Trapped traffic

[Mel]

Nice day so went for a trip out. Got trapped on the A38 dual carriageway southbound due to an accident. Must have been a nasty one because 4 police cars, 2 paramedics, an ambulance, and a fire engine went past up the middle of the two stationary lanes ( but no breakdown/tow trucks).
3 and a bit hours we were trapped there. Fortunately the weather was nice, we had no small children in the car, nowhere that we absolutely needed to be, and didn’t need a wee. Not everyone would have been in this situation. Traffic stopped for some miles.
First thoughts and prayers were with the poor people involved, and the emergency services dealing with it all. Went on Highways England/Traffic England, where the incident did not appear!
Emailed Matthew Harper, the Transport Secretary to suggest that there must be a better way to deal with trapped traffic than this.
When we eventually got moving, all that was to be seen was a tiny bit of debris on the side of the road. I guess this was the location of the accident, there was nothing anywhere else. This was about a minutes driving time from where were stopped.
Surely there should be a better trapped traffic plan.
mel

 

[RogerL]

It's National Highway's responsibility (in England) to dealt with traffic - from your description maybe no-one told them of the accident, although on a two-lane dual carriageway with central barriers (my assumption) it's not easy to get vehicles turned round as it's too narrow for artics to do so.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would agree, but I do understand the need to deal with any injured people, make safe any possible fuel or other hazards, the preservation and collection of evidence and of course the necessary removal of any obstructions, all of which takes time. In some cases the roadway or road furniture may have been damaged, and that might need to repaired before normal traffic can be allowed through.

But I'm sure there must be some modern technology that could be employed, such as Hi res 3D scanning to create an accurate virtual model of the scene which could then be interrogated back at the station to establish the measurements which often take hours to be performed by Bobbies with tape measures which keeps the road closed for longer.

Regardless of who is responsible for getting the traffic moving again, one would hope that for at least the major A roads, they would have contingency planning to enable diversions to be quickly set up to keep traffic away from the affected section of road, and to also have plans in place to help remove traffic from any closed section of road.

 

[otherclive]

I thought that hi resolution scanning was being introduced as its resolution is way above that of the human eye and it is fast.

 

[RogerL]

I thought that hi resolution scanning was being introduced as its resolution is way above that of the human eye and it is fast.

I believe every force has that equipment for their accident investigation team - but they need time to travel, either from their central location or where they're presently involved in a previous investigation.

 

[Beardy]

It's National Highway's responsibility (in England) to dealt with traffic - from your description maybe no-one told them of the accident, although on a two-lane dual carriageway with central barriers (my assumption) it's not easy to get vehicles turned round as it's too narrow for artics to do so.

Many years ago I was caught in a tailback due to an accident on the M4 (really bad one with multiple fatalities, an artic carrying tyres on fire and the M4 closed in both directions). I was about half a mile away from the accident. After 7 hours we started moving. A couple of hundred yards before the accident location they had removed a section of the central crash barriers so they could turn us round and send us in the opposite direction. I believe that most motorways have this provision every so often, you can tell because the central reservation is tarmacked or concreted rather than being grassed, not sure about dual carriageways.

 

[otherclive]

Many years ago I was caught in a tailback due to an accident on the M4 (really bad one with multiple fatalities, an artic carrying tyres on fire and the M4 closed in both directions). I was about half a mile away from the accident. After 7 hours we started moving. A couple of hundred yards before the accident location they had removed a section of the central crash barriers so they could turn us round and send us in the opposite direction. I believe that most motorways have this provision every so often, you can tell because the central reservation is tarmacked or concreted rather than being grassed, not sure about dual carriageways.

They did remove M5 central barrier near to Strensham to allow traffic to head north when the motorway was closed because of floods. But there were no takers as Worcestershire was under water and alternative routes were not identified. So we all waited another 3-4 hours till the southbound reopened. A nice unplanned night stop over, with great community spirit.

 

[Jcloughie]

I would agree, but I do understand the need to deal with any injured people, make safe any possible fuel or other hazards, the preservation and collection of evidence and of course the necessary removal of any obstructions, all of which takes time. In some cases the roadway or road furniture may have been damaged, and that might need to repaired before normal traffic can be allowed through.

