Tow Car - with Diesel demise

[Hutch]

Found this article about a new Petrol Engine that Nissan are playing with. Could be the answer for us tuggers, clean on Emmissions and high torque

http://dailym.ai/2i4e2nx

 

[philip_stevens]

I was about to ask you for info on the Mazda CX5 2.2D 2WD Auto we are due to collect, but did a quick google search and came up with the info I needed to ask - NOx, CO2, and other details.

https://blog.twwhiteandsons.co.uk/technology/diesel-or-petrol/
and
http://www.nextgreencar.com/emissions/make-model/mazda/mazda%20cx-5/

Looks like good sites to search for info on most cars.

btw, what is PM10?

 

[otherclive]

PM10 is very fine particulates and are stated to be injurious to your lungs on account of the small size. There is another category of interest PM2.5 which can penetrate even deeper into the lungs. I understand that future direct injection petrol engines are likely to be fitted with particulate filters as DI engines emit the smaller size particulates. So their filters will need to be regenerated too. Probably to be known as a PPF in UK!
https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/new-petrol-engines-cause-more-air-pollution-dirty-diesels

 

[DrZhivago]

One consideration in the tow car debate that I think is being missed is that few if any manufacturers actually design a car for towing.

Where I live in the sticks a great many cars (in the wider sense) are towing things other than caravans - horse boxes, livestock trailers and open trailers loaded with bits of farm machinery. These tend to be rugged 4x4s like Toyota Hiluxes and the less tame versions of Land Rover. My own vehicle is a half-tame Jeep Grand Cherokee (the previous model) and it came equipped with a towbar and trailer electrical connections from the factory as standard; only a tow hook needed to be added. Such vehicles are always going to be available because there will always be a market for them, and there is no reason why electric versions of them cannot be made.

I think you are in too much expectation of a tow car that doubles as an executive style saloon. Many cars used to tow caravans at present are indeed executive style saloons, and they are suited as tow cars not by design but because they happen to be powerful and heavy. We may see less of that type in the future (and/or they may become even more expensive) as it becomes fashionable even for supposed executives to drive "green" bubble cars. But rugged 4x4s will always be available, even if they might be a bit rough round the edges, as long as they are needed as working vehicles in farming and forestry, which will remain significant activities in the world as a whole even after we have built over the last remnants of the countryside in the UK itself.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Nissan and Toyota announcement of petrol engines reaching thermal efficiency of 40% is quite astounding. Nissan has approached it by varying the compression of the engine where as Toyota claims its achieved it by refinement of existing technologies.

Do these two developments change the long term prognosis for the IC engine? I'm not sure. Many developed countries are moving to zero emissions, and whilst these engines if they come on stream will provide a step change in efficiency, but as we have seen over the last couple of years, high efficiency engines still produce emissions - some are worse than earlier less efficient versions.

Politically the UK government has set out its position which is no IC engines in domestic car production by 2040, so that would seem to make any expenditure by UK producers to improve IC technology somewhat pointless.

But the UK car industry sells product across the world, so its most likely there will be export models that continue with petrol and diesel.

Nissan (Infinity) is of course largely owned by Renault, and there is already a significant sharing of technology and platforms between the two companies. Toyota and PSA also have some important links, so its highly likely that these two technologies will appear in European vehicles when they have completed all the design and testing.

For caravanners, it does seem to hold out some hope, but I suspect that the trend will be for cars to continue to get lighter, which will mean lower powered (better fuel economy) engines will continue to become more prevalent.

Datsun/Nissan have a strong heritage when it comes to making reliable cars, and even in the 1970 and 80's when their cars had a propensity for the body work to fall to pieces the engines and running gear rarely missed a beat. I am fairly confident they know what they are doing, but having looked at the examples of the technology, I do wonder how robust the system will be.

The big question for the UK buying public is will the Government relax it zero IC plans if car manufacturers can make significant improvements such as those above.

 

[JonnyG]

Nissan and Toyota announcement of petrol engines reaching thermal efficiency of 40% is quite astounding. Nissan has approached it by varying the compression of the engine where as Toyota claims its achieved it by refinement of existing technologies.

Do these two developments change the long term prognosis for the IC engine? I'm not sure. Many developed countries are moving to zero emissions, and whilst these engines if they come on stream will provide a step change in efficiency, but as we have seen over the last couple of years, high efficiency engines still produce emissions - some are worse than earlier less efficient versions.

Politically the UK government has set out its position which is no IC engines in domestic car production by 2040, so that would seem to make any expenditure by UK producers to improve IC technology somewhat pointless.

But the UK car industry sells product across the world, so its most likely there will be export models that continue with petrol and diesel.

Nissan (Infinity) is of course largely owned by Renault, and there is already a significant sharing of technology and platforms between the two companies. Toyota and PSA also have some important links, so its highly likely that these two technologies will appear in European vehicles when they have completed all the design and testing.

For caravanners, it does seem to hold out some hope, but I suspect that the trend will be for cars to continue to get lighter, which will mean lower powered (better fuel economy) engines will continue to become more prevalent.

Datsun/Nissan have a strong heritage when it comes to making reliable cars, and even in the 1970 and 80's when their cars had a propensity for the body work to fall to pieces the engines and running gear rarely missed a beat. I am fairly confident they know what they are doing, but having looked at the examples of the technology, I do wonder how robust the system will be.

