Vauxhall Insignia sports tourer, 2.0 cdti , auto se or sri KERBWEIGHT??????

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Hi all do any of you know the kerbweight of this car. It seems vauxhall havent relised kerbweights for this car!!!!.
Anyway ive spoke to cc tech and vauxhall tech and no one can help. The only site which gives a kerbweight is the what tow car site but thats in netherland how accurate is this?.

thanks

jo

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jo-Anne,

Like wise I had difficulties finding any published unladen weight figures for the models you list. I did find some weights for some models, but as you point out many aren't specified. I did find two generic types:-

Insignia Sports Tourer 2.0 CDTi (195bhp) SRi 5d = 1856Kg
Insignia Sports Tourer 2.0 CDTi (195bhp) 4x4 SRi 5d = 1970Kg

It strikes me that these are rather high figures for what is a main stream vehicle, so I cant trust the data, and it may not reflect the values of the cars you are looking at.

I am not sure why you want the Kerbweight? it is of little practical value for two reasons, firstly the figure (if you find one) will not be accurate for your car, and secondly all critical values are upper limits that you must not exceed, and the simplest way of checking is at a weigh bridge.

However have you checked the cars V5 document which might list its ULW or Mass in Running Order, neither of which are exactly the kerb weight but they will be close.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Duplicate Post

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

I wanted to work out the % i would be towing at as my caravan is 1472mtplm and i like towing around 85-87% so for safety reasons i wanted to know the kerbweight. Am i doing it wrong then?.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Jo-Anne,

The conventional way of calculating the towing ratio does call for the kerbweight. But the kerbweight is not an officially recognised measurement, so not all manufactures quote one, and even when they do, the real weight of the car can be somewhat different for a variety of reasons.

I have done a little more digging and found that Whatcar.com

do carry a wide range of data about the Insignia including kerbweight.

check out:-

http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/vauxhall/insignia-sports-tourer/summary/25825-6
I must point out that towing safety is about much more than just the towing ratio.

 

[Lutz]

Because kerbweights are vehicle specific, depending on the level of equipment and factory-fitted options, it would be wrong for the manufacturer to quote one single figure for a particular model. Published data can therefore always only serve as a rough guideline.
The approximate figure that I have for the above model is 1610kg, which is way off the 1856 or 1970kg quoted by the Prof. The 1610kg is probably for the base vehicle without any options so the actual kerbweight will probably be higher and more likely somewhere between the two. In practice, however, accuracy is not that important as even a 50kg variance either way is only going to change the weight ratio by less than 3%, which would not be noticeable by even an experienced driver.

 

[Surfer]

If I remember correctly the Insignia 2.0 diesel cannot tow more than 1600kgs anyway. The all wheel drive can tow a bit more. Fairly sure kerbweight was about the same as the Mondeo, however kerbweight is now irrelevant as it si MIRO that counts.

 

[Lutz]

Yes,the 2.0 cDTI auto Sports Tourer is normally rated at 1600kg, the 4WD version with mechanical handbrake 1800kg or 1700kg with an electric handbrake.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

thanks all of you for the advise but surfer can you explain a bit more please with regards to mtplm and kerbweight not important now its the miro?. the caravan club tech didnt mention that to me today?.

thanks

jo

 

[Lutz]

I hope Surfer won't mind me replying to your question.
Although kerbweight is a very common term, its definition is covered by convention only. Kerbweight is not documented anywhere. UK law refers to 'unladen weight' which is not the same as kerbweight. Kerbweight includes all fluids (a full fuel tank, water, oil, etc.) which unladen weight does not.
To clean up the mess in terminology and achieve a common understanding throughout the industry, including foreign manufacturers, a new term 'MIRO' was introduced. MIRO is clearly defined in an EU Directive and is now the industry standard throughout the EU. MIRO is again slightly different to kerbweight as it includes only a 90% full fuel tank, but on the other hand an additional 75kg for the driver and sundry items. For some reason the V5c certificate refers to MIRO as Mass in Service. The figures in brochures and published data from the car manufacturers are nowadays also on the basis of the said EU Directive unless stated otherwise.
As you see, there are minor differences in all definitions. However, for practical purposes and for everyday use, including calculation of weight ratios, the differences are too small to worry about. For the average car, 50kg either way will change to weight ratio by less than 3% and that won't be noticeable in practice.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

Update, vauxhall cust services head office rang me back after speaking to tech guys and said the kerbweight of a insignia sports tourer 2.0 tdci with air con is 1701 so an auto would be slightly heavier. so with the kerbweight being at least 1701 and my caravan being 1472 i would be towing at roughly 85%. i know some of you dont work it out like this but caravan club have been working it out for years like this and we have been towing using this way and in laws also this way and kits worked. so without getting to technical becuase that beyond me in your opinions would this outfit be a good match?.

thanks again

jo x

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jo Anne,

No one can actually say that without quivication that your out fit is a good match, as we have pointed out that good towing is not just about weight ratios.

