towing safely

[andrew_374347295]

HI weve just returned from a holiday in cornwall , traveling back along thee m5 sunday morning 3 august 4by4 past us in the middle lane with the van snakeing badly.

Few miles further along he lost control about 2 miles south of taunton dean services station , with the van on its side and the car on its roof its blody amazing nobody was killed ,.#

please please stick to the speed limits 60 mph on motor ways.

this guy must have been doing way more than this.

 

[izzeybear1]

Unfortunately it is incidents like the one described that give ALL caravanners a bad name.

It is not only motorways that create problems. Beware the 'musto's'. These are those drivers who on seeing a caravan must overtake it. Whilst towing down a minor A road i indicated to turn right, the idiot behind me decided it was time to zip past, only inches prevented an accident, not to be outdone the driver following the Musto also decided to try for the overtake By this tim e i was half way through the turn which prevented any further progress of the Musto. If we all act responsibly then the 'anti brigade' loose the argument.

Keep it safe when towing

 

[Gafferbill]

Hi Andrew

You may be interested in the posts and comments .. Towing with a Ford Galaxy

on the Towcar forum

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Andrew

Have a look at Towing , Driving and Safety Thread on "Speeding Caravanners"!

Serves him right. Why do they have to do this especially when fuel is so expensive? I'll lay a penny to a pound he never checked his tyres and they were probably perished.

Chers

Alan

 

[Garfield]

One can only be bewhildered at the stupidity of the guy in the 4x4 for ignoring the signs tht something was on the edge of disaster and not slowing down. As far as the comments about the Galaxy towing at 70+, every outfit has different characteristics, if the outfit occasionally snakes at 60 mph then you are going too fast and should slow down, I have towed with a Sharan which never ever snaked even when occasionally hitting 70, it was more stable at 70 than a friends Discovery at 60

 

[John_374354584]

I'm fed up with sanctimonius remarks like " stick to the speed limit" as if 60mph is the be all and end all of what it is safe to do. Each european country has different speed limits in France caravan limits are the same as cars speed limits are arbitary. I have towed in france for 20 years and I seen no more accidents than in UK. Speed limits encourage bunching, just see HGV's at 56 mph. Everyone should be able to tow at what they feel comfortable and most importantly safe speed , for some that may 40mph for others 70mph. If an accident happens the police can decide wether or not to charge with an offence. I say this having towed in UK and Europe for more than 40 years. In my opinion the biggest killer is tiredness and dozing off, Friday pm 21.30hrs must get to the ferry / site to get one more day in the holiday / weekend away.

 

[SteveW77]

I tend to agree with John, most accidents are cased by stupidity. Inappropriate speed is just one element. A poor driver is a poor driver whatever speed they are driving at.

To me the most important thing is to drive within your capabilities and not let outside elements push you into doing things that are not within your experience or ability. The largest numbers of traffic accidents occur at 30mph or less. It is only the fact that accidents involving caravans are so spectacularly destructive that they make the TV news. If caravans stayed in one piece, nobody would notice them and this topic of conversation would hardly exist at all.

Steve W

 

[Lutz]

Garfield has hit the nail on the head. Anyone obviously ignoring the signs of instability diserves to have their caravan thrown on its side. It's just regrettable that passengers of the affected vehicle and other road users are drawn into the consequences.

 

[Robert_374242026]

Many years ago up by the USA Mildenhall camp they use to leave wrecked cars on the side of the road to remind one of these accidents, some where horrific, however on the way to Scotland we saw on the verge what was a caravan although some people might not recogise it being so , there was nothing left but bits.It certainly drew my attention.

 

[Lutz]

Many years ago up by the USA Mildenhall camp they use to leave wrecked cars on the side of the road to remind one of these accidents, some where horrific, however on the way to Scotland we saw on the verge what was a caravan although some people might not recogise it being so , there was nothing left but bits.It certainly drew my attention.

Because of their relatively lightweight construction, caravan accidents look spectacular than they really are. Few result in really serious injuries when compared to the amount of visible damage.

 

[ProfJohnL]

A number of assumptions have been made here, first and foremost that the cause of the incident was speed related, that may not be true, However the speed of the outfit will have affected the outcome. The fact is we don't know what actually happened so it is pure speculation.

However as others have pointed out, some towing difficulties may be the result of an inexperienced of foolish driver not allowing for the extra length, weight, reduced acceleration, poorer road handling, and the effects of other road vehicles and conditions. Speed is not the only factor, and there is nothing to say that by simply exceeding a statutory speed limit will cause an outfit to become uncontrolable.

Exceeding a speed limit is always illegal, and I often wonder why some people think that speed limits do not apply to them.

What is true though, as speed increases then the controllability of an outfit decreases. Ultimately there comes a point where the skill and capabilities of the driver and tow vehicle are over whelmed by the the disturbing factors and the outfit then becomes controllable.

