching)of estate and chrisma is says its a 91% match?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Louise,

I am sorry but this tow car matching business is usually not as straight forward as you might hope.

The problem with many of teh web sites that try to indicate a good bad and the ugly matches, is that they almost always a human being to transfer the data into their matching programme, and there have been some notable errors with some matches.

It i snot too difficult to work out the notional match figure,what you need to make sure is that you have the relevant weight data for your exact model of car and caravan. As Happy Lappy points out even though may have the same equipement specification, a different engine can make quite a difference- Diesels engines are usually heaveir that the equievelent size of petrol engine.

The ratio calculation is simply the fully laden weight of the caravan (MTPLM)divided by the kerb weight of the tow vehicle and multiplied by 100 to turn it into percent.

Whilst the notional figure of 85% ratio is often put about as the holy grail, it is only a guideline so don't be too worried if your match works out at 90%

weight is not the only major factor that makes a good outfit, just as important is loading the caravan and car properly, obtaining the correct nose load, and driving carefully.

 

[LOUISE_374359197]

cheers john, I have noticed some people reviewing towcars with a match in excess of 85% and being more than happy, maybe we wont have to change our car at all!

I hope not, ('04 mondeo ghia 2.0 tdci 130bhp) it's only done 23k it runs like a dream, and we get 46mpg and i love it!

It seems there is a lot more to caravanning than meets the eye!

no wonder people look to more experienced people for help!

 

[terry_374356161]

i think that your match will be fine.

but

you need to know

gross train weight, i.e car laden plus caravan laden.

and

maximum permissable braked trailer weight. somtimes this will shock you with a low allowance, beyond which you must not venture.

get it right, have a nice holiday.

get it wrong and as iain geddes the tech information officer tells me your insurance can be null and void. apparently the insurance company will come after you for their wedge having paid out, and so he says, some have lost their homes to pay back.

seems to close a motorway for recovery is rated at

 

[Thorpedo]

Louise

If I were you I would be very concerned about the car to caravan ratio, the 85% guideline is used to try to help reduce the risk of serious accidents and very unpleasant towing experiences.

Only last weekend during a total journey of 240 miles on the M5, no rain, no wind and little traffic, I saw a car caravan in a serious snake which I thought was going over but didn't, on the return journey a Citreon Picasso halfway up a 45 degree embankment with the caravan smashed to bits on it's side still attached.

There are obviously lots of reasons for snakes and accidents such as poor loading, noseweight, speed, poor maintenance etc, but to improve your chances of keeping control if something goes wrong and especially if new to towing a caravan it would be folly to start with a combination over 85%, infact perhaps it would be wise to look for a lighter caravan to match the car if you are reluctant to change it.

With insurance companies trying to wriggle out of paying up in the event of a claim, and the police always eager to prosecute, I wonder what possition you'd be in if you had an accident? The techies will tell you no prob, but you may end up in court trying to prove that.

Play safe and relaxed I suggest.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Louise

As I implied in my first reply towing regulations are not quite as simple as we might like. I deliberately restricted my earlier reply to avoid lengthy descriptions, and I hoped to only give the essential advice you needed.

Thorpedo has offered some sensible advice; it is always better to keep the caravan weight as low as possible to give a favourable ratio. However I feel he scaremongering when he suggest that prosecutions have taken place and insurance companies have avoided liability simply because a combination has exceeded 85%. This is simply not true:

85% has absolutely no basis in UK law. It is simply a suggested target aimed at caravans derived by the UK caravan industry many years ago which should help to keep an outfit manageable. It is not a magic figure that guarantees stability and equally it does not guarantee you will be unstable if you exceed it - Stability depend on a combination of many factors as I have previously stated.

Since its introduction , both cars and caravan have improved so its value as a target has diminished.

Current regulations rely on the car manufactures type approval specifications. The towing limits are different for every type of car and are determined through a set of tests. These set the maximum trailer weights and sizes for each car, not some notional out of date figure from a trade organisation.

It is also important to note that some cars are not permitted tow a trailer because they are not type approved to do so, Some cars are allowed to tow trailers but their maximum towed weight ratio is actually less than 85%, and some cars are permitted to tow at over 100% ratios.

If a prosecution has taken place it will be for some other factor such as an unsafe, unroadworthy outfit, or dangerous driving etc. simply exceeding the 85% guide ratio is not an offence.

As far as insurance is concerned, a policy only covers those details as specified in the policy documents. Unless it is specifically identified within the policy as a special limit to liability the company cannot claim a vehicle is 'overloaded' if it is compliant with the legal specification. They could not resist a claim on that basis only.

I do not have the statistics, but I am confident that the number of incidents involving caravans is less than for most other transport groups.

It is unwise to take a personal experience and extrapolate it to the wider situation as a whole. Thorpedo was in my view very unlucky to witness two towing incidents, Most of us very rarely if ever witness one or its aftermath. The nature of a caravan incident is sadly rather spectacular , this coupled to the comparative rarity of such incidents makes them memorable.

As ever the driver is responsible for the correct loading and driving of an outfit, The Mondeo has attained a good reputation as a tow car so check you limits and weights, take care and have fun.