The big question for the UK buying public is will the Government relax it zero IC plans if car manufacturers can make significant improvements such as those above.

excellent write up prof..i do see one fly in the ointment.. can anyone trust car manufacturers ? is this technology fail safe and reliable ,now would be a first alas ,well i would have said i fear the end for fossil fuel powered cars but i'm slowly coming around to electric as it keeps progressing in leaps and bounds and frankly for towing it could be a pleasure,as long as they keep progressing with the range a car can go between charges and of course work on being able to supply electric for charging on the mass scale needed whilst bringing charging times down .. its amazing what people come up with when the clocks ticking so there is hope all the drawbacks for electric cars can be solved in the very near future

 

[alan29]

2040?
I doubt if it will my problem by then.

 

[Craigyoung]

2040?
I doubt if it will my problem by then.

Exactly ! 22 years ! Theres more things in life to worry about !! Right , whats for tea . .

 

[ProfJohnL]

It's unlikely to be my problem either

However there is little doubt we are using up the worlds resources a lot quicker than they are being made, and whilst I don't necessarily subscribe to the suggestion that the current evidence of global warming (Climate Change) has been initiated by human activity, I do believe we may be accelerating it.

But regardless of the cause and effect of climate change, I have no doubt the human race has been extremely wasteful and uncaring about our world, and we now need to address some of the issues such as enormous amount of inefficient power we produce and emissions that are part of that production.

As some else did say in a recent post, it's amazing how quickly we (the human race) can come up with new ways of doing things, and there is nothing like having a the sword of Damocles hanging over you to get the creative juices flowing.

Whilst I have imagined how things may change, for example how electric, hybrid cars and the necessary infrastructure may start to develop, it will only take one important discovery or invention to change the map I have, and I suspect that between now and 2040 we will start to see many inventive ideas that will force us to change our perspective. It is highly likely even us oldies, may need to review some of our activities in the light of new developments or even legislation well before 2040.

I find this prospect fascinating, and whilst I may not be at the forefront of swapping my car for an electric one, I am genuinely excited about what the future holds.

I encourage everybody just to keep a "weather eye" on developments rather than letting them fly by becasue we all may need to catch up with some of them far sooner than we might have thought.

 

[Hutch]

Just been out with a, person from JLR. , the new tech is water injection,, old tech from aviation. Lets see what happens.

 

[JonnyG]

Just been out with a, person from JLR. , the new tech is water injection,, old tech from aviation. Lets see what happens.

indeed and i still recall several write up 15 plus years ago on the subject including it being used to enhance the performance of diesels as a after market kit..also saw studies again around the same time for emulsifying diesel with 5 or 6% water at that mix NOX levels dropped and indeed gave a slight increase in power.. no doubt ad blu was thought to be the better option!

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have just come across this on teh AOL website
https://www.aol.co.uk/cars/2018/01/19/nissans-solar-energy-system-could-slash-your-electricity-bills/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Crelated_lnk1%26pLid%3D76948364_uk

About utilisation of local storage solutions,and generation of power that would be of use to both Car and home energy distribution.

 

[Gafferbill]

......many cars were stranded on the M74 for up to 8 hours recently in sub zero conditions.
Their occupants kept warm by running their engines and this was essential to avoid possible medical emergencies.
The emergency services ferried fuel supplies to vehicles that had run out of fuel.

Imagine that scene where a good number of vehicles are electric......their batteries would soon be flattened hmy:
No joke for the occupants........no joke for the services rescuing people with potential hypothermia ......no joke clearing the road of vehicles that have no motive power.

 

[Parksy]

......
Imagine that scene where a good number of vehicles are electric......their batteries would soon be flattened hmy:
No joke for the occupants........no joke for the services rescuing people with potential hypothermia ......no joke clearing the road of vehicles that have no motive power.

Bill, I'm sadly disappointed that you missed your chance to write s'now joke for the occupants.....

 

[Gafferbill]

.......I'm generous like that
.......I was setting you up for the punchline

 

[Raywood]

......many cars were stranded on the M74 for up to 8 hours recently in sub zero conditions.
Their occupants kept warm by running their engines and this was essential to avoid possible medical emergencies.
The emergency services ferried fuel supplies to vehicles that had run out of fuel.

Imagine that scene where a good number of vehicles are electric......their batteries would soon be flattened hmy:
No joke for the occupants........no joke for the services rescuing people with potential hypothermia ......no joke clearing the road of vehicles that have no motive power.

Good point, but if a diesel runs out of fuel it needs the system setting up again so may be petrol is the only answer in those conditions.

 

[JonnyG]

......many cars were stranded on the M74 for up to 8 hours recently in sub zero conditions.
Their occupants kept warm by running their engines and this was essential to avoid possible medical emergencies.
The emergency services ferried fuel supplies to vehicles that had run out of fuel.

Imagine that scene where a good number of vehicles are electric......their batteries would soon be flattened hmy:
No joke for the occupants........no joke for the services rescuing people with potential hypothermia ......no joke clearing the road of vehicles that have no motive power.

Good point, but if a diesel runs out of fuel it needs the system setting up again so may be petrol is the only answer in those conditions.

ummm how longs a piece of string after all all things being equal wouldn't the electric car run out of power first ,followed by the petrol car and lastly the diesel ? so you could say maybe diesel is the only way forward .very few modern diesel engines need to be manually primed

 

[Gafferbill]

.......from what I have heard electric cars have heaters that are woefully inadequate for the British winter climate.
I have even heard it said they may have to have a system that has a fuel tank such as an Eberspächer diesel heater hmy: :lol: