Upon watching the Caravan Channel on television yesterday one of the items discussed was that an EU law states that it is compulsary to advise your car insurance that you have a towbar fitted as it is classed as a modification. Any comments.
Towbar law
- Thread starter peter_374410740
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
It makes perfect sense.
Anything added to the car after production is a "Modification" to the original spec and as insurance is based on risk, they must know what risks they are covering.
Most, if not all, Insurers do not add any extra premium for towbars , but they are at liberty to do so if they wish as the "risk" is increased.
Also, bear in mind that if they do not know you are towing and you have an incident, they can justifiably reject any claim.
Anything added to the car after production is a "Modification" to the original spec and as insurance is based on risk, they must know what risks they are covering.
Most, if not all, Insurers do not add any extra premium for towbars , but they are at liberty to do so if they wish as the "risk" is increased.
Also, bear in mind that if they do not know you are towing and you have an incident, they can justifiably reject any claim.
I did that some years ago with direct line as they class it as a mod, there was no charge , but when i asked what may happen if i had an accident i was told the car would not be as stated on the policy as it had been altered but they didnt say what would happen , think they havnt had that problem to deal with yet, sooner safe than sorry.
Hi Peter.
Quite a few years ago maybe fifteen my memory won't let me be clearer than that I was sorting my policy out over the phone as usuall and in response to the question regarding vehicle modifications I answered no in much the same way as I always had. My mind when asked this question always thought of bigger engines or lowered suspension and thing like that.
however this time I did ask what types of things other people did do to cars that constituted a modification, the answer was ,
"we'll that can be anything ranging from stretching the car to simply fitting a tow bar"
On hearing that I stated that I had a tow bar fitted and the representative of the insurance company said that was the type of thing they needed to know. I still accepted the quote because they said that the price would not go up but a tow bar was classed as a modification.
Since then I always make sure that I tell them about the tow bar I don't want to test it but if I happened an accident without them having been told I would imagine they would see a way to avoid settling the claim!
I always have in mind the years of towing prior to this that I had said NONE! To the any modifications question.
I wonder how many other people have gone for years without realising.
best regards Brian
Quite a few years ago maybe fifteen my memory won't let me be clearer than that I was sorting my policy out over the phone as usuall and in response to the question regarding vehicle modifications I answered no in much the same way as I always had. My mind when asked this question always thought of bigger engines or lowered suspension and thing like that.
however this time I did ask what types of things other people did do to cars that constituted a modification, the answer was ,
"we'll that can be anything ranging from stretching the car to simply fitting a tow bar"
On hearing that I stated that I had a tow bar fitted and the representative of the insurance company said that was the type of thing they needed to know. I still accepted the quote because they said that the price would not go up but a tow bar was classed as a modification.
Since then I always make sure that I tell them about the tow bar I don't want to test it but if I happened an accident without them having been told I would imagine they would see a way to avoid settling the claim!
I always have in mind the years of towing prior to this that I had said NONE! To the any modifications question.
I wonder how many other people have gone for years without realising.
best regards Brian
What where the towbar is a factory fit?
It actually came in the specially fitted carrier not the towing receiver, but the wiring was all in place and the whole job is on my purchase contract.
If I take it out of the carrier and put it in the receiver is that a mod?
A bit like if I put a DVD in the inbuilt player, I suppose the DVD thing is even more of a mod as the DVD did come come with the vehicle!
I have declared I tow with the vehicle but not told them it has a towbar and electrics to do so!
What about my "hands free", "satnav" and rubber mats, this is all getting too much
It actually came in the specially fitted carrier not the towing receiver, but the wiring was all in place and the whole job is on my purchase contract.
If I take it out of the carrier and put it in the receiver is that a mod?
A bit like if I put a DVD in the inbuilt player, I suppose the DVD thing is even more of a mod as the DVD did come come with the vehicle!
I have declared I tow with the vehicle but not told them it has a towbar and electrics to do so!
What about my "hands free", "satnav" and rubber mats, this is all getting too much
To turn a claim down they would have to show that this was something that a competant underwriter would charge an additional premium for and as no one has yet posted details of an insurer that does charge it should not matter but the safe option is tell them.Graham Derby said:
hi all,
Intresting story Graham, the first year I had the Megane it was insured by Direct line, when ringing the call center I made a point of telling them that I used the car for towing. what do you tow!! "she said" oh a caravan, a small trailer and occasionally a boat!! oh thats fine she said, you are aware that the trailer would require it's own insurance for damage,because, while being towed it would be covered for 3rd party liability only, on the cars policy, great, now has the car got any modifications, no I said only the tow bar???.
oh I dont think thats covered on the policy
Well how am I supposed to tow a trailer without one!!! said I.
