Towcar Awards 2011

[NigelDonnelly]

Dear all,
In case you've missed it on your way to the forum, the winners of the Towcar Awards 2011 have been announced - full story below...

http://practicalcaravan.com/news/britains-best-towcar-announced
Cheers

 

[Heethers]

Seems VW did very well these last couple of years won last year under the Skoda Badge. They must be doing something right, not much use to me though with 1500 kg van in tow and living out in the sticks when the snow comes. Still have to grin and bear it, £465 road tax this year and fuel 5p a litre dearer than the towns, how us country yokels have to subsidise everyone else is beyond me. The tow car awards mean nothing to me, l have to have the unit that suits me can't always have what tow car awards recommend, when they have got the type of car l use its usually a 4x4 that’s 60k plus. But for all that the VW is a good car just not feasible for me.
NigelH

 

[seth1]

I am sorry but you dont subsidise anybody and for sure not me.You choose to drive that vehicle nobody forces you to drive it.There are plenty of 4x4 derived cars that would do the same job perfectly well.I hate to think how many people i must subsides.

 

[MrBell]

I am looking forward to seeing what cars have been tested as will be looking for a bigish car to use and tow a resonable caravan with, i like the idea of the VW golf being able to tow a good size caravan and still have space, and its also cheaper to run which has to be a bonus!
I always thought what towing you have to have a BIG thursty car to tow, hey im wrong completly wrong infact iv just eaten my own words, ha ha ha
cant wait to read the different results and compare them.

 

[Heethers]

Seth not talking about the car l am referring to the extra 5p a litre we have to pay in the Rural Area's, maybe l did not explain that correctly in my post. l will give you an example, l was in Bolton yesterday Shell garage 136.9 a Litre, back where l live Shell garage 141.9 litre, seems to me because l live in affluent post code the fuel companies discriminate against us country folks. Sorry if l caused you personally any offence, but some off us do feel we are subsidising the inner cities on fuel prices. Don’t no what happened to the text.

 

[xtrailman]

I am looking forward to seeing what cars have been tested as will be looking for a bigish car to use and tow a resonable caravan with, i like the idea of the VW golf being able to tow a good size caravan and still have space, and its also cheaper to run which has to be a bonus!
I always thought what towing you have to have a BIG thursty car to tow, hey im wrong completly wrong infact iv just eaten my own words, ha ha ha
cant wait to read the different results and compare them.

You do need a big thirsty car to tow larger caravans, nothings changed.

I wouldn't get excited about the results, unless things have changed the tow cars only tow 85%.

So you still need a heavy car to keep in that area.

 

[NigelDonnelly]

Cars are tested with vans ballasted to 85% and with the maximum noseload applied. Where the tests are really good is spotting the poorer towcars. We test at 85% because that remains the recommendation of safe matching by both clubs and the NCC. It's a level playing field and it does allow meaningful comparison between towcars.
A car that is bad at 85% is not going to get any better at 90% or a 100% match. Driving 50 cars back to back really sorts out the good from the bad towcars. And in its weight class the Passat was awesome. The Hyundai ix35 2WD in the same class (and heavier) was far poorer in every measure so regardless of the weight / match you tow at, it is a rigorous and worthwhile comparison.

 

[Dustydog]

What, No special prize for the Volvo 850 SE?

 

[JonnyG]

Cars are tested with vans ballasted to 85% and with the maximum noseload applied. Where the tests are really good is spotting the poorer towcars. We test at 85% because that remains the recommendation of safe matching by both clubs and the NCC. It's a level playing field and it does allow meaningful comparison between towcars.
A car that is bad at 85% is not going to get any better at 90% or a 100% match. Driving 50 cars back to back really sorts out the good from the bad towcars. And in its weight class the Passat was awesome. The Hyundai ix35 2WD in the same class (and heavier) was far poorer in every measure so regardless of the weight / match you tow at, it is a rigorous and worthwhile comparison.

love reading the awards, they make excellent assessments for brand new cars towing at 85%, and whilst it is true a bad tow car at 85% isnt going to get better when towing at 90 or even 100%that doesn't mean a car that towed at 85%and was better than the first car is still going to be the better tow car at 90% or 100%.

 

[NigelDonnelly]

What, No special prize for the Volvo 850 SE?

It was close. But no...

 

[NigelDonnelly]

love reading the awards, they make excellent assessments for brand new cars towing at 85%, and whilst it is true a bad tow car at 85% isnt going to get better when towing at 90 or even 100%that doesn't mean a car that towed at 85%and was better than the first car is still going to be the better tow car at 90% or 100%.
[/quote]

Might not be better, but unlikely to become worse.

I suspect there may be exceptions at the very heaviest end of the line though - The Shogun and Land Cruiser over the last two years of testing have been poor, and I wonder if they need to be loaded up to closer to their maximum tow / load figures to perform at their best - particularly where noseweight is concerned.

