Truma Ultrastore water heater 10 Ltr..

[WB369hut246tubilCANE125]

Hi ..Have the above water heater on my Bailey Pageant Monarch S7. Year 2009 .Works perfect on electric.70 deg..However when I try to heat water on GAS the gas lights for about 5 seconds then trips out .
When I turn the gas switch to on the unit clicks , then I hear slight whirring noise and the boiler lighting, as stated trips back out after a few secs.. N.B. All other gas appliances work, the outside cover,over heater vent is removed.The green light on the switch remains ON. I have even changed the gas bottle
Hope you can help ...Thanks Brian...

 

[Damian]

When did you have the van serviced last?

 

[Hutch]

Hi, check what your Battery voltage is, if its below 11volts the gas will not light. Try it on Electric hook up, and try "gas" again. Had this on my Coachman a couple of times, and found my main power supply had burnt out dropping the battery voltage, to below 12 volts and the gas would not ignite but the cooker would. .

 

[WB369hut246tubilCANE125]

Thankyou for the speedy reply.
Was in the process of being serviced that the Water heater fault was found ..
Thanks Brian

 

[WB369hut246tubilCANE125]

Good Morning EH52ARH... I have tested the Water Heater with the mains 240 volt connected.D.C Volts at present 13.7.. tried it over & over again. I even turned the supply off to W.Heater to allow it to reset.
The GAS does ignite, but only stays on for 5 to 10 seconds then trips

Thanks ...Brian

 

[Jimbo2107]

Might be a daft question, but have you taken the cover off outside the van. I forgot once the first time we had ultrstore and the symptoms were the same.

Sorry hadn't fully read 1st post,

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Brian,

as far as I can remember the heater is automatic, so not normally switched on, when you set it to on with gas the green light comes on, then there is a click [this is the pilot light being ignited] after 3 to 5 seconds [to warm up the thermocouple] you should hear a whoosh as the main burner lights, if for some reason the main burner doesn't light the light turns red and the system shuts down.
if the boiler doesn't turn red but just shuts off it suggests the pilot light is not igniting,
in any event this is a safety feature and suggests there is a fault, either in the air flow around the boiler, problems with the gas supply or a mechanical issue, check the tap has not been turned off at the manifold [near the battery] and DO NOT use it until the problem has been isolated,
if the van has been in for service and a fault found let them fix it as they will have the proper test equipment I do not understand why it would not have been fixed on the service though,
unless there isn't a fault and the starting procedure you are using is wrong.
there is not enough information in your posts to make random guesses though sorry.

 

[Gafferbill]

........you do not say if the water heater has recently been working when using the gas heater.
A possible cause for the symptoms you describe is that the gas supply to the water heater is turned off.
You should have a gas isolation valve / tap for each of your fitted gas appliances fitted somewhere in your caravan......check this is turned on for the water heater.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Good Morning EH52ARH... I have tested the Water Heater with the mains 240 volt connected.D.C Volts at present 13.7.. tried it over & over again. I even turned the supply off to W.Heater to allow it to reset.
The GAS does ignite, but only stays on for 5 to 10 seconds then trips

Thanks ...Brian

Hello Brian,

Based on the symptoms you describe, the appliance ignites the gas, but the system seems not to recognise the flame and so trips out.

I don't think Truma will have changed the fundamental mechanical design of the Trumastore heater since I last worked on one in about 2000. In which case it will have a circular burner and it won't have a pilot light.

There is no gas metering to reduce heat input .The system uses a full cycle controller that either has the ON or OFF, and it automatically ignites the flame when heat is needed.

The burner is 90% of a circle, and the ignition electrode will start the flame at one end, and the flame proving probe is at the other end, so the flame has to start at one end and make it all the way to the other end for it to be detected.

As the flame is not being detected I would first suspect the flame has not fully lit around the burner. This could be down to a blockage in the burners, a spider's web for example.
Secondly I would suspect the control boards flame proving or detection circuit.

Either way the heater has to be dismantled to check, and I would suggest you leave it to a workshop or engineer with Truma expertise.

 

[Hutch]

Prof and Colin, if the system is on gas should there not be a thermo couple in the system to enable/ disable the gas flow if the pilot light is not avalable.
Just a thought.
H.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof and Colin, if the system is on gas should there not be a thermo couple in the system to enable/ disable the gas flow if the pilot light is not avalable.
Just a thought.
H.

