Tragedy in York

[kathryn_5122141]

So very sad - just a tragic accident that could happen anywhere

I do not believe that parenting skills were so very much better in the days gone by - from my parents and grandparents stories they were left to run wild and were allowed a huge amount more freedom than children are today. My dad who grew up in Cornwall was always really strict with us because he knew the dangers of the things he got up to roaming the countryside with his brother - exploring old mines etc

I know that my grandma never wanted children because she had so many brothers and sisters and from the age of about 7 whenever she went out she had a pram to push and toddlers to look after.

My mum always tells of one of our neighbours who would go out for the evening with her husband and leave the kids in bed without a babysitter - one of whom has special needs. And this was in a middle class neighbourhood in the 70's.

I have said before that my kids are always kept in sight as they are 2 & 5 and I am often amazed at the young age of children I see wandering around whilst their parents are no-where in sight. we usually end up being an unofficial creche as we have a massive toybox of fun things in our awning.

But I don't believe this is a new phenomena and I think that parents do relax on a caravan site and think that bad things can't happen on holiday.

My thoughts are with the parents he looks like a lovely little boy and I am sure they will never get over his loss.

 

[Lutz]

I haven't stayed at Rowntree Park but I have been there and seen the conditions. Being in the middle of the city it is a relatively tight site and easy for a child to suddenly appear from behind a caravan on to the drive. As sad as it is, but I agree with Angus that, for this reason, I would consider it to be one of the less bike-friendly ones and certainly not ideal for a four year old.

 

[Angie_374313887]

My heart go out to the family,the driver and all who witnessed this terrible event.

As A Mum it is often a balancing act between doing all you can to keep your children safe whilst also allowing them a degree of "freedom" to play.

All I can say though is that in my own experience every parent has a different idea of how much freedom/supervision,and it can be a surprise.For example on our main holiday my nine year old son was playing with another in the play area and brought him over to meet us.Whereupon this boy announced that his parents had gone to the local supermarket leaving him on site!What one parent considers safe or acceptable would not neccessarily be the case in another family.

Aside from that extreme but worrying example I can only agree with other comments,that we should maybe all be more aware of our speed etc,and ensure we talk to our children about keeping safe.

Although my kids are a little older at 14,11 and 9 I will explain this story to them to bring home the message.

In this day and age people are often looking for somewhere to apportion blame,however this may well just be a tragic accident.

 

[Jo_5040485]

My thoughts are with the families involved with this sad accident.

I have 3 children of my own and mostly I'm afarid I don't take their bikes with us when we go camping because I don't feel they are safe to cycle off on their own and we wouldn't be able to fit 5 bikes in when we go away, so we could cycle with them.

I used to work as a health visitor some years ago, and I did some raod safety training then, I can remember being told about some research that had been done about when children develop the ability to judge speed and distance of other things on the road, the reasearchers had found that children under 8 didn't have the ability to judge the speed of cars or the distance they were from the car, so couldn't tell if they had enough time to cross a road safely for instance. We were advised to recomend that because of this children under 8 shouldn't be out on their own on the roads, I have to add that obviously all children develop at different rates so parents need to use their own judgement about this, but it has always stuck with me, and certainly with my own 3 I think that's been fairly accurate.

Jog

 

[Neil_5041165]

Strange, Neil, but i cant see the `fun` in kids getting injured or killed.

Must be question of priorities, you`ll have to explain.

Angus, no need to explain anything to you ! But as a matter of courtesy ; If people are already talking about the bannning of bikes on sites similarly to banning ball games there will be no reason to take children on holidays because the nanny state says they are not allowed to have fun ! When my Dad drove his car aorund site when i was a small child i could walk as fast as he would drive. There were no one way directives in deed on many sites it was a free for all and we all played cricket and football the whole site joined in kids chased around every where and when one of us tripped over a guy rope in the dark playing chase then we would be the main source of amusement. People are far more possesive and materialistic now and the health and safety governance takjes away the fun of learning by mistakes for children. No malice meant , no sick inuendo just a factual comment

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Depending on the circumstances don't be surprised to see the parents prosecuted.

 

[rayc]

It is amazing how many comments on this subject mention speed. If you were towing at 1mph on a site access road and a child rode between the car and the caravan, especially on the near side, then there is every chance of the child ending up under the caravan wheel.

We have become so fixated with speed where 29mph is "safe" and 31 mph " not safe" etc. that we have lost the ability to judge risk. The speed limit on this site is perhaps 10mph. Are we saying that if the driver is found to be doing 6 mph then he was " speeding" but 4 mph then it was just bad luck?

The only way to mitigate the chances of this happening again are a) stop vunerable children moving round on site and b) provide escorts on foot whenever a car or caravan is moved.

In my observations to most dangerous situation for children is when they first arrive on site. They are excited and want to look around. their parents are distracted with siting the caravan and getting set up.

If anybpdy is likely to be prosecuted it is the driver because he is the easy target and there are a multitude if regulations that apply to him and his vehicle. Prosecuting the parents would be very difficult, I am unsure of what the actual charge would be and to prove some form of negligence beyond reasonable doubt, and to get a jury to convict, would be nigh impossible .

 

[Darce]

Unless the driver was acting like a lunatic then I doubt a prosecution is pending - but their will be an inquest and I suspect something like Death by Misadventure will be the verdict.

The main thing that screams at me from this tragedy is how dangerous it can be when children are unsupervised

 

[Steve L]

I quite agree Darce, supervision is an excellent tool but often left at the bottom of the parental tool box.

Having caravan'd with two children and two young dogs my supervision was at full power, but not restrictive to everyone enjoying their holiday.

When we arrived on site, we would put the dogs inside the van while we set up and engage the kids in awning errection duties etc. That way they all shared a responsible job and were occupied during the euphoric hour of arrival.

Then we would excersise the dogs together at the dog walk area and generally take in the views of the site and note the location of the facilities etc.

Then we return to the van and make a few simple rules relative to the site. Things like ball games, riding bikes, letting mum & dad know whch pitch number you are at if your playing with new found friends. We would then progress onto what to do in an emergencey, where the site managers office or wardens are located etc.

Sure it might seem abit ott, but at least our kids knew what to do and what was expected of them. Did it stop them having fun, did it hell!! they'd still come back covered in mud and often with half a dozen pal's in tow. We would ask the visiting kids if their folks knew where they were and if not, we would go to their parents vans just to let them know where their off sprig were, which in turn madeus new friends on site too.

So supervised kids can equal a good time for all.

On the safety side of things my son used to promote that I was a fire marshal and a first aider and that his mum was a first aider too. This often brought a few people asking for advice about minor injuries incured and on one occassion I had an American proffessional fire marshall pay me a visit thinking I was a fellow american, as over there the title is a part of their fire and rescue status.

Again new friends made by the kids promoting safety on the campsite.

Steve L.

 

[allen1]

I have just read a report on the caravan channel website under the news heading,witnesses had seen the child had been riding his bike around the site most of the afternoon and had ridden his bike down a walkway when he collided with a caravan.

 

[sian_5062266]

I posted a message a couple of months ago about this, titled an accident waiting to happen, I've experienced most sites where the kids race around the roads in the wrong direction and when I once pointed this out to the accompanying grown up was told to naff off. On another occassion I almost collided with a very young child coming at me who couldn't stop, he appologised and proceeded to tell me he had no brakes,... what more can be said... if parents can't control their children, and adults can't observe the one way systems themselves, I see it inevitable that clubs will have no option but to ban cycling on health and safety grounds, which would be a shame all round.