Well the Passett came out top,still do not know how they get a 2000 KLG towing limit ,talk about tail wagging dog. However how many out there look at the findings and actually buy one because of the report?.
Towcar of the year
- Thread starter Robert_374242026
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The towing limit of a car is set by the manufacturer and is based on the structural integrety of the car and its ability to move off from stationary on a 12% gradient. It has nothing to do with what they might suggest is a sensible weight to tow.
As to buying the car, I very rarely even read the article, maybe flick through it. I would much prefer to see last years winners entered into each catagory to see if the newcommers are better than established cars, you might get a winner for 3 or 4 years in a row, now that would be intersting!!!!!
As to buying the car, I very rarely even read the article, maybe flick through it. I would much prefer to see last years winners entered into each catagory to see if the newcommers are better than established cars, you might get a winner for 3 or 4 years in a row, now that would be intersting!!!!!
The towing limit of a car is set by the manufacturer and is based on the structural integrety of the car and its ability to move off from stationary on a 12% gradient. It has nothing to do with what they might suggest is a sensible weight to tow.
As to buying the car, I very rarely even read the article, maybe flick through it. I would much prefer to see last years winners entered into each catagory to see if the newcommers are better than established cars, you might get a winner for 3 or 4 years in a row, now that would be intersting!!!!!
As to buying the car, I very rarely even read the article, maybe flick through it. I would much prefer to see last years winners entered into each catagory to see if the newcommers are better than established cars, you might get a winner for 3 or 4 years in a row, now that would be intersting!!!!!
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Robert,
I agree with Alan W regarding the tow weight.
However regarding the label 'tow car of the year', It has not personally dictated what car I purchase, but clearly both the caravan industry and the car industry see it as a worthy accolade, and it will probably appear in VW's future advertising.
Now I am cynical about many things, and I do believe that many of the numerous incidents of violence these days are seen as socially acceptable because they are shown that way in television programmes, and increasingly so in video games. I am certain that this is the case, and it demonstrates the power of the media to influence especially the young and inexperienced.
It is exactly the same process that advertisers use, and it must work otherwise why do businesses spend so much on advertising?
So I am sure that VW will use the award, and I am confident that the award will persuade some people to buy the Passat over some other makes or models.
I agree with Alan W regarding the tow weight.
However regarding the label 'tow car of the year', It has not personally dictated what car I purchase, but clearly both the caravan industry and the car industry see it as a worthy accolade, and it will probably appear in VW's future advertising.
Now I am cynical about many things, and I do believe that many of the numerous incidents of violence these days are seen as socially acceptable because they are shown that way in television programmes, and increasingly so in video games. I am certain that this is the case, and it demonstrates the power of the media to influence especially the young and inexperienced.
It is exactly the same process that advertisers use, and it must work otherwise why do businesses spend so much on advertising?
So I am sure that VW will use the award, and I am confident that the award will persuade some people to buy the Passat over some other makes or models.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Without such a thing as a 85% weight ratio recommendation on the Continent, VW are only meeting local market demand for ever higher towloads, especially in the family car class. If German (or other) caravanners want a Passat with a 2000kg limit, the car manufacturer will do his best to meet the demand and it's up to the UK customer whether or not he wants to make use of such a high limit, too. He's free to choose.
I am sure that VW was out to increase their market share among caravanners who may otherwise have bought, for example, a Vectra with only a 1700kg limit or those that would otherwise have had to buy a larger Merc, or BMW only because of their higher towing limits, not because they really needed one for everyday use.
I am sure that VW was out to increase their market share among caravanners who may otherwise have bought, for example, a Vectra with only a 1700kg limit or those that would otherwise have had to buy a larger Merc, or BMW only because of their higher towing limits, not because they really needed one for everyday use.
Personally when I read the Towcar of the Year booklet, I got the impression they only tested the cars the manufacturers had available. After all, who is going to buy a Passat 4motion against a normal one? Where were the other cars in this and the other sectors? Surely each manufacturer should represented in each category? I went straight to the MPV section to find no such section. 50 cars and 25 manufacturers says it all, they're not concerned if they get this award or not. Can you really compare a Mitsubishi L200 to a Ford Galaxy? It would be more meaningful to compare like for like, after all, if you want to buy a mid range estate, like a Passat, it is likely you'll be looking at a Vectra, Mondeo et al. In fact the only category that was compared like for like was the over 1900kg!
I agree with Forbes. I would like to have seen the Vectra and Mondeo in the test, especially the latter as I run the Mk2 estate version and I don't think they have ever tested it. I think it would have given the VW a run for it's money.
