Vat cut for campsites

[Buckman]

One MP Mark Harper is stating that campsites should be allowed to keep the difference in the VAT! Typical politician where the mouth moves before brain engages gear. The VAT reduction is there to encourage people to visit campsites, restaurants and other accommodation. What doesn't he understand about that simple statement?

 

[Raywood]

The magazine says the C&CC are losing £25 million as a result of the pandemic. When losses are built up at that rate then you can see why they may need to do something.

 

[otherclive]

The magazine says the C&CC are losing £25 million as a result of the pandemic. When losses are built up at that rate then you can see why they may need to do something.

And the CCC have rolled over membership too which I felt wasn't necessary.

 

[Buckman]

And the CCC have rolled over membership too which I felt wasn't necessary.

We are not members of the C&CC however I think it was a very nice gesture. Somehow I doubt if they have lost anything near £25 million, but it sounds good.

 

[otherclive]

We are not members of the C&CC however I think it was a very nice gesture. Somehow I doubt if they have lost anything near £25 million, but it sounds good.

I guess when the Treasurer reports at the AGM all will be revealed fir the FY just gone. But there will be forecasts associated with loss of business in FY 20/21 which will affect the finances and also affect future charges.

 

[woodsieboy]

VAT can become complicated when different rates apply, we are VAT registered and recently had to make adjustments for PPE at zero rate, the problem was that our suppliers charged zero rate on new stock but existing stock had been bought at 20% rate, we were obliged to charge zero rate on PPE regardless, and then we claim back the VAT paid as usual on both types of purchases.in the case of campsites they will have to collect the VAT at the date on tne transaction, so you could pay 20% on you deposit, and 5% on the balance, or they could treat the whole transaction as at the time of the deposit, either way the money the campsite gets to keep is the same, my understanding of the temporary cut was to encourage customers to book campsites and not to give the campsites extra profit.

 

[Raywood]

The magazine does not say if the figure is a potential loss for the year or a drop in income that might be partially offset by other savings, Either way the accounts will make pretty sorry reading at the end of the year.

 

[woodsieboy]

Just checked website for site we are due to go to in Cornwall in August, on their Facebook page they are offering V AT refund to anybody who has paid in full, and those who have only paid deposit will get price adjusted for lower rate VAT when payment is made.

 

[Buckman]

I wonder how many camp sites will pass on the VAT reduction. We have a lodge and a pitch booked at Moreton in March campsite mid September so not sure if we will see any VAT reduction. This was booked in early June and a deposit paid for the lodge or Yurt. No deposit for the pitch. We have to pay the balance for the lodge mid August. Any thoughts?

 

[JezzerB]

I think the privately owned sites probably need this extra money-been a lot of land there lying doing nothing to maintain. Am happy for that -but glad the clubs are passing it on!

 

[otherclive]

I wonder how many camp sites will pass on the VAT reduction. We have a lodge and a pitch booked at Moreton in March campsite mid September so not sure if we will see any VAT reduction. This was booked in early June and a deposit paid for the lodge or Yurt. No deposit for the pitch. We have to pay the balance for the lodge mid August. Any thoughts?

Ask them.

 

[Raywood]

The site offering the balance over the deposit is possibly getting it wrong as the VAT rate should be the date the contract is made.

 

[Buckman]

Ask them.

I have and no reply as yet?

 

[Buckman]

The site offering the balance over the deposit is possibly getting it wrong as the VAT rate should be the date the contract is made.

However the contract is not completed until you pay the balance?

 

[Raywood]

Buckman, I appreciate that point you make,but the contract is made at the point the terms are agreed at theVAT rate applying and a payment is made . That means VAT is payable at the rate payable when the contract becomes valid, which is normally when the deposit is paid and the date of completion is not relevant.
This explains why the C&CC are having to charge 20% on bookings made before the change, but the CAMH who have not taken deposits can charge can charge 5%.
It could be possible for sites to cancel the original booking, return the deposit, and then re book with a new deposit, to get round this, if they have the time and inclination. If seen to do this on a large scale though, the authorities might regard this as tax avoidance.

 

[ProfJohnL]

However the contract is not completed until you pay the balance?

Not quite- the contract is only confirmed when a prepayment has been made. The contract is only completed when the goods or services have been exchanged.

