I travel on the A1 to and from work everday. Today I "followed" another enormous van being towed by a 4x4 with the mudflaps dragging on the floor at 37mph. I wouldn't have minded but, there were only two people in it (including the driver hanging on for grim death)!!! We are not the most popular road users and this sort of behavior is as anti-social as speeding, this was especially noticable today as the van in questin was overtaken by a tractor towing a trailer full of carrots. If you are too scared to tow at a reasonable speed or your van is just too big don't do it stay at home
towing speeds
- Thread starter gareth_5110659
- Start date
Hello Gareth,
I agree that slow moving vehicles can be a pain and a source of frustration for other road users, But perhaps this unfortunate soul has some problem with the tow vehicle which prevented him from going any faster.
If he has paid his tax and insurance and the vehicle was road worthy, then he has as much right to use the highway as anyone else, including you. As no minimum speed limit was in force, was he breaking any law?
I agree that slow moving vehicles can be a pain and a source of frustration for other road users, But perhaps this unfortunate soul has some problem with the tow vehicle which prevented him from going any faster.
If he has paid his tax and insurance and the vehicle was road worthy, then he has as much right to use the highway as anyone else, including you. As no minimum speed limit was in force, was he breaking any law?
No they weren't breaking the letter of the law but my point is that this kind of towing behaviour just annoys the general public and encourages the poor image of our hobby.
I'm with you on this one, Gareth.We have enough bad press as it is.This could be construed as a self inflicted wound!
If any person tows at that speed WITHOUT REASON I have to agree with Gareth. I've just spent 2 hours trying to explain to a friend (who is interested in taking up caravanning) that the negative images of caravanners is a load of cr*p. He too is one who moaned in the past about caravans, his son even laughed at the idea of him having one. People dawdling along at silly speeds don't help our cause at all.
Too true! Slow progress can be as dangerous as speeding. Unfortunately the law doesn't allow for this, although police have discretionary powers, it would be hard to prove in a court of law. What also appals is the implied loading of the caravan. Just because someone tows with a 4x4, it doesn't mean you can ignore your weights. Thankfully, these people are few and far between, the vast majority of vanners acting responsibly and lawfully. It would be a shame to put anyone off the pastime of caravans, just because there are a few uneducated souls out there.
Ohh, the Stella is kicking in....
Ohh, the Stella is kicking in....
In the absence of minimum speed limit legislation, it's not specifically an offence to drive at 37 when the limit is 50/60 BUT the offences of "causing an obstruction" and "driving without due care and consideration for other road users" could be used for a prosecution.
For the Advanced Driving Test and police driving tests, driving at less than 90% of the relevant speed limit is a failure, if it's safe to drive at a higher speed.
Given Gareth's description of "mudflaps dragging on the floor" it's quite likely that this outfit was seriously overloaded, perhaps even 37 was too fast for safety. If this was the case it simply shouldn't have been on the road.
For the Advanced Driving Test and police driving tests, driving at less than 90% of the relevant speed limit is a failure, if it's safe to drive at a higher speed.
Given Gareth's description of "mudflaps dragging on the floor" it's quite likely that this outfit was seriously overloaded, perhaps even 37 was too fast for safety. If this was the case it simply shouldn't have been on the road.
I agree with other comments regarding the speed of this mobile chicane, but I would like to know two things, 1st- what is classed as an enormous caravan ( ie the largest hobby )and secondly, what type of 4x4 was towing it, was it one up to the job or one thats been round the world ten times and runs like a burst gutty.
Yes I can't help but feel there must have been something amiss with the towcar. I tow what some regard as an enormous 'van (a 23ft Hobby) and even fully loaded the rear of my car drops about an inch, and is more than capable of towing upto the speed limits. To be fair to Gareth though, I often see frightening looking outfits, obviously overloaded and struggling and they undoubtedly give the rest of us a bad name. One of the most worrying outfits I've seen was a Tabbert Comtesse (about 24/25ft) being towed on the M90 by a Ford Escort TD.
Everytime I mention caravans at work the guy's take the "Michael" and say us caravanners are the cause of all holiday hold ups.
NOT TRUE.
I guess the poor guy had got something wrong with the tow car or the load distribution in the van.
I had to limp home once when a wheel bearing was clapping out on our twin axle. Most of the time when towing our Link 575 (20ft) behind our Laguna 2Ltr estate (2 wheel drive) it's car drivers who hold me up.
For over thirty years I've towed and driven some of the biggest combinations and found that if loaded correctly they present no problem. I think the worst one was towing a Jag 420 on an Ifor Williams goods trailer back to Herefordshire behind a 2Ltr Espace from Glasgow. Yep it was well over loaded, but still I could do 50Mph on the motorway and 45Mph on the other roads. The hitch weight was correct at 75Kgs so that the brakes worked fine. But the train weight was probably a ton over that specified by the manufacturer.
I know. I should be ashammed to admit to this blatent law breaking, but I fly the confederate flag, Yeh ha.
The point is though, if the unit is loaded simpathetically to the car the tow car can cope so long as there is not a malfunction, and the driver drives within his/her limits.
