Truma ultraheat not working on gas

[JeffinSpain]

Well!! it would seem I've kicked up quite a storm, and It's a pity that the people who have come out of the woodwork to condemn me weren't there to help and offer advice, as I said in one of my replys that the van is in southern Spain and if I can't fix it, it won't get fixed, now, I do take onboard the fact that I don't have a certificate of competence, I'm no plank, it must be very self satisfying to sit in the comfort of your home spouting chapter and verse of what people should or shouldn't do, however, unfortunately I don't have that luxury, I also believe that this is why a lot of people come on to this forum to seek proper help and avice, should I now have to qualify as a motor mechanic so that I can change a flat tyre, after all, if not fitted correctly could result in loss of life, now that I know, I will check that the gas valve holds after 5 or 10 seconds, and had I just put the old gasket back and thought that would do I could understand your condemnation, and to judge me on my capabilities without knowing me or meeting me in person, is, to say the least condescending and somewhat of an insult.

To those of you who offered genuine help advice, I thank you, to the rest I would say, get a life, however, lastly I will say to "everyone", may you all have a great 2010.

Jeff.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Jeff for your comments.

Actually I have a life, its just different to yours but no less valid.- My experiences are different to yours and have alerted me to the very significant dangers that can arise when uninformed (and therefore incompetent) tampering with gas appliances can have.

The regulations I have referred to are the UK regulations,and would not apply in Spain, where I am sure they will have their own - you would need to confirm them with the Spanish authorities.

As you did not indicate the location of your caravan in the opening post, how are we to know where it is or what level of gas fitting skill you may have.?

As for the difficulty you are having, and even though you have not followed the UK approved methods, it seems most likely you have had a blocked burner assembly, which was not passing the correctly mixed gas to the burner plate. Typical causes are spiders crawling into the assembly and casting a web , or hibernating/nesting or dying. or dust/sand drawn/blown in.

For your information Truma have a Europe wide network of dealers who should be able to provide service and spares - look up Truma's website for more information.

May your life be interesting too.

 

[Dustydog]

For 40 years I dealt with mangled human beings, some dead and some alive but better off dead thanks to a lack of proper Safety implementation.

To slate Health and Safety is crass stupidity and leaves me speechless that thanks to ignorance such important issues are still being criticised.

Get a life? I do hope so!!

My son is a fully qualified "Gas Safe" engineer. He's read this thread and picked up on a crucial omission.

Whenever any gas appliance or pipe is tampered with, eg Jeff undoing his gas pipe tee piece the full 5 minute pressure drop test must be carried out using the correct and calibrated instrument / guage; manometer.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[JeffinSpain]

Thank you all for your comments, I will of course take them onboard, Please tell your son not to worry DD, as I carried out a pressured carcass test with a U/gauge as a matter of routine, with no drop.

Best Wishes to one and all.

Jeff.

 

[Heethers]

Jeff has an ex engineer that retired 18months ago from Britain's second biggest drug giant, l worked in compliance and when l challenged some of the HSE personnel on what denotes a competent person, their answer was some one that has been trained in engineering disciplines.

I for one think you did a good job but it would be wise after you get back just to have it checked over by caravan service guy that is registered, that way if you sell the van on you will have piece of mind.

NigelH

 

[JeffinSpain]

Thanks Nigel, and yes, there is a service centre within easy reach of where I live (Spain), but having seen first hand the slapdash way they work on vans here, believe me that the van is far better off in my hands, also, when things go wrong here all you get is a shrug of the shoulders, it's similar to a French shrug but with less flair, I think I am aware of my limitations and perhaps living in Spain for so long has made me too independant, lots of expats get on the boat with perhaps one trade, and when they get off they seen to have several more, in other words, if want anything doing, best do it yourself.

Regards,

Jeff.

 

[forestgump]

the big pproblem here is the meaning off competentin my trade i have so many types of traiming standards and regulations.i have to retest and sit test regulary on some method statements and risk assesstments it states a competent person must be present'what is a competent person.the answer was given some one who can carry out the task safely.this is verey open and off a dodgey area.

 

[xtrailman]

Jeff

I think you replied to the arm chair critics, preachers, in a very balanced way.

I wasn't surprised however at the out bursts.

Rather than help, some eagerly jump at the chance to condemn and assume.

I was deemed as a competent person, where i worked for 25 years, as a electrician, process control engineer, and my final title, technician.

I was trained to maintain natural gas, oxygen, nitrogen, pure argon, crude argon, compressed air, high pressure hot water, compressed air, hydraulics,installations and equipment.

Also all electrical equipment, maintenance and installation, up to 11kv.

And funnily enough we used compressed air to regularly blow out gas appliances, so when jeff mentioned blowing the burner out i was not surprised, hence my comment "one for the memory bank".

In my final years, i along with the other shift technicians, were given the task of making out permits to work, for the contactors on site, ensuring the method statement was correct, and the required isolations carried out.

I rather resent comments made about my competence, even the most experienced engineer, is always learning, retraining, and will at some stage, expect to ask questions about something that needs clarification.

