Vauxhall Cars

[colin(bridgend)]

Why is our government and especially Lord Mandelson hell bent on saving Vauxhall Motors but showed very little interest in Jaguar/Land Rover when Ford sold it off and no interest in saving MG/Rover. Could it be that there is a general election looming or is he influenced by his Russian friend who is financally backing the Canadian bid.

I will agree it would be shameful to see Vauxhall cars go to the wall as over the years they have produced some very good vehicles but the same could be said for the other vehicle manufacturers who have fallen by the wayside.

 

[smiley]

Why? I don't know there not saving anyone else.

My company has been in trouble all last year, I now have to drive 35 each way to keep my job, don't know for how long.

So, needless to say DO I CARE ABOUT JOBS AT VAUXHALL or any other place at the moment.

No.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks to gross mismanagement and Gordies pension stealth taxes I ceased work 5 years earlier than I expected. I was luckier than most and managed to get most of my lump sum out but at the cost of a severely reduced monthly pension.

You work all your life , paying high taxes, just to get robbed at the last minute. The sooner Gordie moves on the better for me. But I'm not sure who I want next!!

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[S-MaxJon]

I wasn't aware the gov't were trying to save Vauxhall by means of financial assistance.

Being an American firm why would the British taxpayer bail out a company that has such massive debts through mis-management in the US.

With regards to MG Rover,LR and Jaguar they had millions of taxpayers money pumped into them over the past 3 decades and still they were un-successful in remaining a viable business.

 

[Lutz]

As Vauxhall and the rest of the European GM operations are not doing too badly and could probably survive quite well on their own, the intent is to separate them from GM quickly before GM goes bust and others get drawn into the maelstrom through no fault of their own.

 

[ScouseIan]

"We live in a global economy" we are always hearing. A trendy little soundbite that may sound cool in a meeting or in the news, etc. But what does it actually mean? It means that 'goods' and 'services' are available elsewhere in the world at much cheaper prices. fuel is cheap (relatively) so (according to the people who are only after making a profit) it makes more sense to ship cars from China, Korea, etc to the UK for sale. Their labour rates are cheaper. land, some parts, etc, etc. Unless we stop it from happening this problem will get worse.

We have always been at the top of the pecking order in terms of how rich the country is. This is being eroded just like it is for all developed countries like USA, Germany etc. What is happening is in fact 'fair' in a global sense. Why should we have jobs in favour of somebody in China? But thats idealistic isn't it.

The only way to combat this it seems to me is to restrict the imports. This is the thin end of the wedge though and would only create many more problems. Can we afford to just pull out of europe, global trade deals, etc, etc.

I don't know about you but I'd give it a go at being independent. A bit like The Good Life for a country.

Rant over

 

[Lutz]

It's not just a matter of lower labour costs but also efficiency of production. Some of these countries with very low labour spoil their own advantage by gross inefficiency, and that's where we score again. Besides, quality and reliability often leaves a lot to be desired. Therefore, the competition from China etc. doesn't worry me one bit so long as we do our job properly and get quality and cost in line with one another.

 

[ScouseIan]

Lutz, I'm afraid that sounds like 'management speak'. How can we compete on a level playing field if in other countries they can treat their workers like slaves, employ children, avoid H&S issues, etc and then just ship it here. The businessmen who do this are sometimes politicians also and are happy with this scenario. Its a bit of a conflict of interest in my opinion.

Once these other countries get their efficiency in order they will run us ragged.

In principle, the idea of us all competing on a global basis, all friends, all races and the best one winds is a fanciful one. In reality it could mean 'our' jobs. That means we lose houses, holidays, cars, caravans, etc.

I say we protect what we've got.

Its a governments responsibilty to ensure there are jobs for their people. They cannot standby whilst an industry is decimated in favour of just allowing imports into the country just because they are cheaper and thats what consumers want.

ian

 

[colin(bridgend)]

What baffles me about the motor trade is the fact that cars are stockpiled in fields, etc. and are standing for some time - there have been reports of cars being sold with tyres fitted which are over two years old. Why don't the manufacturers drop the price of cars rather than stockpile and not sell - surely small profit is better than no profit at all.

 

[Lutz]

...... "How can we compete on a level playing field if in other countries they can treat their workers like slaves, employ children, avoid H&S issues, etc and then just ship it here. ......

We can because a lot of their stuff is rubbish. Besides, if we cut ourselves off from them, they'll do the same with us. And if our markets are already saturated, who's going to buy what we produce?

 

[ScouseIan]

We can't have it both ways. If we are goinf to stop imports we can't expect to export to those same countries in return.

Here's an idea. Lets make what we need here. Cars, food, tv's, clothers, warships, etc, etc.

Now I'm not saying shut down the ports tomorrow but what I am saying is that its the governments job to do this for us. Thats why we elected them. You see they are too interested in seeing everyone (business included) make money. They measure the economy in GDP rather than focus on keeping the country going.

Example, they see it cheaper for 'us' to buy ships from abroad rather than make them here. They only measure in monetary value. Its ok for us to do that. ie a british TV for

 

[Lutz]

If we built, say, cars only for our own market, the volumes would be too small to be really efficient. A car plant producing less than around 100,000 cars a year is difficult to run at a profit, bearing in mind what the average customer is prepared to pay.

 

[ScouseIan]

I'm suggesting we be self sufficient. You are talking about 'efficiency' in a global market. Think 'one country' efficiency.

Globalisation looks like hell to me.

Ian

 

[Lutz]

Fair enough, but then you've got to be prepared to pay a lot more for what you want.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Strange as it may seem, but I tend to agree with euro in so far that speed limits should be set based on a scientific basis rather than arbitrary choice of a mandarin, with an important rider that there are certain specific reasons to impose a substantially lower limit because of the proximity to schools etc.