I must of pulled over two dozen times on the A49 from Warrington to Leominster to let traffic pass and not one thank you or a friendly wave!!??
Plenty of remenstration that it was the second time today they'd been slowed up.
Dog nab it, I'll get the general out and read the kilometers on the speedo that'll slow em down.
NOT TRUE.
I guess the poor guy had got something wrong with the tow car or the load distribution in the van.
I had to limp home once when a wheel bearing was clapping out on our twin axle. Most of the time when towing our Link 575 (20ft) behind our Laguna 2Ltr estate (2 wheel drive) it's car drivers who hold me up.
For over thirty years I've towed and driven some of the biggest combinations and found that if loaded correctly they present no problem. I think the worst one was towing a Jag 420 on an Ifor Williams goods trailer back to Herefordshire behind a 2Ltr Espace from Glasgow. Yep it was well over loaded, but still I could do 50Mph on the motorway and 45Mph on the other roads. The hitch weight was correct at 75Kgs so that the brakes worked fine. But the train weight was probably a ton over that specified by the manufacturer.
I know. I should be ashammed to admit to this blatent law breaking, but I fly the confederate flag, Yeh ha.
The point is though, if the unit is loaded simpathetically to the car the tow car can cope so long as there is not a malfunction, and the driver drives within his/her limits.
I must of pulled over two dozen times on the A49 from Warrington to Leominster to let traffic pass and not one thank you or a friendly wave!!??
Plenty of remenstration that it was the second time today they'd been slowed up.
Dog nab it, I'll get the general out and read the kilometers on the speedo that'll slow em down.
Nice and valid comments Steve I enjoyed reading your post. Too true though regarding pulling over for the traffic to pass. On a recent trip to Oban in Scotland I think I pulled over about four times each way and not one car driver thanked me. But a mile or so down the road at the lights or a junction there they all were so whats the point?
Tom
Tom
The aspect that concerns me most about your observations on this 4x4 is the fact that its mud flaps were nearly dragging along the floor! Assuming that the driver was not driving that slowly because of some form of mechanical failure and that his/her outfit was just plainly unsuitable due to overloading/incorrect noseweight/fatigued tow car then I agree totally with your comments that this kind of irresponsible behaviour tars us all with the same brush.
However.... I recently had the privilege of collecting our first ever caravan, with the prospect of a 200 mile journey ahead of me. Not only did I have to come to terms with the outfits increased dimensions, turning and manoeuvering capabilities and reduced performance, but our tow car developed a mechanical problem that resulted in me having to travel at about 50-55mph on M-ways, substantially reduced acceleration and a feeling of 'Oh no! not another hill; are e going to make it' whenever we hit an uphill gradient, irrespective of angle.
One thing that that did occur to me was the fact that other motorists were obviously unaware that this was my first ever attempt at towing. Although I had attended a CC manouevering course prior to collecting my caravan, towing on the public highway is totally different to practising on private land.
As those who have just passed their driving test display a green 'L' plate, could not those new to caravanning also choose to display a similar sign? Perhaps a blue 'L' plate, to designate a new tower? If nothing else, it may give other motorists the opportunity to either give a slightly wider berth when passing, or to show a little more restraint/empathy/understanding.
I know that the Highway Code and relevant Traffic legislation make no allowance for 'new drivers' and that every road user irrespective of experience must display the same duty of care than the next driver.
I am not aware that anybody travelling at less than the speed limit could be prosecuted for either obstruction or driving without due care and attention! Indeed, a person collecting their first ever caravan and who drove at 37mph albeit not on a motorway, could argue that he/she was exercising exceptional due care and attention owing to their inexperience.
I am also surprised to learn of a 90% rule applicable to various driving tests including those of Her Majesty's constabulary. I always thought that accelerating to and maintaining a speed commensurate with the speed limit in force was 'where circumstances dictate and where it is safe to do so'. Certainly there is a rule of guidance that a driver should not exceed 9/10ths of either his/her or their vehicles capabilities. This does not however equate to 9/10ths of the speed limit.
Finally, I tow my caravan with a 12 seat Land Rover. Do you know the speed limit for my vehicle on a single carriageway national speed limit road or motorway for that matter? Do you know what my towing speed limits are on the above roads? For those motorists that get 'stuck' behind me on a single carraigeway national speed limit road, I can assure you that I am not holding you up; I am constrained by law to the speed limit (lower than you may think and certainly lower than the limit imposed for most tow vehicles)imposed on my vehicle.
However.... I recently had the privilege of collecting our first ever caravan, with the prospect of a 200 mile journey ahead of me. Not only did I have to come to terms with the outfits increased dimensions, turning and manoeuvering capabilities and reduced performance, but our tow car developed a mechanical problem that resulted in me having to travel at about 50-55mph on M-ways, substantially reduced acceleration and a feeling of 'Oh no! not another hill; are e going to make it' whenever we hit an uphill gradient, irrespective of angle.
One thing that that did occur to me was the fact that other motorists were obviously unaware that this was my first ever attempt at towing. Although I had attended a CC manouevering course prior to collecting my caravan, towing on the public highway is totally different to practising on private land.
