Towing with a pick up truck who does it?
- Thread starter X111TOM
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There was a forum member who used a Isuzu pickup for a family tow vehicle. He toured a lot but then medical conditions led him to have to change for a MB Sprinter fior accessibility. A search may bring up some of his earlier posts.
PS search Isuzu and /or L200 against ‘any time’ posts and you will see the posts.
PS search Isuzu and /or L200 against ‘any time’ posts and you will see the posts.
My window cleanet bought a brand new Navaro then he bought a new Swift Challenger, he doe's not clean my windows anymore ,
If you have any warranty left on your caravan it's worth checking the terms and conditions to see if the caravan manufacture may have any clauses about towing with a commercial vehicle.
Generally pickups are designed to carry a load and their rear suspension is somewhat stiffer than normal domestic vehicles. This can cause much more aggressive shock loading to be transmitted through the tow bar back into a towed caravan.
Also the height of the tow ball is not regulated as it is for domestic vehicles, and this might make the caravan more likely to ground at the front or rear depending on the height of the tow ball. It's also worth noting that dropper plates can only be used if they are type approved for the vehicle.
Generally pickups are designed to carry a load and their rear suspension is somewhat stiffer than normal domestic vehicles. This can cause much more aggressive shock loading to be transmitted through the tow bar back into a towed caravan.
Also the height of the tow ball is not regulated as it is for domestic vehicles, and this might make the caravan more likely to ground at the front or rear depending on the height of the tow ball. It's also worth noting that dropper plates can only be used if they are type approved for the vehicle.
Spot on and he is thinking of moving up to a motor home , obviously I think more is going inhis back pocket,Gafferbill said:camel said:
...........you were obviously paying him too much
Just bought a new Nissan Navara to tow our Bucaneer-yet to run in so we can't try it yet; will let you know but our dealer uses the same vehicle! Nuff said-3500 kg capacity 190bhp and multilink coil rear supsension so pretty comfy!
Do be aware of the Prof's post as it is essential to be sure of your position. If you specify a pick up with a tow bar specify the height and that the electrics are correct for a caravan. Possibly better to get a specialist fitter for the tow bar as they will normally be more aware of the regulations and your needs.
Have already checked the Towball is alko compatible; simple job with a tape measure and the specs down loaded from Alko website itself and specified Nissan original 5 year warranty towbar and electrics specifically for the caravan; 13 pin; can't foresee any issues says he hopefully!
It really does not matter what any one else does, Even if they are a dealer, if you want to retain your full manufacturers warranty you must follow the terms and conditions and if they say no towing with commercial vehicles that's what it means.
EH52ARH said:
If the caravan manufacturer makes such a limitation in their T&C's, then you would need to check with them to get their definition of what constitutes a commercial vehicle.
Think the Amorok was tested in tow car of the year awards, so why would they test if not suitable?
It does not matter what vehicle it is, if it is being used for hire and reward then its a commercial vehicle, take for example the people doing Hermes home deliveres in their csrs they will have to have business or commercial use insurance, in the past when I have used my own car in connection with work I had to change the insurance to business use , so it does not matter if its a pick up or steam roller if it is being used commercially then its a commercial vehicle,
Whilst I know the limitation was included in some manufacturers warranty terms and conditions, I don't know if any still maintain the clause. Check your own warranty documentation.
But I am certain the reason for its inclusion was not about the legal status of whether a vehicle was used for commercial purposes or not, but it was about the potential for damage that vehicles designed for commercial use might inflict becasue of their typically stiffer springing generating much greater shock loads to be transmitted back through the tow hitch to the caravan.
Increased shock loads can have a marked detrimental effect on the caravan structure and fittings and that would be classed as abnormal usage and thus excluded from normal warranty provisions.
There is also the coupling height issue which for commercial vehicles is not governed by the EU's domestic vehicle 350 to 420mm regulation. so there could be miss match that causes the hitch or the rear of the caravan to be more prone to grounding.
If you want clarity on the subject contact your caravan manufacturer's warranty department. For those caravans outside of warranty or the 6 year cover of the CRA its for the owner to decide whether to take the risk or not.
But I am certain the reason for its inclusion was not about the legal status of whether a vehicle was used for commercial purposes or not, but it was about the potential for damage that vehicles designed for commercial use might inflict becasue of their typically stiffer springing generating much greater shock loads to be transmitted back through the tow hitch to the caravan.
Increased shock loads can have a marked detrimental effect on the caravan structure and fittings and that would be classed as abnormal usage and thus excluded from normal warranty provisions.
There is also the coupling height issue which for commercial vehicles is not governed by the EU's domestic vehicle 350 to 420mm regulation. so there could be miss match that causes the hitch or the rear of the caravan to be more prone to grounding.
If you want clarity on the subject contact your caravan manufacturer's warranty department. For those caravans outside of warranty or the 6 year cover of the CRA its for the owner to decide whether to take the risk or not.