 

[Raywood]

Buckman, I appreciate that point you make, but the contract is made at the point the terms are agreed with the VAT rate applying and immediately any payment is made . That payment is the requirement for a valid contract. As the VAT rate when the deposit is paid is the relevant one, the date of final completion is not relevant.
This explains why the C&CC are having to charge 20% on bookings made before the change, but the CAMH who have not taken deposits, can charge can charge 5%, as without a deposit there is no valid contract.
It could be possible for sites to cancel the original booking, return the deposit, and then re book with a new deposit, to get round this, if they have the time and inclination. If seen to do this on a large scale though, the authorities might regard this as tax avoidance.

 

[RogerL]

Buckman, I appreciate that point you make, but the contract is made at the point the terms are agreed with the VAT rate applying and immediately any payment is made . That payment is the requirement for a valid contract. As the VAT rate when the deposit is paid is the relevant one, the date of final completion is not relevant.
This explains why the C&CC are having to charge 20% on bookings made before the change, but the CAMH who have not taken deposits, can charge can charge 5%, as without a deposit there is no valid contract.
It could be possible for sites to cancel the original booking, return the deposit, and then re book with a new deposit, to get round this, if they have the time and inclination. If seen to do this on a large scale though, the authorities might regard this as tax avoidance.

You're not right there.

The date of supply is:

• for goods - the date they’re sent, collected or made available (for example installed in the customer’s house)
• for services - the date the work is finished

Charge, reclaim and record VAT

How to charge VAT, calculate VAT, VAT rates, reclaim VAT on business expenses, keep digital records.

www.gov.uk

 

[Buckman]

So the way forward seems to be to cancel and then rebook straight away?

 

[Beachball]

We got a discount where we book we had the cash waiting in a envelope for the balance for some reason it was ten pounds cheaper .

 

[Raywood]

Buckman, I think this is more for work carried out and not campsites . Once you pay a deposit, then in acknowledging that with the cost, an invoice is effectively created and the VAT rate payable at that time is the one that counts. This seems to be the advice the C&CC has received and ties in with my understanding.
The situation is different from previous changes in VAT as before it has always gone up making the invoice date at the time of the agreement the better option for customers.

 

[RogerL]

Buckman, I think this is more for work carried out and not campsites . Once you pay a deposit, then in acknowledging that with the cost, an invoice is effectively created and the VAT rate payable at that time is the one that counts. This seems to be the advice the C&CC has received and ties in with my understanding.
The situation is different from previous changes in VAT as before it has always gone up making the invoice date at the time of the agreement the better option for customers.

Vat isn't finalised until the goods or service is "delivered"

VAT hasn't always gone up in the past - it reduced from 10 to 8% in 1974, 17.5 to 15% in 2008 as well as other reductions in the luxury and lower rates.

 

[Buckman]

If we have to pay the VAT at 20% so be it, however a response to my email to the company Experience Freedom who manage the lodges , yurts etc (not CMC) would be helpful.

Update went back to the Experience Freedom website and they have now updated their webpages. Sadly no VAT reduction. Luckily this is a one off booking as a special treat for daughter and family as those pods, yurts etc are well over priced.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If we have to pay the VAT at 20% so be it, however a response to my email to the company Experience Freedom who manage the lodges , yurts etc (not CMC) would be helpful.

Update went back to the Experience Freedom website and they have now updated their webpages. Sadly no VAT reduction. Luckily this is a one off booking as a special treat for daughter and family as those pods, yurts etc are well over priced.

If you think it is/was too expensive then why book it?

By definition if you have agreed to go ahead with a booking, you have concluded the projected cost is worth it, otherwise you would not have booked it.

Family pressure may have pushed you, but if you had genuinely thought it was not worth it, no amount of pressure would force you to book it.

 

[otherclive]

If you think it is/was too expensive then why book it?

By definition if you have agreed to go ahead with a booking, you have concluded the projected cost is worth it, otherwise you would not have booked it.

Family pressure may have pushed you, but if you had genuinely thought it was not worth it, no amount of pressure would force you to book it.

I know what Buckman means. We have done similarly in so far as hiring lodge at a Forest Commission site. I thought it over priced by my gauge but it was a treat for the family. Sometimes heart rules head.