The caravan club has been running tow car competitions for years and I honestly don't know anyone who has bought their new car purely on the recommendations from this source. It most probably provides nothing more than a passing interest to most of us.
It is a good way to fill magazine pages and the motor industry (or for that matter the caravan industry) can pat themselves on the back if they win....Next year it will be someone else who takes the accolade! And, of course those that win will use it as a marketting tool for a while.
The only true, independant test, would be to compare all like for like vehicles of all the different types of Saloons cars, Estates, MPVs, 4X4s etc, etc....but the list is so long it will not happen. The different price bands must also be considered because it does'nt always show that the most expensive car is the best tow car. Different people need their car for more than just towing a caravan so a compromise on type, specification and price is usually the decider on what car or caravan we ultimately buy.
It is a good way to fill magazine pages and the motor industry (or for that matter the caravan industry) can pat themselves on the back if they win....Next year it will be someone else who takes the accolade! And, of course those that win will use it as a marketting tool for a while.
The only true, independant test, would be to compare all like for like vehicles of all the different types of Saloons cars, Estates, MPVs, 4X4s etc, etc....but the list is so long it will not happen. The different price bands must also be considered because it does'nt always show that the most expensive car is the best tow car. Different people need their car for more than just towing a caravan so a compromise on type, specification and price is usually the decider on what car or caravan we ultimately buy.
Personally, I find the whole thing a waste of time.These tests are carried out in almost perfect conditions, never on muddy sites, or filled with tired hungry kids and loads of holiday kit!The only way to find your ideal towcar is by years of trial and error.That way, you find what suits you, not the tester.It took me 30 years to find Range Rovers, and I'm now driving my fourth one.Number five will probably arrive next year.(always second-hand, I should add!)
Another thought I had was that they didnt rate the kia sorrento very well yet all the magazines say it is great.
I have always found these "towcar of the year" tests fatally flawed.
They always assume that you want to tow the biggest heaviest caravan that you can with the car. I don't!
If you take the Ford 2 litre turbo diesel for example you can have it in a Focus, Mondeo, Galaxy etc. On test each would be given a totally different caravan with very different weights. I would ask which would tow my 1250kg caravan better. The tests do little to answer this.
As a result the test always favour the big engine small body vehicles whereas my experience is that the same engine but with the bigger body & keeping the smaller caravan can often give a much better towing experience.
Chris
They always assume that you want to tow the biggest heaviest caravan that you can with the car. I don't!
If you take the Ford 2 litre turbo diesel for example you can have it in a Focus, Mondeo, Galaxy etc. On test each would be given a totally different caravan with very different weights. I would ask which would tow my 1250kg caravan better. The tests do little to answer this.
As a result the test always favour the big engine small body vehicles whereas my experience is that the same engine but with the bigger body & keeping the smaller caravan can often give a much better towing experience.
Chris
Hi,
It's logical to test the car with the biggest caravan it can tow as this sets some sort of standard just as it would be pointless to test a Hummer with a camping trailer or a Fiesta towing a 20'er,
The test are very open to the likes and dislikes of the tester, the report on the Ford s-max in the cc magazine towcar of the year was a classic, the tester likened the S-max (Based on th Mondeo) to Vauxhalls Meriva (based on the corsa) then made the classic comment on MPV's about lack of luggage space with seven seats up when the whole concept of multi purpose vehicle is that you can have the driver plus the contents of half the house OR a family of five plus luggage for a holiday OR family of five plus Gran & Gramps for a day trip. The same magazine did a full review of the new Galaxy / S-max a few weeks later and rated them both quite highly!!!
It's logical to test the car with the biggest caravan it can tow as this sets some sort of standard just as it would be pointless to test a Hummer with a camping trailer or a Fiesta towing a 20'er,
The test are very open to the likes and dislikes of the tester, the report on the Ford s-max in the cc magazine towcar of the year was a classic, the tester likened the S-max (Based on th Mondeo) to Vauxhalls Meriva (based on the corsa) then made the classic comment on MPV's about lack of luggage space with seven seats up when the whole concept of multi purpose vehicle is that you can have the driver plus the contents of half the house OR a family of five plus luggage for a holiday OR family of five plus Gran & Gramps for a day trip. The same magazine did a full review of the new Galaxy / S-max a few weeks later and rated them both quite highly!!!
