i have just had two confickting pieces of advice from caravan dealers. I am looking to buy a different van and have been told i am towing my exsisting model againt the law. my car has a max tow weight of 1100kg which i did not know but the van max weight is 1150kg.the cars kerb weight is 1340kg i thought as long as the loaded van was lighter than the kerb weight of the car this was ok? the other dealer said this was ok. i am confused. help?
towing weight
- Thread starter DAVID_374306224
- Start date
The dealer is right. The maximum tow weight is NOT the maximum weight of the caravan but its axle weight. Therefore, if its maximum weight is 1150kg and the noseweight at least 50kg, the actual towload will be 1100kg or less, so you would be under the limit specified by the car manufacturer.
The fact that the loaded van must weigh less than the kerbweight of the car only determines what driving licence you need, not any legal technical towing limit of the car.
The fact that the loaded van must weigh less than the kerbweight of the car only determines what driving licence you need, not any legal technical towing limit of the car.
so what you are saying is that if my car has a manufac towing limit of 1100kg 1 can tow a van a bit more than this as long as it does not excede the cars kerb weight?
No. You may to more than 1100kgs as long as the total gross weight of your 'van minus its noseweight is not more than 1100kgs. ie If your 'van is 1130kgs and the noseweight is 70kgs the towload is technically only 1060kgs.
You must never tow more than the manufactuter's tow limit regardless of kerbweight. If you do you are breaking the law.
You must never tow more than the manufactuter's tow limit regardless of kerbweight. If you do you are breaking the law.
The Gross Train Weight mustn't be exceeded. If the car is loaded lightly the Towing Limit can be legally exceeded but the recommendations (not legally binding) of 85% Towing Ratio still apply.
No, the towing limit may not be exceeded even if you remain within the maximum permissible gross train weight.
Roger is basically right.
First of all your car's tow limit is that specified by the manufacturer. This is the maximum weight of a trailer to be towed.
Secondly, the law states that you must nnot exceed the gross train weight specified on the VIN plate for your car and this does include all occupants including the driver.
Third, you can tow a heavier van so long as you do not exceed any of the abouve specifications. For example you could tow a van rated at 1250Kgs max gross weight and load it to 1150Kgs with a hitch weight of 75Kgs and be within your cars tow capacity by 25Kgs if the nose weight is aportioned to the cars weight. But you might not be able to use the car's full carrying capacity.
However, the boys from VOSA are interested mainly in the gross train weights and so long as your within your specisied weight (plus 3%) they will be happy.
They are not the big bad wolves people make them out to be and by contacting your local VOSA testing station they will be only to pleased to advise.
Steve L.
First of all your car's tow limit is that specified by the manufacturer. This is the maximum weight of a trailer to be towed.
Secondly, the law states that you must nnot exceed the gross train weight specified on the VIN plate for your car and this does include all occupants including the driver.
Third, you can tow a heavier van so long as you do not exceed any of the abouve specifications. For example you could tow a van rated at 1250Kgs max gross weight and load it to 1150Kgs with a hitch weight of 75Kgs and be within your cars tow capacity by 25Kgs if the nose weight is aportioned to the cars weight. But you might not be able to use the car's full carrying capacity.
However, the boys from VOSA are interested mainly in the gross train weights and so long as your within your specisied weight (plus 3%) they will be happy.
They are not the big bad wolves people make them out to be and by contacting your local VOSA testing station they will be only to pleased to advise.
Steve L.
If the maximum towload of the car is 1100kg, then the caravan may weigh 1100kg PLUS the noseload of, say 75kg, i.e. 1175kg, provided you do exceed neither the specified gross train weight nor the GVW of the car.
Conversely, if the caravan weighs 1150kg fully laden, then the towload would be 1150kg MINUS noseweight, i.e. 1075kg.
Conversely, if the caravan weighs 1150kg fully laden, then the towload would be 1150kg MINUS noseweight, i.e. 1075kg.
ALL good advice and correct but a a large majority of caravanners will still be confused with all the different weights and limits, you would be far better off getting a more capable tow car, if you are towing so near the cars limits it will be all too easy to find yourself on the wrong side of the law or worse uninsured.