 

[Surfer]

Not sure how the Mondeo came out as a top tow car unless it was a manual as the auto is useless as agreed by the journalist for the CC. In addition, Ford have stated that they are unable to resolve the problem with the auto gearbox being unable to decide which gear to select when coming to a rolling stop and then accelerating.
Also there has been a long thread on here about the Orlando towing nose high. Is this mentioned at all or where all caravans towed by the Orlando level?
Comments please or is thsi just another marketing ploy to place more adverts in the PC magazine?

 

[NigelDonnelly]

'another marketing ploy to get more adverts in PC magazine?'
Strangely, the judging panel made up from Autocar and What Car? judges, and the Camping and Caravanning Club have no interest in cooking the results of the tests to suit our ad requirements. And if we wanted to just make the results up, we wouldn't go and live in a cold, windy airfield just off the A5 for a week in the middle of April. We'd just make them up...

/sites/practicalcaravan.com/files/images/TCA11_ORL_web.jpgThe Mondeo has the all-new autobox - the Powershift box is a twin-clutch unit developed by Getrag in Germany - it's very good indeed. Coupled with the tweaked engines and facelift, it keeps the Mondeo as one of our favourite tugs. I don't know if this is the same spec as the Caravan Club tested, but six of our test drivers had no issues at all. We had a manual version too.

As for the Orlando, this is one of our pictures of it on the parallel straights at Mira and we had no problems with a nose-up attitude. We had representatives from Witter and Al-Ko there checking every outfit and anything which falls outside the tolerances gets picked up by them.

Hope that helps

 

[xtrailman]

Cars are tested with vans ballasted to 85% and with the maximum noseload applied. Where the tests are really good is spotting the poorer towcars. We test at 85% because that remains the recommendation of safe matching by both clubs and the NCC. It's a level playing field and it does allow meaningful comparison between towcars.
A car that is bad at 85% is not going to get any better at 90% or a 100% match. Driving 50 cars back to back really sorts out the good from the bad towcars. And in its weight class the Passat was awesome. The Hyundai ix35 2WD in the same class (and heavier) was far poorer in every measure so regardless of the weight / match you tow at, it is a rigorous and worthwhile comparison.

Your testing method makes no sense to me. Not trying to be rude.
As the tests usually use Bailey caravans, why can't the tests be done with for example a unicorn Valencia at its MTPLM of 1565kg.
Towed only by cars capable, whether the ratio is 80%, or 95%.
That creates a level playing field, and would give useful data, and most certainly show which of the cars tested, was the best, and give a order of competence.

As it is, what weight was the passat towing, 85% of what, as variations have different kerb weights.

The same test could then be done for a popular Pegasus model, and like wise the orion.

 

[xtrailman]

'another marketing ploy to get more adverts in PC magazine?'
Strangely, the judging panel made up from Autocar and What Car? judges, and the Camping and Caravanning Club have no interest in cooking the results of the tests to suit our ad requirements. And if we wanted to just make the results up, we wouldn't go and live in a cold, windy airfield just off the A5 for a week in the middle of April. We'd just make them up...

/sites/practicalcaravan.com/files/images/TCA11_ORL_web.jpgThe Mondeo has the all-new autobox - the Powershift box is a twin-clutch unit developed by Getrag in Germany - it's very good indeed. Coupled with the tweaked engines and facelift, it keeps the Mondeo as one of our favourite tugs. I don't know if this is the same spec as the Caravan Club tested, but six of our test drivers had no issues at all. We had a manual version too.

As for the Orlando, this is one of our pictures of it on the parallel straights at Mira and we had no problems with a nose-up attitude. We had representatives from Witter and Al-Ko there checking every outfit and anything which falls outside the tolerances gets picked up by them.

Hope that helps

That looks nose down to me?
Is the mondeo box the wet clutch type?

 

[JohnGriffiths]

This thread is starting to sound like an episode of Grumpy Old Men/Women. I can't afford a new towcar at the moment, my car wasn't picked out as a winner and yes I'm sure not every combination of weight vs towcar was tested, that's life. But it still makes interesting reading and perhaps a useful guide in 2 years time when I do replace the X-Trail.
Well done Nigel!
(And no I don't work for PC LOL)

 

[NigelDonnelly]

This thread is starting to sound like an episode of Grumpy Old Men/Women. I can't afford a new towcar at the moment, my car wasn't picked out as a winner and yes I'm sure not every combination of weight vs towcar was tested, that's life. But it still makes interesting reading and perhaps a useful guide in 2 years time when I do replace the X-Trail.
Well done Nigel!
(And no I don't work for PC LOL)

 

[NigelDonnelly]

That looks nose down to me?
Is the mondeo box the wet clutch type?
[/quote]

It looks nosedown, but it didn't at the time! And yes it was the wet clutch type

 

[Surfer]

/sites/practicalcaravan.com/files/images/TCA11_ORL_web.jpgThe Mondeo has the all-new autobox - the Powershift box is a twin-clutch unit developed by Getrag in Germany - it's very good indeed. Coupled with the tweaked engines and facelift, it keeps the Mondeo as one of our favourite tugs. I don't know if this is the same spec as the Caravan Club tested, but six of our test drivers had no issues at all. We had a manual version too.