I see that the new Mondeo (some variants) have a tow limit of 2000kg+ but Ford do point out that the limit can only be looked at when taking the kerbweight, max vehicle weight and max train weight into account. Even so the new Mondeo still promises to be a fine tow car, although strictly at 85% rule my Bailey at 1400kg MTPLM would be outside, but I could loose 75gk easily within the car.
I think most of the car test are useless anyway.
2 examples in what car
They tested the Santa Fe , Kia and Discovery against each other sounds fair apart from 12k difference!
Recently they tested the Q7, Dicovery, X5 and the ML against each other,the ML cost really marked down because it wasnt a 7 seater well why put it in the test then use the GL that has seven seats.
The towcar awards are only new released cars so if only mini and the Fiat panda were released next year which one would win?
2 examples in what car
They tested the Santa Fe , Kia and Discovery against each other sounds fair apart from 12k difference!
Recently they tested the Q7, Dicovery, X5 and the ML against each other,the ML cost really marked down because it wasnt a 7 seater well why put it in the test then use the GL that has seven seats.
The towcar awards are only new released cars so if only mini and the Fiat panda were released next year which one would win?
Lutz
You completely miss the point.
I agree that if a car tows a bigger caravan well then it will tow a small ones better BUT it is quite possible that with the bigger caravan it might seem underpowered or possibly have poor hill starting etc but would be magic with the smaller caravan. The bigger car might tow the small caravan a great deal better than the smaller bodied same engine car that was tested with the smaller caravan & praised for both its performance & hill starting!
In years gone by I towed the same caravan with both a 2 litre Granada (smallest engine in the range) & a 2 litre Cortina (one of the biggest motors in the range). They had the same motor. The Cortina was about the caravan weight that would have been tested whilst the Granada was well below it. Tha Granada was better in every way but I am sure would have been underpowered with the larger caravan it would have been tested with.
Chris
Lutz
You completely miss the point.
I agree that if a car tows a bigger caravan well then it will tow a small ones better BUT it is quite possible that with the bigger caravan it might seem underpowered or possibly have poor hill starting etc but would be magic with the smaller caravan. The bigger car might tow the small caravan a great deal better than the smaller bodied same engine car that was tested with the smaller caravan & praised for both its performance & hill starting!
In years gone by I towed the same caravan with both a 2 litre Granada (smallest engine in the range) & a 2 litre Cortina (one of the biggest motors in the range). They had the same motor. The Cortina was about the caravan weight that would have been tested whilst the Granada was well below it. Tha Granada was better in every way but I am sure would have been underpowered with the larger caravan it would have been tested with.
Chris
You completely miss the point.
I agree that if a car tows a bigger caravan well then it will tow a small ones better BUT it is quite possible that with the bigger caravan it might seem underpowered or possibly have poor hill starting etc but would be magic with the smaller caravan. The bigger car might tow the small caravan a great deal better than the smaller bodied same engine car that was tested with the smaller caravan & praised for both its performance & hill starting!
In years gone by I towed the same caravan with both a 2 litre Granada (smallest engine in the range) & a 2 litre Cortina (one of the biggest motors in the range). They had the same motor. The Cortina was about the caravan weight that would have been tested whilst the Granada was well below it. Tha Granada was better in every way but I am sure would have been underpowered with the larger caravan it would have been tested with.
Chris
Does anybody really take these reports serious ? if you want unbiased and honest information about any car or caravan then you just need to join a forum like this one.
Nobody has the same requirements for a vehicle as the next person so why should i believe someone who has borrowed a car from a manufacturer probably for a backhander who then tries to tell me the car is better than the one i own?.
We all know the good cars and the bad ones for towing so if the passat is such a good car why did the allmost identical skoda octavia not win ? it costs less it has more kit and runs on the same engine and gearbox did skoda not offer such good incentives to the testers this year? or are vw a bit afraid that skoda and seat might just take yet more sales from vw and audi ?.
Either way take the towcar of the year results with a pinch of salt they are not worth the effort reading and make up your own mind from fellow caravanners nd your own experiance, not the shouts of paid journalists.
Nobody has the same requirements for a vehicle as the next person so why should i believe someone who has borrowed a car from a manufacturer probably for a backhander who then tries to tell me the car is better than the one i own?.
We all know the good cars and the bad ones for towing so if the passat is such a good car why did the allmost identical skoda octavia not win ? it costs less it has more kit and runs on the same engine and gearbox did skoda not offer such good incentives to the testers this year? or are vw a bit afraid that skoda and seat might just take yet more sales from vw and audi ?.
Either way take the towcar of the year results with a pinch of salt they are not worth the effort reading and make up your own mind from fellow caravanners nd your own experiance, not the shouts of paid journalists.