So for the new year can forum members try not to look down their noses, at people who ask for advise, pointers, help, ect.

And HELP instead.

If we must have rules and regulations constantly posted, why not have all the heath and safety rules, posted under a NEW forum, then those who feel they need to know, can read them there.

 

[forestgump]

yes ray there always seems to be people who love other peoples missfortune all be it speeling or lack off knowledge on a subject .

 

[ProfJohnL]

The issue of competence is tricky, unless you have availed yourself of the appropriate training, had it verified and validated by the recognised trade body against standards, you have no proof of competency in that area.

Taking umbridge at having your competence questioned is rather silly. Would you allow a complete stranger to service your car or gas appliance? No; you would rely on your instincts to gather clues, such as a long established trade premises, or actually seeing certificates, or personal recommendations. If I engage a trades person to undertake detailed or regulated work I ask to see the proof of competency.

On a forum like this very few people know you personally and therefore cannot possibly know what skills, experience and qualifications you have. In the absence of any proof of such it is far wiser and safer to question or assume the worst case.

There are also differences with working with LPG compared to Natural gas; which is why Gas Safe (and Corgi before it) have different accreditations for different types of Gas. The general engineering aspects of how to complete a compression coupling and other common procedures may apply equally to different gas systems but unless you have studied the requirements of LPG, there are several perfectly good practices for natural gas that are different for LPG and vice-vesa. It is these differences that can be crucial to the safety of a system, and unless you are aware of them you may make a mistake with serious consequences.

You must not also forget that this is public forum, and if specific advice is given that would be appropriate to a seasoned professional, it is highly likely that others without the necessary technical background will also read it an may assume it is safe for them to perform the same procedures. The professional would know there are protocols to follow for safe working, but the amateur would not know about them or necessarily have access to the required equipment. On that basis it is responsible to remind the questioner of the regulations.

If you tell a rank amateur to service a gas appliance then that is irresponsible, because the amateur would not have the necessary knowledge of the critical aspects of gas safety, and may thus endanger them selves and others. It would also be illegal for them to do it. It may also be deemed reckless to advise such actions.

Specifically in this thread, initially Jeff neither provided the location of the caravan or the fact that he has had some experience of working with gas. Without that knowledge how are forum contributors to know what skills or approvals the questioner has?

It may be fashionable to disregard health and safety because it is only your own caravan, but it certainly is not wise to ignore it.

 

[JeffinSpain]

Thank you JohnL, you make a good case and your points are well taken, I have ordered the new site glass which will be fitted in due course.

Perhaps I could produce some anti-theft stickers for forum members, it could say,:- BEWARE!!! THIS CARAVAN HAS BEEN SERVICED BY "JEFF" STEAL IT AT YOUR PERIL.

LOL!!!!

Happy New Year to one and "ALL"

Jeff

 

[xtrailman]

Good point jeff, perhaps all who post should have to declare their caravan VIN number.

This would enable JL to create a data base, under the heading "beware this caravan has be repaired by jeff" etc.

On the list i posted, i forgot to mention, propane, and oil.

JL may doubt my ability, but the engineers at the multi million melting shop i worked for didn't.

 

[Parksy]

John L isn't doubting the capabilities of anyone in particular and I'm certain that his remarks are not intended to be taken personally.

On a forum such as this where technical advice is sought and offered anyone offering valid technical advice has to assume that the person reading the advice is not competent.

I 'know' quite a bit about caravans and I'm a reasonable DIYer but I don't have the technical qualifications, expertise or tools that would allow me to repair a gas appliance. If I asked a question which involved dismantling any part of the system those answering who have the technical know how and competency would be very irresponsible if they didn't warn me about the possible consequences of trying a DIY fix.

If I was a qualified lpg service engineer I doubt if I'd need to ask in the first place and as a 'layman' I wouldn't offer advice which might possibly endanger others

 

[dougie_374468830]

I have worked in almost the identical industrial settings as Ray and issued permits,written risk assessments etc.

I do get worried about the way people spout about the importance of say, the 17th edition as the end all and be all

The 17th exam is an open book exam where most if it is just finding the answer in the book. A very contradictory book at that.

Do i need it? No. it is not law.

I used to work for NationalGrid gas. working on high pressure (85bar) gas mains. Do I need to be gas safe? NO

I worked in a foundry on lpg and nat gas equipment on the floor and offices. gas safe required? NO, Reason, trained in-house

Private touring caravans do not come under the gas regs.hence no gas-safe required.

Where in the gas regs does it say i cant blow a blockage with air?

Average Joe punter can do what he likes with his caravan because any regs are unenforcable as there is no compulsory testing in this country, so until he goes boom whos to know what he has done.

A few months ago i was slated for daring to suggest that all tourers will shortly have to have a certificate on conformation on its electrical systems done annually and how can the two day training course make me a competent person to carry out the test.

I have the ticket so who can say im not competent?

I also have acops, dual C&G,BOC lpg intall,first aid,forklift inspection and a few others.

The only closed book exam out of that lot was the dual C&G theory.