The speed at which this happens is not fixed, because the other external forces are continually changing. Road surface, side winds and their directions, other vehicles with bow waves, and slip streams, rain or freezing conditions.

So for this reason, not only will two drivers of the same outfit have a different view on the degree of stability, every drivers view must constantly be revised depending on the external factors.

 

[Lutz]

The report from the University of Bath showed that every outfit has a threshold speed above which it becomes unstable. In the case of the outfits that they investigated this speed was around 55mph. This means that as soon as 55mph is exceeded, the outfit will, at the slightest provocation such as a gust of crosswind or steering input, go into an unstable condition that will inevitably result in an accident unless there is intervention on the part of the driver or other active control system such as an electronic stabiliser on car and/or caravan, where fitted. The threshold speed is specific to each combination and only a few have been investigated, but indications are that, for typical car/caravan outfits, this speed is never going to be much above 60mph. Of course, if conditions are ideal and there is nothing to incite instability, the outfit will roll along quite happily at 70+mph, but it does mean that speed can be a cause of an accident unless avertive action is taken, not only a factor which determines its severity.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

while I would agree that speed is a factor that must be taken into consideration when talking about instability it is not the only issue just one of them, because a particular unit in the hands of one driver may be stable at speed it could be grossly unstable in the hands of others at a far lower speed.

far too many units are on the road with drivers that have a poor understanding of what is required to tow a trailer safely immaterial of the speed acheived while actually towing.

I will make a bet that everyone has been guilty of assuming "it will be allright because syndrome" on a short tow from site to site or for a quick weekend away.

and of course there are the ones who actually don't have a clue about what they are doing, never been on a forum, dont know the law regading weights, dont know how to pack the van, or plan their route. just hang it on and go. some forum members are no better with comments like "my vehicle is good as a tow car I don't even know the van is on the back" which assumes at times they drive with a trailer the same as they do solo and forget they are towing.

so while speed is important, it is not as important as knowing the limits of the unit and the driver.

colin

 

[joeby]

every body assumes that the car and van are in good condition ,what about the van thats been sat on a season pitch for 9 months ,tyres never been rotated ,brake drums rusty ,he may have hit a kerb ,and the suspension is out of alighnment ,the same with a car ,could have faulty shocks ,how many people do you see bumping up the kerb to park there car half on the pavement ,does not do the tyres or suspension any good ,could also have play in the steering ,i asked a relative if he checked his tyre pressures ,he said no ,when he did check them they were 10 psi below on the caravan

 

[Lutz]

The same applies to cars though too, not just caravans.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

joby

if the car and van are not in top condition it should not be used on the public road FULL STOP.

 

[rob_jax]

What does "top condition" mean?

Does it mean that caravans without shock absorbers are unacceptable? or that cars without ABS should be in some way restricted when towing?

In reality most people will have their caravan (and car) serviced by an accredited service centre, or independent centre, or perform routine maintenance work themselves.

Let's leave aside whether those people have been properly trained, and just look at caravans, then unlike say Holland or Germany, there is no independent assessment in the UK of the roadworthiness of a caravan - and people hope and assume that servicing has been carried out to an acceptable standard.

Robert

 

[Dave_374330759]

I've just had a shufti at my caravan spec (Bailey Pageant series 6) and according to the info it's good for up to 81mph (130kph) where the law allows - The law doesn't allow it in this country but that doesn't mean that its inherently dangerous to tow at these speeds providing the van is loaded correctly and the tug and driver are up to the job. Breaking the law aside,it's our crap roads and other drivers that make it unwise.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi rob

by top condition I mean serviceable ie: if it is fitted it should work like brakes, tyres, over run damper, lights,.

the suggestion was quote" every body assumes that the car and van are in good condition ,what about the van thats been sat on a season pitch for 9 months ,tyres never been rotated ,brake drums rusty ect"

I was responding to this pointing out that such a van or car should not be used on the public road if it was faulty,

the level of sophistication of the van or tow car is to me irrelevent however all the parts fitted should work correctly.

colin

 

[joeby]

joby

if the car and van are not in top condition it should not be used on the public road FULL STOP.

we know it shouldnt be on the the road , but as you said there are those that dont know what they are doing

 

[Gafferbill]

I've just had a shufti at my caravan spec (Bailey Pageant series 6) and according to the info it's good for up to 81mph (130kph) where the law allows - The law doesn't allow it in this country but that doesn't mean that its inherently dangerous to tow at these speeds providing the van is loaded correctly and the tug and driver are up to the job. Breaking the law aside,it's our crap roads and other drivers that make it unwise.

Bailey are quoting the limits and specification of the tyres they supply the caravan with.

YOU are the "other" driver to the rest of us!