Hello hope someone can offer advice on the subject. We have an Luna Quaser 2008 model brought the van last year. Got the van out of storage for our first holiday in May no problem with the gas, In June the next trip, we had to call out for a repair to the regulator I was told these regulators there has been a lot of problems with this model (Type EN 61-DS 30 mbar ) managed to sort out the problem, July next trip all OK, next trip in August we had to call a repair guy out again, also he mentioned this regulator causing major problems has anyone else had these problems with Truma gas regulators ?. Did ring Truma up in Derby when we got back they said send us the part to check, but as the van is on a seasonal site the part is still inside the van. I also contacted our local caravan and camping store and they also told me the same story about these regulators. Regards David
Truma gas regulators
- Thread starter David_374469012
- Start date
I have a Lunar lexon 640 2007 model with the same regulator , had over 240 nights away in it since we bought it in june 2007 and its been used in temperatures down to minus 10 , its used on propane all the time , but we have had no trouble at all pehaps we have just been lucky so far hope you get sorted , just wondering wether they fixed it properly the first time , allthough there has been a lot trouble reported with the new regulators not just truma
Damian
Moderator
The issues with the GOK Regulators goes back to 2004 or thereabouts, it is not a new problem.
The problem is not with the regulator as such, it is with the quality of the gas, or the amount of impurities in the gas.
LPG is an oil by product, and it contains oily residue which is what is causing the blocking of the two stage GOK regulator.
The problem was alleviated by fitting the regulator as high as possible in th egas locker, with a 90 degree elbow on the top to ensure a hose run which was downwards to the cylinder at all times.
There have been several other suggestions to relieve th esituation, such as fitting stainless steel pigtails, but that still does not stop the problem.
Truma spent in excess of £300,000 investigating the issues and as their regulator is not at fault, they will not replace free of charge if contamination is the cause of the failure.
One way of moving the problem is to fit a Clesse single stage regulator instead, it is still bulkhead mounted but they do not suffer the same symptoms(so far), however, all that means is the oily residue is being allowed past the regulator into the main pipework, which will block eventually and require not only draining, but also repair to any appliances damaged by it.
So, in effect, whilst it is not convenient, it is saving the rest of the system from damage.
The problem is not with the regulator as such, it is with the quality of the gas, or the amount of impurities in the gas.
LPG is an oil by product, and it contains oily residue which is what is causing the blocking of the two stage GOK regulator.
The problem was alleviated by fitting the regulator as high as possible in th egas locker, with a 90 degree elbow on the top to ensure a hose run which was downwards to the cylinder at all times.
There have been several other suggestions to relieve th esituation, such as fitting stainless steel pigtails, but that still does not stop the problem.
Truma spent in excess of £300,000 investigating the issues and as their regulator is not at fault, they will not replace free of charge if contamination is the cause of the failure.
One way of moving the problem is to fit a Clesse single stage regulator instead, it is still bulkhead mounted but they do not suffer the same symptoms(so far), however, all that means is the oily residue is being allowed past the regulator into the main pipework, which will block eventually and require not only draining, but also repair to any appliances damaged by it.
So, in effect, whilst it is not convenient, it is saving the rest of the system from damage.
Are you using the 13Kg gas cylinder?
If so it is quite probable that the regulator is below the high level of the cylinder, and as such, you are more likely to incurr the oily deposits as described by Damian.
Gaslow sell a 30mb regulator that bolts onto the top of the cylinder - whether it is 6kg or 13kg and apparently the risk of oily contamination is very low.
We replaced our Truma regulator with the same type (not knowing at the time about the Gaslow regulator,) but with a stainless steel pigtail. The mounting is now as high as the pigtail would allow me to fit without moving the other original pipework, but it is higher than the top of the 13kg cylinder!
Barry
If so it is quite probable that the regulator is below the high level of the cylinder, and as such, you are more likely to incurr the oily deposits as described by Damian.
Gaslow sell a 30mb regulator that bolts onto the top of the cylinder - whether it is 6kg or 13kg and apparently the risk of oily contamination is very low.