I agree with the Prof's point on the warranty, you should check with the caravan builder on this if you have a warranty or you might lose it. The problem is that the harder suspension has been known to damage the caravan chassis usually on longer chassis and particularly twin axles. Modern chassis are far lighter and less able to handle the stresses of very hard suspensions although some pick ups now are far softer than they were. One engineer who serviced our caravan did say that even Hobbys suffered from chassis damage from time to time due to the harder suspension on their Transits.
I did see details of tow bar heights, and for small pick ups the height should be the same as for cars but bigger ones like transits are different. You would need to specify wiring for a caravan though as otherwise you will not be able to charge the battery or run the fridge when towing.
I did see details of tow bar heights, and for small pick ups the height should be the same as for cars but bigger ones like transits are different. You would need to specify wiring for a caravan though as otherwise you will not be able to charge the battery or run the fridge when towing.
The Prof, still does mot explain what a commercial vehicle is , always remember Chris Eubankte boxer driving rud Brighton in a big american truck but itwasnot plated had its turtable removed and he just droe it like was his own personal vehicle but he could not use it for hire and reward,
camel said:
Camel
It's not my definition that's important.
Its what the caravan manufacture defines as a commercial vehicle if it affects their warranty conditions. Consult your caravan manufacturer.
As above best to check it you are worried. Bailey must be happy as they tested the Isuzu,Amarok,Navara, etc in the caravan club towcart awards. In my mind it means that the caravan is then being used commercially but!!!!!! I've read 're hard suspension but i really don't get that given the hammer the chassis here on the road surface these days! In another note how would they know? Our dealer wouldn't know what car we turned up in !(just saying!) We
Ultimately though as above ask if in doubt!
Ultimately though as above ask if in doubt!
JezzerB said:
Defender station wagons aren’t renowned for being soft on their rear end but plenty tow caravans.
JezzerB said:
I worked for a company as part of their R&D department and we were asked to assess some products that had been returned under warranty. There were certain characteristics to types of failures that clearly pointed the fact the product had been subjected to abnormal stress leading to failure. Those characteristics were subtly different to failures due to faulty materials or manufacture. It would not surprise me if either the caravan or chassis manufacture could have similar insight into the types of damage and how it's caused to their products.
But in terms of caravan warranties, there is usually a clause that leaves the final decision in the hands of the manufacture, and if they suspect the way the caravan has been used or towed breaches any of their warranty T&Cs then they are likely to refuse to accept liability.
I think it was Otherclive who has had a collapsed caravan suspension issue, and how the companies wriggled to avoid liability. You might want to search for it and read it.
Regardless of what you may have seen others do with their caravans, if you don't want to invalidate your warranty read the T&Cs.. If they say no commercial vehicles, and your using a vehicle that is designed to be used for commercial purposes (even if it's been purchased and used for private transport) you should seek clarification from the caravan manufacturer.
I hope caravan manufacturers don't deliver their finished csravans being towed behind a flat bed lorry that will do a lot foe their warranties
ProfJohnL said:
Prof
you are correct in that I had to have a new axle plus brake/suspension fitted last year. But the van was previously owned by a family so I had no idea has to how it had been loaded so didn't bother attempting to seek redress from the Dealer, or Swift. What was a problem was the near impossibility of getting new one fitted without using a Swift dealership. Alko raised a number of stipulations. One significant issue was trying to identify the fitted axle serial/model. Swift couldn't help other than telling me it was 1300kg max load, which tied in with its makers tally plate in the front locker. So I crawled under and photographed the axle labels consisting of information on max load, bar code and a serial number etc. But even with that information Alko were not prepared to accept responsibility for supplying a new axle assembly without precise dimensions being supplied too. So it had to go into the dealer to be put on ramps for measurements to be taken. Cottage industry or what when the maker doesn't know what is fitted. Even Hoselock sent me an O ring this week for my watering lance and whilst it was not in their normal spares listings they found out details and supplied it gratis. Perhaps Hoselock could make caravans.
So trying to obtain an axle myself from a company such as Western Towing and then having it fitted by another party would have been a contractual nightmare had anything gone wrong. So i coughed up my £1300 and had it fitted by the Swift dealership who took responsibility for the supply and fitting. I also had Alko dampers fitted which admittedly don't work as well as car dampers but do ameliorate some of the forces from our rubbish highways.
There was a spate of Alko axle failures affecting quite new Baileys and as you say most of those affected got nowhere in their claims against Dealers or Bailey even when the van was within 1-2 years old. However one person did succeed and a link to his blog is in one of my posts on "Relaxed axle". But it does illustrate how having to use CRA 2015 can be an almighty struggle if the other party doesn't want to accept liability. So if the Op has any doubt as to the suitability of the pick up I support your advice, and the OP should consult the maker (in writing).
camel said:
I have seen several Flat bed trucks with one caravan on the flat bed and another being towed, Baileys and Coachman caravans. Not sure i it a dealer or Manufacturer.
And what about the scenario of a breakdown when your car is collected by say "Gren Flag" and your caravan is towed behind.
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