I as an ACOP`s guy would have no problem with Jeff clearing the lint from his burner in the manner he described.He has carried out a pressure test using the same gear i would and probably has more gas experience than a lot of us.

The perfect world would be a great place but some folk still have to find the real world.

 

[gary]

I'll tell you why I've got a problem with it, because how do you know what else has been disturbed/ knocked/ broken by whatever used to get the air down their?

How do you know where it's gone, is it now waiting to do more harm is it infact not just working but working safely? we don't know but I do know you can't see squat through that sight hole, your pushed to see the spark!

I could go on, but, if you don't know the job don't comment, this is not a burner in a 100kw plus industrial boiler, it's tiny, and tiny problems to a big boiler are big problems to a tiny one.

Spraying around un-sighted in hope with an air line is no way of fixing them, sheer luck in this case. Has it got it working but other things are still not right?

Which brings me to Jeff, yes it did work and given your circumstance I can understand as long as it's safe, but as I originally said to Ray, I'm not sure it's a good idea to remember it or bandy it about for who knows who to then try in the hope of saving themselves a bob or two!

Don't forget you and yours might be pitched next to one if/when it goes up!

 

[JeffinSpain]

Gary, Do you really think that this is what it's all about, me saving a bob or two, I thought that I had made it clear that the only reason I was doing the work was because of the lack of good qualified fitters here in Spain, I only do it out of necessity.

Can we now put this one to bed please, I would hate this to drag on, people have their own ideas on what is right and wrong, but at the end of the day we are all caravanners with one goal, thats to help each other and long may it be so.

Let's start 2010 as we mean to go on, doing what we're best at :- taking up at least two spaces in motorway rest stops and holding up non-caravanners on A-roads.

Have a great 2010,

Jeff.

 

[Richard_374537344]

Thanks John & Dusty Dog

I would say that I'm fairly competent having been on the gas conversion from coal to natural gas the then staying on for some years as a fitter, but as I'm not to familiar with caravan fires so I felt it best to ask, also, the van is here with me in southern Spain so no service stations.

As I said in my question the gas is from a tee in the gas line with no isolation switch and I can't get the pilot to light let alone the burner, the only bank of isolation switches are under the cooker, there are three, water heater, fridge and cooker.

Thanks for your help and advice.

Jeff.

Just saw a problem with a gas heater not passing gas and thought I might be able to help

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Jeff for your good wishes for 2010, I wish the same for everyone. - Including Ray!

 

[xtrailman]

John l

Thank you, and all the best to you and yours.

 

[stevendi]

Hi, Jeffin spain you will probably never see this as it's a few years too late but I have exactly the same problem with my gas heater and thought your fix was both innovative and practical. The reason I write is because as I went through the thread I became more and more bewildered at the pedantic adherence to UK regulations that for the most part do not exist anywhere else in the world. I left the UK over twenty years ago and after living in various countries I settled in New Zealand where the answer to any problem is to hit it with a hammer and if that doesn't work hit it again, failing that get out a piece of number 8 wire because that will fix anything. Now I am not for a moment suggesting that any of these fixes are serious but if you had seen some of the fixes I have witnessed throughout the world for anything from bridges to ships you would very probably faint. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury here of picking up the phone and calling my nearest service center as there isn't one, which means I shall as always fix it myself and I will be trying your airline approach. Thank you for your good sensible and practical advice. Steve Broomfield

 

[andy189]

hiya I have the very same problem I bought a avondale dart 510 and it works fine off electric but not gas and I now why cos when I took the front cover off the heater the thermo coupler thingy was just hanging in mid air not attached to nothing so I need someone to look at it someone private ie not main dealers and their prices does anyone out there know anyone who can help?

 

[Dustydog]

http://www.approvedworkshops.co.uk/approved-touring-caravan-motorhome-servicing
Try one of the mobile guys in your area.

 

[andy189]

Thought I would update this topic a very nice fitter from Northam farm brean sands fixed it for us in less than ten mins the thermocouple had jumped out of its holder thus no spark to ignite gas hey presto first click it lit up and has worked ever since.

 

[Tenko 64]

My truma ultraheat is giving me problems, yesterday I changed the gas bottle from butane to propane and now the gas fire isn't working properly, it lights and stays lit on a low heat but when i put it to full heat the flame goes out then back on again with a big of a pop. All the rest of the equipment works fine just the fire giving me grief, could there be air in the pipe going to the fire its been on for a while now but still the flame goes out then back on.Any body got any idea?

 

[littlebasher]

My truma ultraheat is giving me problems, yesterday I changed the gas bottle from butane to propane and now the gas fire isn't working properly, it lights and stays lit on a low heat but when i put it to full heat the flame goes out then back on again with a big of a pop. All the rest of the equipment works fine just the fire giving me grief, could there be air in the pipe going to the fire its been on for a while now but still the flame goes out then back on.Any body got any idea?

If you've read this thread from start to finish, you should already know that you'll be directed to seek professional advice !

I'm handy with the tools, but those ultraheats are fiddly with brittle gaskets and the like, just waiting to catch out the unwary DIY'er.

Cheap electric heater will tide you over till you can get it sorted