Hi,
Too many of these reports are incorrectly named - it should be NEW tow car of the year - the manufacturers only want to talk about what is new in their product range, and the maganizes only want to test the new vehicles anyway.
So, yes, expect a skewed distribution of cars in these annual "group" tests.
Robert
Too many of these reports are incorrectly named - it should be NEW tow car of the year - the manufacturers only want to talk about what is new in their product range, and the maganizes only want to test the new vehicles anyway.
So, yes, expect a skewed distribution of cars in these annual "group" tests.
Robert
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I don't think I've missed the point at all. If you say a 2 litre Granada towed better than a Cortina with the same engine (which I don't doubt), just imagine how much better a big engined Granada would have towed and it's that model which they would have tested.
Lutz
I think we are going to agree to disagee about this.
I still find it impossible to compare what they say about a light car & a heavy car when used to tow the same caravan & where they have reservatuions about the towing performance of the big car/caravan combination.
Having said all this I don't put much value in what they say anyway.
Chris
I think we are going to agree to disagee about this.
I still find it impossible to compare what they say about a light car & a heavy car when used to tow the same caravan & where they have reservatuions about the towing performance of the big car/caravan combination.
Having said all this I don't put much value in what they say anyway.
Chris
Now I DID read the test supplement as I was sat in my van on `holiday` waiting for the torrential rain to abate.
To answer Icemakers question as to why the "almost identical" Skoda didn`t win, maybe because it has a different floorpan, totally different engine (and there was only 65 BHP - or more than 50% - difference), a different gearbox and one was four-wheel drive and the other two-wheel drive. That`ll be the same then.
I have a Passat 140 TDI Sport Estate which again is different from the `winner`, but I can`t imagine that the difference is so great, and if mine is even close to being `Towcar of the Year` there must be some junk around.
I`ll admit it`s good but not THAT good.
It is inevitable that no matter which car gets such an accolade there will be shedloads of people, invariably with far less experience of the products tested than the magazine testers, who will feel upset if `their` model doesn`t win or gets derogatory comments.
I genuinely think that the `testers` do a fair and reasonable job and are clearly less biased than the majority of posters on here, but if anyone actually spends their hard-earned based upon a half-page `test report`, they need their bumps feeling.
To answer Icemakers question as to why the "almost identical" Skoda didn`t win, maybe because it has a different floorpan, totally different engine (and there was only 65 BHP - or more than 50% - difference), a different gearbox and one was four-wheel drive and the other two-wheel drive. That`ll be the same then.
I have a Passat 140 TDI Sport Estate which again is different from the `winner`, but I can`t imagine that the difference is so great, and if mine is even close to being `Towcar of the Year` there must be some junk around.
I`ll admit it`s good but not THAT good.
It is inevitable that no matter which car gets such an accolade there will be shedloads of people, invariably with far less experience of the products tested than the magazine testers, who will feel upset if `their` model doesn`t win or gets derogatory comments.
I genuinely think that the `testers` do a fair and reasonable job and are clearly less biased than the majority of posters on here, but if anyone actually spends their hard-earned based upon a half-page `test report`, they need their bumps feeling.
Angus, i think you have miss understood what i was saying, i was refering to the allmost identical skoda octavia scout which is 4 wheel drive and is available with the same engine line up as the rest of the vw group range. what i was saying is the manufactureres will only put forward cars which they want to sell more of.
VW have in the past admited that they have put the brakes on development at seat in regards to more luxurious performance cars as it would allmost certainley take sales away from audi.
I think my own example is proof of what vw are afraid of, would you spend
VW have in the past admited that they have put the brakes on development at seat in regards to more luxurious performance cars as it would allmost certainley take sales away from audi.
I think my own example is proof of what vw are afraid of, would you spend
Icemaker,
methinks your Skoda dealer has been telling Porkies.
The Octavia is on a Golf floorpan.Either that or the motoring press are wrong,and VW have taken a Passat chassis and shortened it to a 2578mm wheelbase, which is exactly the same as a Golf one!
The salesman possible thought there may be a greater cachet with association of a higher-priced product, but he should have just stressed the quality and value of the product which is excellent anyway.
methinks your Skoda dealer has been telling Porkies.
The Octavia is on a Golf floorpan.Either that or the motoring press are wrong,and VW have taken a Passat chassis and shortened it to a 2578mm wheelbase, which is exactly the same as a Golf one!
The salesman possible thought there may be a greater cachet with association of a higher-priced product, but he should have just stressed the quality and value of the product which is excellent anyway.
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