We have had this conversation so many times regarding removing the noseweight from the vans mtplm and it usually comes down to the fact it really is not worth being so close to your limit, if you are unfortunate enough to be stopped and weighed your average boy in blue will not have a clue what you are talking about and hours will be wasted whilst the vehicle inspectorate is called out.
It sounds to me like one dealer just wants a sale and the other wants a safe sale.
We have had this conversation so many times regarding removing the noseweight from the vans mtplm and it usually comes down to the fact it really is not worth being so close to your limit, if you are unfortunate enough to be stopped and weighed your average boy in blue will not have a clue what you are talking about and hours will be wasted whilst the vehicle inspectorate is called out.
It sounds to me like one dealer just wants a sale and the other wants a safe sale.
Fair comment, Icemaker, but if you've got your mind set on a particular caravan that happens to be close to the limit and you don't want to have to buy a new towcar just for the 2 to 3 times a year that you may be towing, it's something that does have to be considered.
hi guys
Iv'e been away for a few days and just picked up on this thread and now i'm really upset.
when I was looking for another car after the mondeo died, I found what I thought was the perfect replacement a rover 45 2.0td special edition, leather trim electric everything.
fell I love with it, BUT: rovers max tow weight on all 45 models is 1000kg despite the 100+ bhp and a kerb weight of nearly 1300kg that model, I was convinced my bailey ranger 1058kg MTPLM (81% overall) was too heavy to be towed legally.
now after reading this tread it seems I could have deducted the noseweight of 75kg off the trailer weight getting it down to 983kg and been perfectly LEGAL.
DAM.DAM.DAM.DAM.
THANKS GUYS
colin
Iv'e been away for a few days and just picked up on this thread and now i'm really upset.
when I was looking for another car after the mondeo died, I found what I thought was the perfect replacement a rover 45 2.0td special edition, leather trim electric everything.
fell I love with it, BUT: rovers max tow weight on all 45 models is 1000kg despite the 100+ bhp and a kerb weight of nearly 1300kg that model, I was convinced my bailey ranger 1058kg MTPLM (81% overall) was too heavy to be towed legally.
now after reading this tread it seems I could have deducted the noseweight of 75kg off the trailer weight getting it down to 983kg and been perfectly LEGAL.
DAM.DAM.DAM.DAM.
THANKS GUYS
colin
Talking about keeping it basic so that people understand, then there are only four weights that the ministry want to know about.
1/ Gross train weight. This is the weight of the car plus caravan and all occupants at the time they check it.
2/ Gross vehicle weight. This is the weight of the car un-coupled from the trailer but with all occupants as above.
3/ Gross trailer weight. this is the total weight of your caravan as it is loaded and not attatched to the car. this weight must not (within +3%) exceed the weight stated on the manufacturers weight plate specification.
4/ The hitch weight (nose weight). This is the amount of gravitational down force place on the tow bar of the tow car. Both the caravan manufacturer and tow bar manufacturer have specific max limits for this. You must use the lowest specified weight as your hitch weight.
You can check weights 1-3 at your local public weigh bridge, normally found at a farmers seed mechant. The operators are usually very helpful and for about a tenner you'll find out what your outfit actually weighs if you load it to the same level as you would for your main holiday.
The nose weight can be simply done by using a set of bathroom scales and a piece of 3/4 plywood.
Place the ply wood (cut to the platform size of the scales) on the scale deck to add strength.
Set the scales to zero.
Having put the hitch height (using the jockey wheel) close to that of the car.
Wind down the front steady legs.
Wind up the jockey wheel.
Place the scales under the jockey wheel and wind down until the steady legs are clear of the ground by about an inch.
Take the scale reading.
If the hitch weight is incorrect just wind up the jockey wheel and adjust your loading and then try again.
SAFETY NOTE:- At ALL times ensure the parking brake is on and that you have chocks behind the wheels of the caravan to prevent rolling away.
Regards Steve L.