We replaced our Truma regulator with the same type (not knowing at the time about the Gaslow regulator,) but with a stainless steel pigtail. The mounting is now as high as the pigtail would allow me to fit without moving the other original pipework, but it is higher than the top of the 13kg cylinder!
Barry
With regard to using bigger, taller bottles, I would say the opposite is true?, I think the problem lies in the small size of the 6kg bottle and this allows for it to be shaken about more.
Simply and whatever is in the bottle, it's heavier than the gas and so wants to lie harmlessly in the bottom, from that point of view, the bigger and heavier the bottle the less likely it's going to move from the bottom.
In the case of the 6kg and because of it's light weight and reduced distance from bottom to top, and is often 'roughly' treated in transport? this then can easily lead to transfer of the 'oil' to the top of the bottle where it will literally 'stick' around for a while. If then the bottle is soon connected and turned on, then gas pressure will push any out that is stuck under the valve outlet.
To that end, first treat the bottle gently and always transport standing up, second, leave for a while to settle and most importantly, crack the valve open a couple of times before connection and allow a brief blast of gas to blow out anything stuck inside around the valve.
Finally and when connected, turn on as slowly as possible.
If you are unluck enough to have a regulator block, dont connect a new reg to the old bottle or the new one may well fail!
Simply and whatever is in the bottle, it's heavier than the gas and so wants to lie harmlessly in the bottom, from that point of view, the bigger and heavier the bottle the less likely it's going to move from the bottom.
In the case of the 6kg and because of it's light weight and reduced distance from bottom to top, and is often 'roughly' treated in transport? this then can easily lead to transfer of the 'oil' to the top of the bottle where it will literally 'stick' around for a while. If then the bottle is soon connected and turned on, then gas pressure will push any out that is stuck under the valve outlet.
To that end, first treat the bottle gently and always transport standing up, second, leave for a while to settle and most importantly, crack the valve open a couple of times before connection and allow a brief blast of gas to blow out anything stuck inside around the valve.
Finally and when connected, turn on as slowly as possible.
If you are unluck enough to have a regulator block, dont connect a new reg to the old bottle or the new one may well fail!
another suggestion we have to alleviate the problem is when you are not using the gas turn off the gas at the bottle and then light one of the burners on the hob until it goes out. this way it will stop gas being held at pressure in the pigtail and helps the problem.
I have a 3 year old Sprite Alpine and all has been working well with my gas system until recently.I have always used 6kg Propane with no problems. Last time we were out a humming / buzzing started when we were using the cooker. I traced this to the Truma gas regulator and wondered if possibly the gas may be getting low so I changed over the bottle to a new Calor Lite 6 kg. The noise disappeared great. A few days later when using the cooker the noise started again so I changed back to the original bottle the noise stopped. Again a few days later it started again, swopped to the Calor Lite noise stopped. The original pigtail was replaced when it was last serviced as the original would soon have been 5 years old. The gas is always turned off and disconnected when not in use.
Do you think I need a new regulator, can they be cleaned? any suggestions would be useful as I am due to have a service shortly would would get the engineer to carry out any alterations.
Thanks
Hugh
Do you think I need a new regulator, can they be cleaned? any suggestions would be useful as I am due to have a service shortly would would get the engineer to carry out any alterations.
Thanks
Hugh
Damian
Moderator
The GOK regulator cannot be cleaned in any way, and no attempt to do so should be made.
If the regulator is working and delivering the correct pressure of gas to the appliances, there is no need to change it as such.
If the regulator is working and delivering the correct pressure of gas to the appliances, there is no need to change it as such.
i had one of these regulators fail after only 5 weekends use. my dealer replaced it free of charge but it was still inconvenient. truma can blame the gas, or the hose, or even the weather in outer mongolia if they like. its as simple as they have produced a device which doesn't work with the very substance its meant for.
Damien, yes the regulator appears to work OK but why does it hum / buzz, that is why I am considering a change. Does the Gaslow regulators work any better.
Hugh
Hugh
Damian
Moderator
Hugh, I have no idea why some mae a noise and others do not.