 

[LOUISE_374359197]

Hello Louise

As I implied in my first reply towing regulations are not quite as simple as we might like. I deliberately restricted my earlier reply to avoid lengthy descriptions, and I hoped to only give the essential advice you needed.

Thorpedo has offered some sensible advice; it is always better to keep the caravan weight as low as possible to give a favourable ratio. However I feel he scaremongering when he suggest that prosecutions have taken place and insurance companies have avoided liability simply because a combination has exceeded 85%. This is simply not true:

85% has absolutely no basis in UK law. It is simply a suggested target aimed at caravans derived by the UK caravan industry many years ago which should help to keep an outfit manageable. It is not a magic figure that guarantees stability and equally it does not guarantee you will be unstable if you exceed it - Stability depend on a combination of many factors as I have previously stated.

Since its introduction , both cars and caravan have improved so its value as a target has diminished.

Current regulations rely on the car manufactures type approval specifications. The towing limits are different for every type of car and are determined through a set of tests. These set the maximum trailer weights and sizes for each car, not some notional out of date figure from a trade organisation.

It is also important to note that some cars are not permitted tow a trailer because they are not type approved to do so, Some cars are allowed to tow trailers but their maximum towed weight ratio is actually less than 85%, and some cars are permitted to tow at over 100% ratios.

If a prosecution has taken place it will be for some other factor such as an unsafe, unroadworthy outfit, or dangerous driving etc. simply exceeding the 85% guide ratio is not an offence.

As far as insurance is concerned, a policy only covers those details as specified in the policy documents. Unless it is specifically identified within the policy as a special limit to liability the company cannot claim a vehicle is 'overloaded' if it is compliant with the legal specification. They could not resist a claim on that basis only.

I do not have the statistics, but I am confident that the number of incidents involving caravans is less than for most other transport groups.

It is unwise to take a personal experience and extrapolate it to the wider situation as a whole. Thorpedo was in my view very unlucky to witness two towing incidents, Most of us very rarely if ever witness one or its aftermath. The nature of a caravan incident is sadly rather spectacular , this coupled to the comparative rarity of such incidents makes them memorable.

As ever the driver is responsible for the correct loading and driving of an outfit, The Mondeo has attained a good reputation as a tow car so check you limits and weights, take care and have fun.

Cheers for you responses folks,

We appreciate all your feedback, John, thanks for taking the time and i understand you trying to keep it simple but for me i like to understand as much as i can so i'm pleased you took the time to clear things up in your last reply, (i wont go into detail but i have a thorough understanding of motor insurance)

My biggest concern was good stability, considering our dilema i think we will stick with our car for and see how we get on after a couple of trips.

Thanks again everyone, this was my first question, after everyone sharing advice and experiences,i suspect i will be turning to you guys many times as we get going over the summer!!

Thanks again everyone

 

[Forbes1]

Louise,

You need to weigh your car with the driver in it and the fuel 90% full. This will give the correct kerbweight for your car only then can you work out your percentages. I've got a VW Touran TDi which the handbook quotes its kerb weight as 1529kgs. Its actual kerb weight is 1652kgs because the handbook quotes without fluids. The Mondeo 2.2 estate will be heavier and probably a better bet for towing. It may have self levelling too.

 

[S-MaxJon]

Your current mondeo is more than upto the task of towing the Swift.I use to tow with the 130 estate and you wouldn't know the van was there half the time.

I now have the ST TDCi hatch which weighs in at 1640 kgs the estate version will probably be well over 1700.

Also the max towing weight for Mondeos is 1800kgs - wouldn't recommend that just bear it in mind.

The estate is a very stable towcar,especially if it has self levelling suspension,so yhe 85% rule isn't an issue.As people have said it is only advice from various parties.

What is against the law is to tow above what the cra manufacturer state is the max tow limit.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Your current mondeo is more than upto the task of towing the Swift.I use to tow with the 130 estate and you wouldn't know the van was there half the time.

I now have the ST TDCi hatch which weighs in at 1640 kgs the estate version will probably be well over 1700.

Also the max towing weight for Mondeos is 1800kgs - wouldn't recommend that just bear it in mind.

The estate is a very stable towcar,especially if it has self levelling suspension,so yhe 85% rule isn't an issue.As people have said it is only advice from various parties.

What is against the law is to tow above what the cra manufacturer state is the max tow limit.

Jonathan,

I am at pains to point out that 85% is a guideline not a rule.

 

[emmerson2]

Louise, welcome to the wonderful world of caravanning.You've been given some very sound advice from some of the posts, and some not-so-sound from others, but one phrase I've noted a couple of times, and you will no doubt hear a lot more is "It towed like the van wasn't there", or " I didn't know the van was there". As a 'vanner of over 40 years experience, trust me, if it feels as if it's not there, it probably isn't!! It's not to my taste, but the Mondeo seems to have built itself a very good reputation as a towcar, and thousands of others cannot all be wrong, so go and try it, go careful, and enjoy.

Keep your speed down for the first couple of trips, and you'll soon get used to it. But please, do not become one of the type I followed on the A350 the other week who never exceeded 25mph, with a queue of a mile or so behind him. That will get caravanners a worse name than the idiot speedsters!.

Just take care, and enjoy.