I will go check "she said" 10 mins later she came back, no its fine as long as we know. no extra charge.
I take it from that conversation thats it's fine to tow something without a bar
but if you have one fitted they must be told, strange.
JTQ, I think you are being a little pedantic here
if the car came with a factory fitted tow bar it would be in the options list same as sun roof, aircon and alloy wheels, so No it would not be a modiication. however if the car had steel wheels as standard and you put alloys on yes this would be a modifcation as you have deviated from the standard model.
a DVD, satnav, child seat, hands free phone, furry dice, and a red nose on red nose day would NOT be classed as a modificaton, as they are not perminant fixtures.
Intresting story Graham, the first year I had the Megane it was insured by Direct line, when ringing the call center I made a point of telling them that I used the car for towing. what do you tow!! "she said" oh a caravan, a small trailer and occasionally a boat!! oh thats fine she said, you are aware that the trailer would require it's own insurance for damage,because, while being towed it would be covered for 3rd party liability only, on the cars policy, great, now has the car got any modifications, no I said only the tow bar???.
oh I dont think thats covered on the policy
I will go check "she said" 10 mins later she came back, no its fine as long as we know. no extra charge.
I take it from that conversation thats it's fine to tow something without a bar
JTQ, I think you are being a little pedantic here
a DVD, satnav, child seat, hands free phone, furry dice, and a red nose on red nose day would NOT be classed as a modificaton, as they are not perminant fixtures.
Damian
Moderator
Even if you specify a towbar when purchasing, you will find that it is actually fitted post production by either the dealership workshop or a third party towbar fitte.Wiring looms are made with the ability to plug into for a bar.
In my case it definitely was all factory fitted and not a dealer fit.Damian-Moderator said:
With some BMWs it actually was a different vehicle build in respect to at least the gearing system, dynamic stability system and parking sensors..
Yes JTQ some people have caught a cold when buying used BMWs for towing as to fit the towing kit retrospectively which includes cooling mods for autos can cost up to £2000+ That might increase the insurance premium on write off value alone.
And some no doubt an even bigger cold by not having the required gearing mod done?otherclive said:
Most people do not realsie that if buying a car new and a factory option is fitted, it is a modification away from the standard, i.e. £1200 for leather seats. This changes the value of the car and needs to be declared to insurance company as it is a modification away from the standard.
I cannot see a problem with telling the insurance you have a bar fitted, I have since I found out they class it as a mod and have not been charged any extra.
I found out about what is classed as a modifcation when some time before I'd fitted alloy wheels to another car, I declared them and was not charged extra. However, the bonus as I was told is this, if the wheels are damaged they are covered to their full value and not just the value of the originals, as would have been the case, And as happened to me, you get rear ended, the bar is also automatically covered, if though they don't know, then you may well have an argument about them paying for a new bar and any consequential damage caused by it?
I found out about what is classed as a modifcation when some time before I'd fitted alloy wheels to another car, I declared them and was not charged extra. However, the bonus as I was told is this, if the wheels are damaged they are covered to their full value and not just the value of the originals, as would have been the case, And as happened to me, you get rear ended, the bar is also automatically covered, if though they don't know, then you may well have an argument about them paying for a new bar and any consequential damage caused by it?
I can't personally see what the problem is with telling your insurance company about what you have done to your car in the way of modifications or deviation from standard, though I suppose that some people like to modify their cars to the extent they are afraid the insurers may charge more, or worst still declare the vehicle or driver to be uninsurable.
"Any trailer while it is being towed by your vehicle"
These words appear in 99% of all Motor policies issued in the UK confirming you are insured.
So why do I have to tell them I have a tow bar fitted??
Food for thought but better to tell them than not??
The truth is most Insurers don't know what is what
These words appear in 99% of all Motor policies issued in the UK confirming you are insured.
So why do I have to tell them I have a tow bar fitted??
Food for thought but better to tell them than not??
The truth is most Insurers don't know what is what
I'd disagree with that, as your chassis/reg number will tell the spec of the vehicle when it left the factory, so all the extras you have added will show this to the insurance companies.
I added 12 factory fit extras to my car ranging from folding mirrors to dab radio?
I added 12 factory fit extras to my car ranging from folding mirrors to dab radio?
A few years ago this issue raised its head and I recall Lutz explaining that a lot of "factory fit" aren't that at all but a dealer fit prior to purchase and delivery.Michael E said:
We bought our car new a few years ago and specified a towbar etc. It wasn't fitted at the manufacturers as I thought but by the dealers towbar sub contractor.
I think the old adage "better safe than sorry" applies here. It doesn't cost anything to tell them.