No.

I often had to work on these appliances, and as I explained in my earlier post the the system automatically turns the burner on and off. As the burner actually goes out a thermocouple would not work, as every time it needed to re heat it would require manual intervention to reset the the flame failure systems.

It uses an electrical/electronic form of flame recognition.

 

[Hutch]

Ok thanks Prof,
H.

 

[WB369hut246tubilCANE125]

Hi ProfJohnL ......Thankyou for your comprehensive reply.. It looks like a stip down job.Going away in 3 weeks so will use elect. only until I return. ..When I switch the Gas water heater on after the loud click I think I can here a fan running then the flame ignites . Could the fan be stopping ? ..Brian

 

[colin-yorkshire]

post deleted, the prof's answer says it all.

 

[Hutch]

Prof, whatever the system , there must be through electronic, or thermo , a valve operated shut off, for saftey. When there is a flame out. On speculation this should be the fault,

I am not trying to shout any one down, just getting my grey cells working.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi ProfJohnL ......Thankyou for your comprehensive reply.. It looks like a stip down job.Going away in 3 weeks so will use elect. only until I return. ..When I switch the Gas water heater on after the loud click I think I can here a fan running then the flame ignites . Could the fan be stopping ? ..Brian

Hello Brian.

You comment above throws into doubt the model of heater you are having trouble with.

Your title and comments refer to the Truma Ultrastore 10L, which is a storage water heater with both LPG and mains electrical heating options.

Unless the design has been changed quite dramatically from those I used to work on there is no fan associated with the heater, so your comment about the fan makes no sense. However I do wonder if what you think maybe a fan is in fact the spark generator, which will produce a series of ticks (and these can be quite rapid) whilst the appliance is trying to establish the presence of a flame. OF course if the appliance fails to detect a flame the ignition will cease when the control goes into lock out.

You will find a PDF copy of teh Ultrastores instruction manual here
https://www.truma.com/downloadcenter/ultrastore_rapid_installation_instruction.pdf

And
there is usefull video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ4kQ26wHKc
Please confirm we are discussing the same product.

Note for Hutch
The Ultrastore uses an electronically controlled solenoid gas valve to turn the gas on and off. The design of this is approved to be the master gas valve for the appliance. It does not require manually operated valve to be reset when a flame failure occurs, the control logic will have been approved to be sufficiently 'safe' to mange this function in accordance with the gas appliance manufacturers standards and regulations that are required to be met for an appliance to be given CE approval.

 

[WB369hut246tubilCANE125]

Thankyou once again ProfJohnL...I have looked at the PDF which I would describe as info. to Instal a complete Truma Ultra. Also checked the start up again, the whirring, may also be accompanied very quite continuous clicking noise, until the gas lights. It then remains lit for about 5+ seconds goes off with maybe a forced shut down ( Solenoid ? )
The name Plate written only in German.... Fabr-Nr US 103-19345090
I'd send you some photos but can't see how to do it ..
Regards ...Brian

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

I'd send you some photos but can't see how to do it ..

See sticky here

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

As I pointed out, it is some time since I had to actually deal with one of these, so sending pictures will not really help. I have to say that from the video it seems the basic concept and construction of the Trumastore/Ultrastore has no major differences, but there may be some electronic differences.

I am not confident of being able to provide a copper bottomed solution over the forum, so at this point as there are some aspects of your reports that don't seem to match what I know about the product, I have to advise that it is beyond DIY intervention and I have to recommend you do nothing yourself and arrange to have it checked over by a competent Truma product engineer.

 

[Damian]

A couple of points to note about the Ultrastore heater.
1. There is NO FAN in the unit whatsoever.
2. Upon starting the unit you should hear a "clunk" as the gas valve opens, followed by a faint ticking as the unit produces the spark to ignite the burner
3. If the burner does not light, or stay alight, you should hear a "clunk" as the gas valve shuts and the light on the control panel will change to RED, from Green.

The most usual cause of failure is a faulty PCB,which if your service engineer was any good, he would have tried with a stock new PCB, FIRST, before thinking of going to strip down as that is not as easy as it seems.