However I am concerned at the universality of the conclusion that euro quoted at length near the top of the thread. It relied strongly on a statistical argument, but the information was incomplete, It did not indicate where the sampling took place, for example you would get different data sets if you sampled just after a downward speed limit change, compared to a location just before an upward speed limit change. Was the traffic of mixed vehicles or was it predominantly cars, what time of day or night, what was the traffic density etc

To paraphrase a famous quote - I'm not sure who but: 'There are lies, damn lies, and statistics'

I have hears that in my area, the policy of reducing speed limits is not wholly based on safety, but also on the fact that the speed limit of a road determines the frequency of inspection, and the quality of surface permitted. This would then be a major cost saving exercise. Perhaps someone with LA experience could confirm the principal of this?

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Oh well one of Lord Mandelson's plans has backfired on him. Lent a few million pounds to LDV to tide them over until they were bought by the Malaysen firm off his Russian friend. Now today they have pulled out of the deal so the country has lost the millions loaned and LDV is filing for bankruptcy. There goes more of our well earned tax. Who received the loan money - the Russian friend or the Malaysen company?

 

[602]

Hi.

I would rather live in a hovel I own, rather than a mansion that I rent. I want to be master of my own destiny.

How come we export our goods, and import similar goods? ie - cars.

Where is the profit in moving a sheep from North to South and back again? Happened prior to the last F&M epidemic.

How come somebody can buy a house on a mortgage, then rent it at a profit to somebody who can't afford the mortgage?

Where can I buy tickets to board these bandwaggons?

602

 

[Dustydog]

Scouse Ian

I agree, on principle I will not vote for the big three. They need a wake up call. I hear Martin Bell is thinking of standing as an Independent again.

602,

I think it's the fat cats getting richer at the expense of poor people. Dare I say it but this problem happened in Germany in the 30s and lead to the rise of the Nazis and the murder of the Jews . Not something we want here but take heed , lessons from history etc.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[ScouseIan]

602 - The EU sells these tickets for the bandwagons. They won't cost you a penny and in fact they'll pay your expenses for the 'trip'.

Yes, I see LDV are also in trouble. Seems to be a recurring theme here. A UK company is in trouble and a foreign company buys it. Lets think, why would they do it? They will have a name, a distribution, service and support network, goodwill, etc. The bits they don't want are the manufacturing ability. Why would they when they can make these vans the other side of the world for half the price and ship them here for a pittance.

If the playing field was that level throughout the world, the cost of shipping would add so much extra cost it would not be worth it.

Ian

 

[Lutz]

As unfortunate as it may seem, but the cost of shipping is negligible within the overall cost of a product.

When I was responsible for vehicle glazing on all GM Europe cars, we had one supplier who obtained his raw material for making glass from Belgium. This was shipped to Italy where it was turned into flat plate glass. This was returned to Belgium and cut and bent to size. The reveal mouldings around the outside were then applied in another of their plants in the Czech Republic and the finished product was assembled to the car in Spain. Despite shuttling material across Europe and back, he was still the most competitive supplier.

 

[ScouseIan]

Hmmm, yes, that was part of my point that I didn't make very well.

I remember a tv programme once where a company in Italy made knickers. Only they just made the front and back. They were then shipped to Spain where they were sewn together and shipped back to Italy where they were then distributed all over Europe. This is madness that one way or another, taxation or legislation we must stop. Whilst it makes economic sense to do that now, try justifying it to people 300 years from now when they see the scant regard we showed to the worlds resources. Nothing to do with global warming, it just doesn't make sense.

Lutz, whilst it appears you did a great job in securing the most competitive supplier across Europe I see it as a governments responsibility to restrict movement of goods because its 'wrong' and not allow it just because fuel is cheap.

Capitalism isn't necessarily the answer.

Ian

 

[Zafiral]

As the EU is deemed one state for trade puropses, then this sort of thing will not stop. The made in EU badge does not help.

However shipping things round Europe is small fry compared to shipping everything from the far east. I heard that Scottish Prawns are shipped frozen to China (or somewhere over there), shelled and boxed in a low income economy and then shipped frozen back. They are then still sold as Scottish prawns as that is where they are caught.

 

[602]

Hi,

Anyone remember the TV program "Hadleigh"? (We watched it in B&W, so a long time ago). The hero was commisioned to investigate how a French company could supply a British built power station to South America for less than the UK manufacturer could. Answer.....the French Government gave French companies a bonus for exporting to non-EU countries. The profit was in the bonus. Fiction? Yeah.....but.....

Years ago, Barbara and I walked into a Leyland (BMC?) dealer, with semi serious intention of buying a new MG. The salesman saw us coming, turned his back and walked away. Another time we went to test drive a Vauxhall estate. Very serious, money in bank. We had great difficulty getting a salesman to talk to us. Eventualy got a drive in their demo car. Filthy, ashtray was overflowing. We bought a Yugo. Last year, Barbara wrote off her SAAB, went looking for a new car. Tried several dealers, salemen couldn't be bothered. Eventualy found a Renault/KIA dealer where we had to queue for a desk to sign up. Salesman said they were selling 1500 cars a year. Bought a KIA. Car was faultless. Twelve months later it was due to be retaxed @

 

[602]

Hi,

I don't know about now, but a few years ago a Honda car in USA cost the same in dollars, as one in UK cost in pounds. So the one in UK cost 50% more? Probably for a lower spec car? And in Japan they drive on the left?

Why the difference? Extra shipping cost to "Treasure Island"?

602

 

[Lutz]

The difference in shipping costs for a car from Japan to the US compared with Japan to Europe is probably well under