I contacted Aviva this morning to see if If had informed then about the towbar
It turned out that I hadn't so they made a note of it so that in the event of a claim the towbar would be included in the insured sum
I asked about cover for towing and as I understood previously they said that its normal for third party cover for towing to be included in car insurance cover
They said that not having told them about the towbar would not have affected overall insurance cover for the car
It turned out that I hadn't so they made a note of it so that in the event of a claim the towbar would be included in the insured sum
I asked about cover for towing and as I understood previously they said that its normal for third party cover for towing to be included in car insurance cover
They said that not having told them about the towbar would not have affected overall insurance cover for the car
Michael E said:
12 factory fit extras! They must have cost as much as the car itself!! Good for the salesman commission though.
I know that some towbars are fitted at the dealers and i know that all the optional extras on a Honda Accord are also fitted at the dealers like ambient lighting etc.
The towbar i had was factory fitted, it doesnt take long to add 12 options , but most were cheap like high beam assist and load through other stuff was cosmetic running boards and different trim etc, cost wise saleman was family
The towbar i had was factory fitted, it doesnt take long to add 12 options , but most were cheap like high beam assist and load through other stuff was cosmetic running boards and different trim etc, cost wise saleman was family
I have always told my insurance company about my towbar but, interestingly, when shopping around for quotes one of the companies, (I can't remember which one), asked if there were any modifications "which affected the performance or stability of the car". I told them of the towbar but they said that wasn't of interest to them.
On the other side of the coin, if another car ran into the back of any car with a towbar fitted my guess is that the 'culprit' car would come off worse in an accident with less damage to the 'towbar' vehicle which effectively has added protection. This actually happened to me many, many years ago when a car hit me up the rear. I was stopped at a junction at the time but the offending car just backed up and then drove off leaving a trail of water behind him. I suspect that my towball had gone through his radiator. My car, a Standard Vanguard series 3, was totally unscathed. I felt a bit vindicated by the water trail although one of my passengers did suffer whiplash in the incident.
On the other side of the coin, if another car ran into the back of any car with a towbar fitted my guess is that the 'culprit' car would come off worse in an accident with less damage to the 'towbar' vehicle which effectively has added protection. This actually happened to me many, many years ago when a car hit me up the rear. I was stopped at a junction at the time but the offending car just backed up and then drove off leaving a trail of water behind him. I suspect that my towball had gone through his radiator. My car, a Standard Vanguard series 3, was totally unscathed. I felt a bit vindicated by the water trail although one of my passengers did suffer whiplash in the incident.
I was asked the same question when I changed the car which tends to show that they do not consider a tow bar as a relevant modification for premium purposes.JohnM said:
I suspect the car that hit you was stolen or it would have stopped.
JohnM said:
Hello John,
That might have been true with older vehicles such as your own, especially where they had a seperate chassis, but these days with monocoque designs, you cannot be so certain. In a collision the body of a modern car is designed to crumple in a particular way, to absorb the collision energy and to deflect the forces of the collision away from the passenger compartment. Introduce a tow bar, and the forces of a collision are redirected through the floor pan, which if you study many of these fixing positions you will see are surprisingly thin. These are likely to distort the floor pan, which apart from damaging the metal, may well compromise the cars designed energy absorption characteristics reducing the protection the car offers.
Whilst the car that collides from behind may well suffer radiator etc damage, generally speaking the costs of reparing the engine components is less than attempting body straightening. Consequently if a car has suffered body distortion, insurance companies are quite likely to call it uneconomic to repair, as you can never be certain, that the body can be pulled back to specification, and you don't know unless you go through an expensive and extensive assessment whether any other parts may have been compromised.
Not tow bar related but as a demonstration of the sensitivity to body distortion, In the previous cold snap, a neighbours car was parked on the broad pavement outside her house, when another car lost control and rammed the side of her. The collision speed was estimated to be no more than about 7 mph, but it still shunted her car about 1.5M sideways on an icy pavement. The car still drove though it had slight pull to the steering, but the car was written off, because it had clearly shunted the bottom door sill inwards about 2cm under the B pillar, and the doors were damaged. The insurance company said they could not guarantee that any repair would preserve the integrity of the cars safety cell, and that the geometry of the wheels and drive train may have been compromised.
I should add, that if you do have a rear end shunt and you car has a tow ball, it is very advisable to the towbar fitting checked for security and safety. It is quite possible for the floor pan to split at the bars fixing points.
I had need to query my car insurance renewal quote today and remembering this post I asked the question, answer is now different to last time I asked but that was late 90's!
Same insurance company but now through a broker, but they were not concerned about the bar at all, classed as a 'normal accessory', not a 'modification' therefore carries no additional premium.
Same insurance company but now through a broker, but they were not concerned about the bar at all, classed as a 'normal accessory', not a 'modification' therefore carries no additional premium.
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