But I'm sure there must be some modern technology that could be employed, such as Hi res 3D scanning to create an accurate virtual model of the scene which could then be interrogated back at the station to establish the measurements which often take hours to be performed by Bobbies with tape measures which keeps the road closed for longer.

Regardless of who is responsible for getting the traffic moving again, one would hope that for at least the major A roads, they would have contingency planning to enable diversions to be quickly set up to keep traffic away from the affected section of road, and to also have plans in place to help remove traffic from any closed section of road.

I am with you on this. But some years ago we had a suicide on the M5. The motorway was shut and traffic was diverted through Gloucester. Gloucester came to a standstill. Completely gridlocked.

On a forum, I said, like you, that new technology could be better used to speed up completion. I completely agreed that investigations had to be thorough. Simply argued that new tech needed to be properly incorporated.

A police sergeant friend of mine, who ran investigation teams, (admittedly a long time ago) agreed with me, even saying that they would erect theodolites at the scene more for show as nobody knew how to use one.

I felt the wrath of that forum. People saying that a thorough investigation was important for the family. I did not disagree, but in this case, it was reported that ambulances and fire engines could not get to their calls.

John

 

[Hutch]

I. Wish that traffic in the UK could be more like the Europeans, especially Germany and make an Emergency lane,when traffic comes to a slow or standstill.

 

[RogerL]

I. Wish that traffic in the UK could be more like the Europeans, especially Germany and make an Emergency lane,when traffic comes to a slow or standstill.

We do sometimes - but it would be a good idea to formalise it and include it in the Highway Code.

 

[Buckman]

I. Wish that traffic in the UK could be more like the Europeans, especially Germany and make an Emergency lane,when traffic comes to a slow or standstill.

Here in the UK I don't think the Smart motorways have an emergency lane. I think I read on this forum that in places like Germany the cars move to one side to allow a gap for police, ambulance etc to pass through?

 

[otherclive]

There are different types of Smart motorway here and with the use of overhead gantry signs the nearside lane can have a red cross to show it is closed to traffic and prior to the Red Cross tge lane 1 can have an arrow instructing traffic to move over to lane 2. How well it works with the British motorist is open to conjecture.

 

[RogerL]

Here in the UK I don't think the Smart motorways have an emergency lane. I think I read on this forum that in places like Germany the cars move to one side to allow a gap for police, ambulance etc to pass through?

Our standard motorway lane width is 3.65m wide so would be easy to form an extra central lane from 2 lanes if everyone moves to the edge of their lane - but there's no convention here to do that.

Almost all motorways in the UK originally had a hard shoulder which allowed emergency vehicles to use them to get past trapped traffic - on smart motorways with all lanes running, the central control should close a lane with a red "X" for the benefit of emergency vehicles but too many numpties ignore the red "X".

 

[Mel]

With regard to access for emergency vehicles, I have to say that at the first sound of sirens everyone that we could see squeezed to the left and right of their respective 2 lanes and quickly cleared a wide enough track for a full size fire engine to pass. We all then stayed there until we all moved again.
Obviously we were far enough back to not be able to see what wreckage lay ahead, but as no tow trucks came down that cleared middle track I do wonder why ( after the casualties had been safely dealt with) one lane could not have been opened to free the traffic. As I said, when we got to the scene there was absolutely nothing to be seen.
Mel

 

[Beardy]

---

I. Wish that traffic in the UK could be more like the Europeans, especially Germany and make an Emergency lane,when traffic comes to a slow or standstill.

What's the convention in Europe? On a dual carriageway I assume that the left hand lane moves to the left, and the right hand lane to the right to, but on a motorway what does the middle lane do? What if there are more than 3 lanes?

 

[Hutch]

---

What's the convention in Europe? On a dual carriageway I assume that the left hand lane moves to the left, and the right hand lane to the right to, but on a motorway what does the middle lane do? What if there are more than 3 lanes?

From what I remember the traffic moves to the extreme left, near to the central reservation and the middle lane goes to the right.

 

[Robert_374373903]

I often have to go down the M 25 south so from Dartford bridge to Junction 10( A3) And on that stretch you will get umpteen holdups for what ever because rarely do you see what might be the reason for it so I just live with it as being normal.