I can only surmise that it has something to do with the gas causing a resonance,something which everything has at a particular point.
If you intend changing it anyway to get rid of the noise, I would suggest a Clesse as a replacement.
It is what I have been substituting the GOK with for about 4 years now and none have failed (yet)but see my earlier post regarding not fixing the problem, but changing what is happening.
The only sure fire fix is cleaner gas, which I cannot see happening in any time soon
I can only surmise that it has something to do with the gas causing a resonance,something which everything has at a particular point.
If you intend changing it anyway to get rid of the noise, I would suggest a Clesse as a replacement.
It is what I have been substituting the GOK with for about 4 years now and none have failed (yet)but see my earlier post regarding not fixing the problem, but changing what is happening.
The only sure fire fix is cleaner gas, which I cannot see happening in any time soon
Hello mcghee,
Your last sentence is far from the truth. LPG is supposed to produce a clean vapour, which if that is all the regulator sees then every thing is fine. But if other residues are forming and running into the regulator then it causes problems. the residues should not be there!
Over the last 30 years I have seen several caravan gas appliances that have been blocked up by residues in the gas pipes, so its not a new thing.
Where a Truma regulator has been replaced and mounted above the level of the bottle and pipes no problems have ensued.
Your last sentence is far from the truth. LPG is supposed to produce a clean vapour, which if that is all the regulator sees then every thing is fine. But if other residues are forming and running into the regulator then it causes problems. the residues should not be there!
Over the last 30 years I have seen several caravan gas appliances that have been blocked up by residues in the gas pipes, so its not a new thing.
Where a Truma regulator has been replaced and mounted above the level of the bottle and pipes no problems have ensued.
mcghee said:
First Truma don't make regulators, they supply 'GOK' two stage regulators which are perfectly good and work perfectly with the substance their meant for, ie, 99.9% LPG
The problem of GOK regulator failure only goes back to 2004, the problem of dirty gas goes back decades further, only up until 2004 it was appliance failure due to the earlier fitted regulators allowing the 'oil' through and into the pipework. This type single stage regulator is available from Cleese via www.bes.co.uk or as a gaslow regulator, albeit theres probably no difference bar perhaps the price!
As far as the hose is concerned, this I found laughable, simply if the amount of oil involved came from the hose, then what was left of the hose would resemble a prune!! In fact the report itself stated the quantities are simple not present in half a metre of hose?
I have said all this since the beginning of this problem, the original 'report' on the reasons and solutions made me decide to say nothing more until it was disproved by the problem persisting, something I considered only a matter of time and so it has proved.
Truma for their part spent a fortune replacing regulators FOC until they satisfied themselves it was nothing to do with them, that's not to say they have not continued to invest heavily in trying to find a complete solution in the shape of a 'filter', but to date have not managed a 100% fix, despite several false dawns!
PS John, your last sentence is also incorrect, the problem persists regardless of where the regs mounted! Abroad, the same GOK reg is mounted on the bottle virtually without problem, (a few have been known to block though), so from that point of view, height has little to do with it, albeit anything helps until the real solution is found.
My suggest work around is to use an overly long hose and shape it into a deep horse shoe loop, ideally near touching the gas locker floor before returning up to the regulator, this I believe will provide a trap low enough down to prevent gas pressure pushing the oil into the regulator
my regulator is fitted above the top of the bottles, and the gas is turned off with the hose disconnected when the 'van is not in service. my regulator failed after 5 weekends use. it didn't clog up, it failed allowing gas at bottle pressure to pass straight through the regulator.
i am aware that lpg is supposed to be clean, but it isn't.its been said that these problems with dirty gas have been around for 30 or so years so why has that been completely ignored during the design process for these regulators?
its a bit like building a swimming pool which leaks, then blaming the leak on chlorine in the water. you know the chlorine is there to start with, so that surely must be a consideration?
that aside, i don't believe that impurities in the gas can cause failure that quickly. the gas bottles in my 'van were transfered from my last 'van which never suffered regulator failure. and i believe the injectors in the gas appliances would block before the regulator would being as they're as small as 0.4mm.