1/ Gross train weight. This is the weight of the car plus caravan and all occupants at the time they check it.
2/ Gross vehicle weight. This is the weight of the car un-coupled from the trailer but with all occupants as above.
3/ Gross trailer weight. this is the total weight of your caravan as it is loaded and not attatched to the car. this weight must not (within +3%) exceed the weight stated on the manufacturers weight plate specification.
4/ The hitch weight (nose weight). This is the amount of gravitational down force place on the tow bar of the tow car. Both the caravan manufacturer and tow bar manufacturer have specific max limits for this. You must use the lowest specified weight as your hitch weight.
You can check weights 1-3 at your local public weigh bridge, normally found at a farmers seed mechant. The operators are usually very helpful and for about a tenner you'll find out what your outfit actually weighs if you load it to the same level as you would for your main holiday.
The nose weight can be simply done by using a set of bathroom scales and a piece of 3/4 plywood.
Place the ply wood (cut to the platform size of the scales) on the scale deck to add strength.
Set the scales to zero.
Having put the hitch height (using the jockey wheel) close to that of the car.
Wind down the front steady legs.
Wind up the jockey wheel.
Place the scales under the jockey wheel and wind down until the steady legs are clear of the ground by about an inch.
Take the scale reading.
If the hitch weight is incorrect just wind up the jockey wheel and adjust your loading and then try again.
SAFETY NOTE:- At ALL times ensure the parking brake is on and that you have chocks behind the wheels of the caravan to prevent rolling away.
Regards Steve L.
Hi Steve,
I agree that you can get the nose weight with bathroom scales but, if you put the scales under the jockey wheel you will not get an accurate reading for nose weight as the jockey wheel (normally) is set back from the hitch coupling. You can do it if you have the right length of wood (so the hitch is the same height as it would be on the tow bar) and go from the coupling to the scales this should give a more accurate reading, or you could buy a purpose built nose weight gauge for between
I agree that you can get the nose weight with bathroom scales but, if you put the scales under the jockey wheel you will not get an accurate reading for nose weight as the jockey wheel (normally) is set back from the hitch coupling. You can do it if you have the right length of wood (so the hitch is the same height as it would be on the tow bar) and go from the coupling to the scales this should give a more accurate reading, or you could buy a purpose built nose weight gauge for between
We've had lots of noseweight discussions too.
If you measure noseweight with the caravan brakes applied, you may get an incorrect reading. It's better to chock the wheels. The caravan must be level, and the hitch at the same height as if it was attached to the towing vehicle.
To be perfectly accurate you would take (say) 10 readings with the caravan facing one way, and then 10 more with it facing the other way. Or 5 each facing each point of the compass if you're really fussy. Then take the average.
But it's really too much fuss. Noseweight will almost always change from trip to trip, as few people will load precisely the same stuff in the same place every time. As long as you're within (say) 10kg of your target noseweight and you have measured it fairly accurately, then that will do. The Plods would not be able to measure any more accurately than you.
If you measure noseweight with the caravan brakes applied, you may get an incorrect reading. It's better to chock the wheels. The caravan must be level, and the hitch at the same height as if it was attached to the towing vehicle.
To be perfectly accurate you would take (say) 10 readings with the caravan facing one way, and then 10 more with it facing the other way. Or 5 each facing each point of the compass if you're really fussy. Then take the average.
But it's really too much fuss. Noseweight will almost always change from trip to trip, as few people will load precisely the same stuff in the same place every time. As long as you're within (say) 10kg of your target noseweight and you have measured it fairly accurately, then that will do. The Plods would not be able to measure any more accurately than you.
There's a bit of a contradiction in that last reply. If noseweight is measured with the hitch at the same height as if it was attached to the towing vehicle (which is correct), the caravan will not necessarily be level. The ground on which it is standing should be level, though.
Thanks for clarifying that Lutz. What I was concerned about was the advice "At ALL times ensure the parking brake is on and that you have chocks behind the wheels of the caravan to prevent rolling away". If the measuring is being done in the right location, then the caravan shouldn't roll anywhere.
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