As for the Orlando, this is one of our pictures of it on the parallel straights at Mira and we had no problems with a nose-up attitude. We had representatives from Witter and Al-Ko there checking every outfit and anything which falls outside the tolerances gets picked up by them.

Why is it that a respected motoring journalist from CC on testing the Mondeo found the same problem as we did with our Mondeo auto box. Perhaps if you are a member of the CC you can log onto their website and read the write up on the titatium model that was tested recently.
Strange that Ford admitted to us that there was an issue with the car not knowing which gear to select if coming to a rolling stop and then accelerating. We were actually told to use the car in the manual mode! Except for the crappy auto gearbox the car was really good to drive.
Eventually Ford took back an eight month old car two weeks ago as they could not resolve the issue. This issue is common place across cars with auto gearboxes which makes me wonder on the calibre of the people you are using to test the car. The fault was more apparent when not towing and was a result of the way the software was written for the ECU controlling the gearbox.
More than likely ther is no issue with the manual Mondeo and it must be a delighful car to drive and to use for towing.

 

[xtrailman]

Cars are tested with vans ballasted to 85% and with the maximum noseload applied. Where the tests are really good is spotting the poorer towcars. We test at 85% because that remains the recommendation of safe matching by both clubs and the NCC. It's a level playing field and it does allow meaningful comparison between towcars.
A car that is bad at 85% is not going to get any better at 90% or a 100% match. Driving 50 cars back to back really sorts out the good from the bad towcars. And in its weight class the Passat was awesome. The Hyundai ix35 2WD in the same class (and heavier) was far poorer in every measure so regardless of the weight / match you tow at, it is a rigorous and worthwhile comparison.

Your testing method makes no sense to me. Not trying to be rude.
As the tests usually use Bailey caravans, why can't the tests be done with for example a unicorn Valencia at its MTPLM of 1565kg.
Towed only by cars capable, whether the ratio is 80%, or 95%.
That creates a level playing field, and would give useful data, and most certainly show which of the cars tested, was the best, and give a order of competence.

As it is, what weight was the passat towing, 85% of what, as variations have different kerb weights.

The same test could then be done for a popular Pegasus model, and like wise the orion.

Well Nigel?

 

[bopeep]

I noticed the picture of the orlando and the picture of the outfit looked level and you state that you had no problem with the nose up attitude. Well that is because you have had a witter tow bar and not as I have had a westfalia, then you would see one dangerous outfit.
Westfalia has admitted to me that it is incorrect but they can do nothing as Chevrolet designed it, and chevrolet are happy that their design suits them so take it or leave it is their attitude.
I wished I knew how to post their reply to me on this forum it would certainly raise a few eyebrows. It looks like for safety I will have to have the Westfalia one scrapped and a witter one fitted, all the hassle I could do without.
I am going to Italy next week and I expect a white knuckle ride all the way there and back, so you can imagine what I think of chevy designers

 

[Lutz]

I think your concern is unwarranted, Bopeep. A nose up attitude due to a towball being at a height out of spec does not constitute a safety hazard although some sources suggest that this is the case. Their reservation is probably based on the consequences of not setting the noseweight properly. If the noseweight is set with the caravan standing level and then hitched up to the car, thus resulting in a nose-up attitude, the actual noseweight in service will be too low and could increase the risk of instability. However, this method, although often employed, is incorrect. Noseweight should always be set with the caravan standing the same way as when it is hitched. If done properly, the risk of instability is not increased.
A nose-up attitude reduces the road clearance at the back end of the caravan. However, a nose-up attitude is not, in itself, dangerous and you should not have to worry about getting white knuckles.

 

[bopeep]

I set the nose weight at the recommended maximum for the car which is 75 kilos and I weigh it every time, I also put lots of weight in the car to push the back down. This I do not like as when we go into towns and places of interest then the car looks like an invitation to be robbed.
The car tow ball is 520 and the caravan level is 430, the car towball is too high and chevy admit it.
I am going on a ferry next week and expect to bottom out at the back as I did coming home to Spain, much prefer to be level regardless of technicalities.

 

[xtrailman]

I set the nose weight at the recommended maximum for the car which is 75 kilos and I weigh it every time, I also put lots of weight in the car to push the back down. This I do not like as when we go into towns and places of interest then the car looks like an invitation to be robbed.
The car tow ball is 520 and the caravan level is 430, the car towball is too high and chevy admit it.
I am going on a ferry next week and expect to bottom out at the back as I did coming home to Spain, much prefer to be level regardless of technicalities.

If the tow ball height is outside the EU limits, then take them to the small claims court.
Assuming you have asked for a refund?

 

[bopeep]

yeah got the refund, or at least it is in the post.