i am aware that lpg is supposed to be clean, but it isn't.its been said that these problems with dirty gas have been around for 30 or so years so why has that been completely ignored during the design process for these regulators?
its a bit like building a swimming pool which leaks, then blaming the leak on chlorine in the water. you know the chlorine is there to start with, so that surely must be a consideration?
that aside, i don't believe that impurities in the gas can cause failure that quickly. the gas bottles in my 'van were transfered from my last 'van which never suffered regulator failure. and i believe the injectors in the gas appliances would block before the regulator would being as they're as small as 0.4mm.
mcghee said:
To be honest, I think my first reply answered or at least suggested a possible reason for what you have queried in your reply, particularly that is, it's a UK problem and not a problem on the Continent, being that's where it's designed, then it's reasonable for them not to design a fix for a problem that does not actually exist?!
However perhaps if I explain something of how the GOK reg works it will make clear why the reg can block almost straight away, never mind after a few weeks use.
And that is, the GOK is two stage reg, one half reduces bottle pressure to 150mb, the second down to 30mb, between the stages is a rubber diaphragm and this is where the problem lies.
Simple the oil swells the rubber and that prevents it working and the regulator ceases to allow gas through.
The other point you make is blocking tiny jets, well if you fit a Cleese reg and the oil gets through in to the pipework and beyond, then it most certainly will block jets, has it has been doing for years.
A point to make here is, if your main gas feed pipe goes to a vertical Manifold and appliances connected from there at relatively high level, then it's probable you will never have a problem, however ,if appliances are individually 'tee'ed' off the main feed pipe at low level, then it's highly probably you will
For this reason and also being low down, the old Cascade2 water heater was/still is favourite to suffer jet blockage, and I've seen literally hundreds, apart from seeing wet oil, if it was dry to look at, the swelling of the rubber 'o' ring gas seal is a dead give away. Today it's the turn of the Truma water heater, these are blocked and for the same reason, the fix I might add is far more money than replacing a reg!
As I see it, the problem is one of gas supply, perhaps then it's these people the anger should be directed at? as it is, it's being aimed at the poor old messenger, so to speak
We purchased our first caravan a 2005 Lunar Lexon FB in April 2010, and on our first trip away the regulator failed having previously seen all the appliances running in the van at the dealership with no problems on 24 hours prior. This failed during the worst weekend (weather wise) in Lyme Regis for years, which totally deflated our excitement about our new purchase. The dealer (in the Midlands) refunded the cost of replacement (£49), and have used it through the summer with no problems, until last weekend (29th Oct) in London, when having pulled up on site, turned on the gas, nothing, regulator failed again. This time the dealer is not willing to replace/refund and Truma not interested, neither is the shop who supplied the replacement stating 'this is a common problem'. I have now ordered a Clesse 100 compact, as I have been informed they do not suffer the same problems (plus its auto changeover), regardless of where it is mounted. To be honest I was not aware of this type of issue until suffering it myself twice in 6 months. Really disapointed in Truma.
We have jayco heritage caravan and have had 4 maybe 5 regulators one on yesterday since 2006 gas bottles 9 kg ..we were told at the time too much oil goes or gets in the bottles and common cause in western Australia ..
Damian
Moderator
Perhaps it is a very slow internet connection between here and Australia............................
John, the clue to the type of regulator is in the topic......Truma
John, the clue to the type of regulator is in the topic......Truma
Hello Damain,
One of the companies I worked for did sell LPG products to Aus. and there was always an issue with ensuring gas pressures were properly matched. At no time do I recall a Truma regulator being mentioned as being installed as standard. so I was looking for clarification. Fonzie may have just been pointing out the oiling/waxing problem is known outside the UK.
One of the companies I worked for did sell LPG products to Aus. and there was always an issue with ensuring gas pressures were properly matched. At no time do I recall a Truma regulator being mentioned as being installed as standard. so I was looking for clarification. Fonzie may have just been pointing out the oiling/waxing problem is known outside the UK.
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