Towing Limits - i am soooo confused. HELP!!!

[craigstaiano]

I have had a couple of other forums topics on this discussion but i am now so confused i dont know what to say, do or think about the subject of towing limits. Thanks to all to responded to previous posts like Lutz and Travelingrooster but i need more advice and i need to know the LAW so who can please help

For those of you not read my previous posts here is the story in a nutshell.

My car: Mazda 6 TS2 2.2 D 163ps (bhp)

Kerbweight = 1555kg inc driver
Max tow limit = 1600kg
Both above figs from the brochure

Caravans we are looking at at Lunar twin axles between 1560 and 1600KG MTPLM

Practical Caravan state every month in the magazine (in the blue pages towards the back) that the MTPLM must not be greater than the maximum tow limit for the car to be legal (and we are talking legal here not the 85% kerbweight recommendation)

BUT here is the twist. A salesman from Robinsons caravans in Chesterfield said that it was an illegal match as the weight of the van was greater than the weight of the car, But this is not what i have been lead to believe. (He even keyed the figures into his computer to prove to me)

If this was the case, a Landrover Freelander wouldnt be able to tow an Airstream (2600kg car and 2800kg caravan) or a Toyota Hilux wouldnt be able to pull a fifthwheel.

The question is this: What is legal in my example (not recommended) and is the towing capacity based on the car's capability or the weight of the car versus weight of the caravan???

Please help!!!! We saw our dream van now dont know if we can buy it. Snifs :-(

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Craig.
The information required;
It’s a bit like which came first the chicken or the egg, so you need to have to hand various information about your driving licence, the car and the trailer.

Car Kerb weight 1555Kg
Car GVW – unknown but likely to be 2000Kg (you will find this on the crs data plate)
Caravan MTPLM
Driving Licence categories B or BE or B+E

The LAW:
Lets start with the easy bit and assuming your figures are correct, Your car can legally tow a braked trailer of up to 1600Kg actual weight. Which is the manufacturers specified limit for that car. This concurs with the magazines statement. The towing limit is derived by the car manufacture by conducting tests to establish the cars real capability on a model by model basis.

But depending on when you took your driving test you may not be licensed to tow your outfit.:- Your licence will have certain categories of entitlement. The category related to cars and caravans is cat B.

If you took your driving test before 1jan 1997 then you will automatically have been awarded category BE. This entitles you to tow an outfit of car and trailer of up to 8250Kg – more than enough for all normal car/caravan combinations.

However the driving test changed on the 1st Jan 1997, and subsequently new drivers were only awarded Cat B, which is restricted to an outfit of combined MAM of 3500Kg. It is important to understand the MAM stands for Maximum Authorised Mass, and this is not the actual weight of a car and caravan but the theoretical maximum each can be added together (GVW for the car and MTPLM for the caravan e.g. 2000+1600 = 3600) If these add up to 3500 or more, then your licence says you cannot legally drive the outfit.

You can increase your towing capacity by taking the towing test to gain +E to your cat B.

You must ensure that any car (and caravan) is road legal before driving on the highway. – and even tough an outfit may conform to the weight restrictions if it is unstable at normal towing speeds then the outfit is not roadworthy.

The RECOMMENDATIONS (these have no legal standing they are just guidelines)

The UK caravan industry recognises that caravans are large trailers and are not ideal trailers. So in the spirit of good sense they suggest that new caravanners should start with an outfit with weight ratio of 0.85:1 or 85%. This is calculated by dividing the caravans MTPLM by the kerbweight of the car. In your case your proposed outfits represent 100% to 102%.

In addition the industry strongly recommends that an outfit should not exceed 100% even for experienced towers. Let me stress that these are not legally enforceable

So you outfits are at and beyond the top recommended limits.