As those who have just passed their driving test display a green 'L' plate, could not those new to caravanning also choose to display a similar sign? Perhaps a blue 'L' plate, to designate a new tower? If nothing else, it may give other motorists the opportunity to either give a slightly wider berth when passing, or to show a little more restraint/empathy/understanding.
I know that the Highway Code and relevant Traffic legislation make no allowance for 'new drivers' and that every road user irrespective of experience must display the same duty of care than the next driver.
I am not aware that anybody travelling at less than the speed limit could be prosecuted for either obstruction or driving without due care and attention! Indeed, a person collecting their first ever caravan and who drove at 37mph albeit not on a motorway, could argue that he/she was exercising exceptional due care and attention owing to their inexperience.
I am also surprised to learn of a 90% rule applicable to various driving tests including those of Her Majesty's constabulary. I always thought that accelerating to and maintaining a speed commensurate with the speed limit in force was 'where circumstances dictate and where it is safe to do so'. Certainly there is a rule of guidance that a driver should not exceed 9/10ths of either his/her or their vehicles capabilities. This does not however equate to 9/10ths of the speed limit.
Finally, I tow my caravan with a 12 seat Land Rover. Do you know the speed limit for my vehicle on a single carriageway national speed limit road or motorway for that matter? Do you know what my towing speed limits are on the above roads? For those motorists that get 'stuck' behind me on a single carraigeway national speed limit road, I can assure you that I am not holding you up; I am constrained by law to the speed limit (lower than you may think and certainly lower than the limit imposed for most tow vehicles)imposed on my vehicle.
Hello Peri
My points exactly, The driver Gareth encountered may have had a perfectly good legitimate reason for only travelling at 37mph, and it is all to easy for other road users to be ignorant of those reasons, and consequently believe the sloth is a result of other avoidable reasons.
The other point that Gareth missed was to tell us what the speed limit for the stretch of road was, so 37 in a 60 ( for caravans) may seem slow, but if it was as 50 or only a 40 limit the difference is much less.
I get as frustrated as the next driver when I can't make good headway. I believe drivers should attempt to maintain a speed that does not impede other road users but only when it is safe to do so and legal.
My points exactly, The driver Gareth encountered may have had a perfectly good legitimate reason for only travelling at 37mph, and it is all to easy for other road users to be ignorant of those reasons, and consequently believe the sloth is a result of other avoidable reasons.
The other point that Gareth missed was to tell us what the speed limit for the stretch of road was, so 37 in a 60 ( for caravans) may seem slow, but if it was as 50 or only a 40 limit the difference is much less.
I get as frustrated as the next driver when I can't make good headway. I believe drivers should attempt to maintain a speed that does not impede other road users but only when it is safe to do so and legal.
Just thought that I had better give some more details on the "offending outfit" and the road conditions.
It was a clear dry day the national speed limit was in force.
The car was a mitsubishi pajero SWB(grey import of a shogun?)The van was a twin axle bessacarr it looked about 20' to me. This is obviously clearly within the towing limit. Can't explain why the mudflaps were dragging but if it was a suspension failure it shouldn't be on the road it should be on the back of a low loader.
I am not trying to say that I am perfect but, I spent a lot of time ensuring that my car matches the caravan in terms of weight, tow hitch to rear axle length engine power etc. I also spend money ensuring that if I do have a problem there is a recovery system for the car and caravan.
The car I tow with is a compromise in terms of fuel economy, tax etc as the engine is dirty (in terms of CO2 emmisions) but it suits my towing and family needs. I am just making an observation that on Friday and thursday afternoon there are a significant minority of obviously miss matched and unstable outfits on the A1. How many times do you hear on the radio that a caravan is blocking both lanes of the A1, M! M6 etc
It was a clear dry day the national speed limit was in force.
The car was a mitsubishi pajero SWB(grey import of a shogun?)The van was a twin axle bessacarr it looked about 20' to me. This is obviously clearly within the towing limit. Can't explain why the mudflaps were dragging but if it was a suspension failure it shouldn't be on the road it should be on the back of a low loader.
I am not trying to say that I am perfect but, I spent a lot of time ensuring that my car matches the caravan in terms of weight, tow hitch to rear axle length engine power etc. I also spend money ensuring that if I do have a problem there is a recovery system for the car and caravan.
The car I tow with is a compromise in terms of fuel economy, tax etc as the engine is dirty (in terms of CO2 emmisions) but it suits my towing and family needs. I am just making an observation that on Friday and thursday afternoon there are a significant minority of obviously miss matched and unstable outfits on the A1. How many times do you hear on the radio that a caravan is blocking both lanes of the A1, M! M6 etc
Damian
Moderator
How was it an "offending outfit"? it was not breaking any laws, merely travelling at a speed which you found to be not to your liking.
As for the comment:How many times do you hear on the radio that a caravan is blocking both lanes of the A1, M! M6 etc
Not as many times as multiple pile ups caused by people traveling TOO fast, and not being able to stop.
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