Towing Capabilities, VW, Citroen C5, Mondeo.

[Auspom]

Hi Guys, Just wondering what size & weight vans can the following vehicles legally tow comfortably.

1. Citroen C5 Turbo Diesel.
2. VW Passat Turbo Diesel.
3. Ford Mondeo Turbo Diesel.

All based around the 2litre Turbo Diesel engine and around the year 2004/5.

Thanks Tony

 

[Lutz]

As there are various versions of the above models each with their own towing limits your best bet for starters is an outfit matching site, such as whattowcar.com. The information you'll get won't be definitive, but it'll at least put you in the right direction.
By the way, your statement, "what size & weight vans can the following vehicles legally tow comfortably" is a bit of a contradiction in itself. Either legally or comfortably, but rarely are the two the same. Perhaps owners of one or the other will advise you on their own idea of what is "comfortable", because some are quite happy to tow right at the legal limit whereas others prefer to stay well short of that.
Another issue is driving licence entitlement. You will need a Category B+E licence to drive an outfit with a maximum permissible (not actual) gross train weight of over 3500kg. If you have a pre-1997 licence this shouldn't be an issue, though.

 

[Auspom]

My licence is the older pink paper licence and covers car plus HGV 1,11,111 as well as PSV.
When i say comfortably i mean without too much stress on the tow car and legally within the law but i understand what you mean and many thanks for the response.

Tony

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Tony,

As Lutz points out there is often a difference between comfortable and legal.

The legal bit is relatively easy, a car is allowed to tow any trailer up to the the cars stated towing limit - established by the the cars manufacture in the cars specifications. The trailer must conform to the size limits for trailers - but that should not be a problem for UK sourced caravans.
The other legal limit is not set by the car, but on the drivers licence. - Post 1997 UK driving tests only provide the standard driver with Cat B for towing trailers. This limits the driver to outfits where the combined MAM does not exceed 3500Kg, and the trailers MTPLM must not exceed the cars MIRO. Drivers finding they need more capacity have to take the B+E extension test. Pre 1997 tests automatically gave drivers the B+E category.

For an outfit to be legal,it must not be unsafe or dangerous. That may seem obvious,but it is perfectly possible to have a legal weight match that for one of several reasons may be unsafe or dangerous, apart form mechanical faults, issues such as poor loading may make an outfit unsafe.

What is comfortable is the most difficult aspect to predict, its largely down to personal preferences, and experience. Bearing in mind it seems logical to keep the weight of a trailer as small as possible compared to the towing vehicle. I support this view, but unique to the UK the caravan industry suggests you should aim for a weight ratio for the MIRO of the car compared to the MTPLM of the trailer not exceeding 1:0.85 or 85% I must stress that this is only a guideline, and it has no basis is UK law. I and a number of others take issue with the actual figure of 85%, as there has been no evidence provided to back up its validity.

One of the main reasons for my distrust of this guideline is it has been promoted in a dogmatic fashion, and taken on mythical mantle of providing a SAFE towing ratio, and some misguided caravan will religiously work meet this target, whilst overlooking other critical factors that go to make a safe outfit.

There have been posters on the forum that openly admit to speeding, yet would they go over the 85% guideline - never!!!!

In my mind there are many factors that go to make a comfortable and safe outfit,and these include in no specific order:-

Keeping the weight ratio as small as possible.
Achieving the optimal nose weight,
Good maintenance of car and trailer
Correct tyre pressures
and in my view the most important of all is good driving habits.

As for obtaining the figures for cars, there are several web sites that offer towing advice and facts and figures BUT most of them contain errors, the problem is you wont know which are correct and those that are wrong - so beware.

The most reliable source is the cars data plate of V5 registration document, but failing this the car or caravan manufacture.

 

[Jaydug]

I can vouch for only one of the three vehicles you're considering. That's the Citroen C5. Mine is the estate version and its kerb weight is 1530Kgs. For some reason Citroen quote it's maximum towed weight as 1600Kgs which would give a towing ratio of 105%. I currently tow a van which is slightly more than 1200Kgs which comes out at 79%. Consequently it's makes for a very relaxed tow which allows me to use 6th gear much of the time. Also fuel consumption is on the better side of 30mpg. And of course the suspension ensures a level aspect.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,

You write " For some reason Citroen quote it's maximum towed weight as 1600Kgs which would give a towing ratio of 105%"

The reason is quite simple and logical. Citroen along with all other car manufacturers selling in the EU do actaul real tests to determine the maximum trailer weight the car can tow. There is no magical fixed maximum percentage they have to apply.

The UK caravan indusrty (not car manufacturers) apply a blanket recommendation of 85% regardless of the cars ability. Neither 85 or 100% figures that are often quoted as figues for towing in the UK have any legal or mechanical basis.

 

[ValA.]

We have a Mondeo 2l TDCi 2006, Estate, kerb weight around 1596, and we tow a caravan with a MTPLM of 1350 (around a 90% match) with no problems either accelerating, overtaking, uphills, hill starts, and long downhills. Our last car did have problems when on long uphills, in very hot weather (high 30s in France), when it overheated a couple of times and we had to stop (when we saw the temperature gauge rising) - but this current car doesn't have the same problem.

 

[JohnGriffiths]

The hatchback 2.0HDi C5 has a higher max tow weight (1700kg) than the estate but its payload about 100kg less, i.e. the train weights are about the same. Both max tow weights are well in excess of the kerbweights. According to my technical brochure though the 2.2 diesel has a much lower towing weight, 1300kg for the estate and 1400kg for the hatch.

 

[JohnM20]

Hi Auspom
I looked at the Citroen C5 before I bought a Mondeo. The reason I discounted the Citroen was the low towball loading figure compared with other cars.
The Mondeo tows very well.
JohnM

 

[JohnGriffiths]

The C5 tow ball weight is 75 kg which I would describe as average rather than low. Are the Mondeo or Passat (not latest models remember) any different?

 

[Bosch_Dave]

Hi Tony

I have the Mondeo and tow a twin axle Avondale with a MTLM of 1500kgs to be fair the rig tows like a dream no issues in the last two years cant praise the mondeo highly enough.

 

[Tukums]

Hi Auspom
Agree with all the other comments said about towing.
I have a 2002 Citroen C5 HDi 2.0 hatchback 110bhp. A good tow car, tows well and stable, can take most motorway hills in 5th gear, in fact went over Shap on the M6 the other week in 5th, at just under 60 mph. Tow a Sprite Alpine 4 (MTPLM 1,230kg). Towing limit on this model 1,500kg, kerbweight 1,385kg without the EU 75kg bit. Tow at 88% or 84% with the EU bit added.
However the mileage is now high and the hydraulic suspension is getting soft, needs replacing and a few other mechanical problems, so reluctantly having to change.
Have decided to get a Skoda Octavia Estate 2.0 TDi 138bhp 4x4. Kerbweight 1,500kg, towing limit 1,600kg. A bit more traction when getting off muddy rally fields with a VW engine and Haldex 4x4 system use by Audi, Volvo and others makes. Will now be towing at 82% with a bit of leaway, if I change my van.
You could also consider the Skoda Superb (similar to VW Passat) do not know kerbweight, towing limit 2,000kg and you can get a 138 or 168bhp TDi engine.
C5 and Octavia 75kg noseweight, Superb 80kg.

Have a read of the test reports.