ROBINSONS
This is where it is essential that you check the data plates and specifications for your vehicle. Robinsons will almost certainly have used a commercial matching web site. The problem with these is that the web sites are only as good as the data base they use, and some of these sites are known to have significant errors in the data they hold.

you must have an exact match for the make model and year and check the values they have compared to your vehicles data and specifications–similar models will not do it must be an exact match.

With the previous paragraph in mind, it is quite possible that that the dealer may not have had the correct data for your car or caravan, in which case the websites output will be flawed.

Let me assure you that if the caravans laden mass is less than the towing limit of the car the outfit is legal – but it may not be recommended. – Perhaps the dealer decided to embellish the “not” recommended website output.
None of the above limits guarantee a good match. That is down to range of factors not covered in this reply.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi Craig,the section in Practical Caravan does not state that the The MTPLM should not exceed the maximum tow limit of the car to be legal,at least that I can see. MTPLM is exactly that :- it is, Maximum Theoretical Permissible Laden Mass.The maximum tow-weight of the vehicle must not ever be exceeded.The gross vehicle weight must never be exceeded and furthermore the gross train weight must never be exceeded ( gross vehicle weight + maximum towed weight).
The maximum weight on the tow-ball must not be exceeded and also the maximum weight on the hitch-head coupling must not be exceeded;the lower of the two is the one to follow. The weight on the tow-ball is calculated as being part of the vehicle payload weight;even though it is outside,this is because of the downward force on the rear axle.
As a point of interest for you, my maximum tow is 1600kgs but my MTPLM is 1750kgs;the caravan is loaded to 1600kgs and no more.It is done by careful weighing of everything that was not included in the MiRO (Mass in Running Order) figure; that was stated as 1426kgs but is actually 1440kgs.
I was also confronted with a Clever Dick caravan sales person that insisted that the Towsafe Data Base was correct for my car. It was not,in fact it is now accepted by Towsafe that is is very incorrect.The figure that he was quoting was 278kgs lighter than it actually is.
My car and caravan have been weighed; both together, and the car on its' own on a Dynamic Axle Weighbridge.They were weighed to establish the actual kerbweight of the car as per EU Directive 95/48/EC and the actual MiRO of the caravan.The bridge is accurate to 0.5% and are the bridges used by VOSA.
I see that the figure for your car includes the driver,but no reference to fuel (90% full tank)or the 7kgs of luggage.
There is a rather good little guide issued by the NCC ( National Caravan Council) that covers all aspects of Towing Law,even down to the minimum/maximum height of the tow-ball centre.
The length of time since passing your driving test/type of driving license that you have could be a deciding factor as to what you are legally permitted to tow at present and without further testing and certification will/could prevent some of your choices of Tow Vehicle & Caravan from becoming reality.

 

[Lutz]

I'm sure John L meant well with his reply, but it is rather hard to read. Suffice to say that as far as the law is concerned your only restriction is what your driving licence allows. In a nutshell, if you passed your test after the 1st January 1997 and you only have a Category B licence, you may not tow at over 100% weight ratio, based on the caravan's MTPLM and the kerbweight (Mass in Service) shown on your car's V5c certificate. If you passed your test before that date or you have a B+E licence there is no similar restriction although it is generally accepted that it is unwise to go over 100%.

 

[craigstaiano]

I passed my test in 1988 so there is not an issue there.

Still none the wiser though although i do appreciate your comments and replys

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Craig,

Your opening question could not be given a simple answer because you had not provided the information about your driving licence.

Having passed your test in 1988 you will have been awarded category BE. This allows you to tow any car and caravan on the UK market.

So its now just down to what the car can tow legally, which is the manufactures towing limit that you report is 1600Kg.

According to your figures that represents a towing ratio of 102% (caravan MTPLM,1600x100 / car kerbweight 1550Kg).

The UK caravanning industry recommends that towing ratios should be about 85% and never more than 100%. Whilst this is sensible advice they are only guidelines, and they have no legal backing.

So to summarise, you can legally tow your proposed caravans, but it is right very close or slightly over the industry recommendations.