Two more van accident's today

[Gagakev]

Don't know the facts but well publicised on local radio

One van on the M5 junction 27 near Tiverton

The other A38 at South Brent.

Hope no one was injured but obviously two holidays ruined.

Would love to know the reason why it happened, has anyone actually heard of any reports being released by the authorities to give us an insight as to how previous accident's actually happen?

I suppose we could all guess but hard facts would surely help the rest of us. Any thought's?

Kev

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Also caravan accident on M4 J.36 (Bridgend) early Sunday evening. Caravan at right angles to road and L.R. Discovery on its roof. Vehicle roof was virtually flat - must have rolled a few times for the amount of damage to the car. Appeared very little damage to caravan. Don't know what happened but west bound side of motorway closed for some time.

 

[KeithJ]

I am always surprised at the number of caravan accidents involving big cars, such as Land Rovers. It would suggest that the main cause is not over loading, or incorrect loading as many of us think!

I don't want to start a guessing game - that has been done many times before, but as Kev said, some hard facts would be very useful

Keith

 

[Jim_374473646]

I wonder if there is a stability issue with some of the 4x4's.

A few years ago I had a Frontera, the handling on that was atrocious, going around roandabouts at relatively low speeds would feel like I was on two wheels. I only used it for towing on a few occasions because it just didn't feel stable.

On the other hand, I have an 07 X-Trail and it seems to cling to the ground, I can hardly notice the caravan on the back. This could lead to a false sense of security, I use the cruise control to keep my speed down as I find it easy to let the speed creep up.

Jim

 

[KeithJ]

Jim, You are absolutely right, and some 4x4 hand books go to great pains to explain that they do not handle like a saloon car, and warn that they should be driven with appropriate care.

Keith

 

[BillD.]

I see in latest issue of PC mag that they hope to publish some data collected in the past from caravan accidents. This is information I have looked for many times as it is a bit concerning to keep hearing of these accidents. I like to think I take great care in loading and driving but there is always that nagging feeling, is there something I don't know about lurking ready to catch me unawares. I suspect the data will confirm what we all believe, it is careless or incompetent preparation, car/van matching and/or driving but it will be interesting to see some factual information. Like many things (driving in general for instance) caravanning has 'progressed' from the enthusiast to Joe public that treat it as just a means to an end. I always tell people you really need to look upon caravanning (ie touring) as a hobby to get the most out of it, to treat all the procedures involved as enjoyable rather than a chore to get over with as quickly as possible (or even not at all)

Bill D.

 

[KeithJ]

I agree with you 100%, Bill

Keith

 

[ValA.]

Another caravan smash up on the A65 last weekend - Discovery on it's side, caravan straight up still, but smashed up front end. Yet another holiday ruined. This year we've seen two overturned vans at a very similar point on the M62 over the Pennines. Each time you wonder why it's happened.

It would be good to see some reports of the causes.

 

[KeithJ]

Why is it so often a Land Rover, when they are supposed to be capable of towing anything?

Keith

 

[Gafferbill]

..... there you have it!

Owners of Land Rovers think they can tow large heavy caravans with impunity, and the 85% rule says they can.

However the rear axle of any tow car has to maintain adhesion with the road surface in order to keep control of the weight of the caravan when any instability sets in.

The caravan hitch will try to push the rear of the tow car sideways and introduce uncontrollable rear steering.

This can be first one way and then the other..... a Snake!

Studies at Bath University found that it is important to have as much weight as possible on the rear axle of the tow car to maximise adhesion.

Likewise increased tyre pressure for towing is doubly important on this axle as it prevents tyre squirming.

 

[Lutz]

... and not only the tyres, but also compliance in the suspension can allow the towcar to squirm. Vehicles designed for offroad use need a relatively compliant suspension to be able to negotiate rough conditions, but on the other hand this characteristic is not beneficial to stability when towing.

 

[otherclive]

Sitting in my Sorento and rocking from side to side I can get the car noticeably moving in sympathy, yet I can't do that in my wifes Mondeo. High 4wd vehicles will respond differently to lower saloons and estates so that is why they need to be driven differently. The elephant in the room will be the sudden need to avoid an obstacle in the road, or a vehicle in front of you. Avoiding, or being able to deal with the the unexpected is vital. The thing I fear most is a blow out when the large front tyre drops the small 16 inch wheel down.. ugh!

Other Clive

 

[Sedo]

Does anyone know how the proportion of accidents involving caravans, relates to the national statistics for accidents?

i.e. are there a greater risk proportionally when towing than normal?

Tomo

 

[Gagakev]

Sorry haven't kept up with you all just got back from a nice break in the Cotswold's.

Think Keith and Jim may have stumbled on an interesting point,

I used to have the Pjero/Shogun High top model, and boy did that sway, so much so I changed it for a clio for the wife!

Now got shogun sport, much lower roofline and sticks to the road much better in fact its a pleasure to drive.

You may be interested to know that I always used the bathroom scales for the nose weight but got fed up running up and down stairs so I actually brought the new sit on towball type had a even better tow as I think the bathroom scales are not accurate

enough

Kev

 

[Happy-Lappy]

Sorry haven't kept up with you all just got back from a nice break in the Cotswold's.

Think Keith and Jim may have stumbled on an interesting point,

I used to have the Pjero/Shogun High top model, and boy did that sway, so much so I changed it for a clio for the wife!

Now got shogun sport, much lower roofline and sticks to the road much better in fact its a pleasure to drive.

You may be interested to know that I always used the bathroom scales for the nose weight but got fed up running up and down stairs so I actually brought the new sit on towball type had a even better tow as I think the bathroom scales are not accurate

enough

Kev

GagaKev,

The reason your bathroom scales are not accurate, is probably down to the fact that your wife (like mine), adjusts them for her feel good factor and forgets to re-set them prior to you checking the noseweight,

best regards, Martin

PS. We've just got back from the Hoburne Cotswolds site and we too had a great time.

 

[Sedo]

While you're on about ride quality, we tow with a Sedona which we really like, but not long ago we had a new Sorento as a courtesy car whilst ours was being serviced.

I've always liked the look of the Sorento and must admit at being tempted a few times, but on driving directly after the Sedona found it a bit 'lively' on the back suspension.

I thought though this would probably be better when towing with the hitch weight.

Tom

 

[Gagakev]

GagaKev,

The reason your bathroom scales are not accurate, is probably down to the fact that your wife (like mine), adjusts them for her feel good factor and forgets to re-set them prior to you checking the noseweight,

best regards, Martin

PS. We've just got back from the Hoburne Cotswolds site and we too had a great time.

Happy-Lappy,

Glad you had a nice time, lovely in the Cotswolds.

Wish I knew the reason about the scales before, could have saved

my self some money!!!

Kev

 

[KeithJ]

Just found the following advice in the 2009 Toyota Rav 4 (US version) handbook:

"Utility Vehicle Precautions

"This vehicle belongs to the utility vehicle class, which has higher ground clearance and narrower tread (track??) in relation to the height of its center of gravity to make it capable of performing a wide variety of off road applications.

"Specific design characteristics give it a higher center of gravity than ordinary passenger cars. This vehicle design feature causes this type of vehicle to be more likely to rollover. And utility vehicles have a significantly higher rollover rate than other types of vehicles.

"It is not designed for cornering at the same speeds as ordinary passenger cars any more than low slung sports cars designed to perform satisfactorily under off-road conditions. Therefore, sharp turns at exessive speeds may cause rollover."

Taking into account that the Rav 4 is one of the better handling SUVs, the above must be even more relevant to some other makes and models.

Keith