All we can say is that the caravan is within the cars towing capabilities, and given that all other factors are taken into consideration has the capability of being a good match.

 

[Lutz]

Update, vauxhall cust services head office rang me back after speaking to tech guys and said the kerbweight of a insignia sports tourer 2.0 tdci with air con is 1701 so an auto would be slightly heavier. so with the kerbweight being at least 1701 and my caravan being 1472 i would be towing at roughly 85%. i know some of you dont work it out like this but caravan club have been working it out for years like this and we have been towing using this way and in laws also this way and kits worked. so without getting to technical becuase that beyond me in your opinions would this outfit be a good match?.

thanks again

jo x

Further to the Prof's reply, unless you gave Vauxhall customer service the chassis number of your car, any figure that they quote can only be approximate. Besides, Vauxhall, like most manufacturers, quote MIRO according to the EU Directive when they talk about kerbweight, so there will be minor differences there, too. But, as already indicated, a 'good' match is not something absolute and depends as much on one's own preference and ability as anything. I towed at little under 100% for almost 10 years and never felt unable to handle it. I'm not saying that I would necessarily recommend such practice without reservation, but it just goes to show that it weight ratio is a very relative thing and not absolute.

 

[Surfer]

The kerbweight for the 2.0L 160 PS CDI tourer auto Vauxhall Insignia is unlikely to be any where near 1700kgs as the maximum braked towing weight is only 1600kg. The 2.0L 130PS auto tourer is not registered to tow anything so hopefully you do not have this version! The 4 x 4 version can tow between 1700 and 1800kg depending on bhp. Gross weight is is 2315kgs. I think the kerbweight is probably about 1600kg. For more info click on thsi link http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/bypass/download/gb/InsigniaBrochure.pdf

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

surfer vauxhall tech head office have told me the kerbweight of a sports tourer 2.0cdti with aircon is 1701 so its within to do it and mine will be an auto and 160bhp. they say say max towing 1600 because they havent given out all kerbweights thats why they say that.

 

[Lutz]

Surfer, you've read the brochure wrong. It's not that the 2.0 130PS auto tourer is not registered to tow anything, but that is a version that is simply not built.
It is quite possible that the kerbweight could be as high as 1700kg if it is a car loaded with lots of factory-fitted options.
Anyway, the maximum braked towing weight is independent of kerbweight. One cannot deduce technical towing limits from kerbweight.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I note from the brochure that Surfer points to, that on page 67
they list the Gross Vehicle Weights, and the Max. towing weights for each model.

The layout of the table and the information it contains is in my opinion misleading. If you read the table you may think that each model has a Gross vehicle weight (GVW) to which you can add the the "Max. towing weights" and that will give you the Gross train weight. Wrong - the two bits of information are not linkable, because of the note under the table, and I quote:

".....The maximum towing weights are based on the ability of the car, with two occupants of 75kg each, to restart on a 12% gradient, which is approximately 1 in 8.3, at sea level. At altitudes above 1500 metres, the engine output may drop with a corresponding reduction in towing capability. Any extra weight, such as luggage or additional passengers, should be deducted from the maximum towing weight...... "

What this means is that the Max. towing weights only apply when the car is only carrying the driver and one passenger. The car is not at its GVW.

It therefore seems likely that insignias Gross Train weight will be less than GVW + Max. towing weight. Thus restricting the weight of trailer you can tow if there are more passengers and luggage in the car.

This is a nasty trick that Renault and some other makes have been guilty of for some time with their specifications.

As a consequence I have to withdraw my comment about the abilities of the insignia being a good match and I cannot make any recommendation about the Insignia good or bad as regards towing.

To be able to offer any clear advice needs full data including GTW and MIRO.

 

[otherclive]

I have looked at the XC 70 Owners Manual and Volvo are very good in defining what kerbweight comprises and make the point too that to be accurate you need to weigh the car as equipment such as electric seats, audio system, GPS equipment, tow bar etc will all increase kerbweight must be deducted from payload so as not to exceed Gross Vehicle Weight. They then direct the reader to the tally plate that gives Max Train Weight and max axle loadings as well as then going to the V5 which gives Mass in Service ( ie kerbweight). In my case MIS is 1950kg, GVW/Max Permissible Mass is 2400kg and Max Train Weight is 4500kg with 2100kg for max braked trailer weight. So all the data is to hand, how accurate the V5 Mass In Service figure is I do not know. But with the XC70 you can have a loaded car up to GVW and still tow max trailer weight without exceeding GTW. But the cararavan:car weight ratio would not be one I'd want to drive too far with!!!
I would be interested to hear how MIS from the V5 compares to weighed weights. Not that I am concerned re the XC 70 as I am well within any of my outfits margins unless the V5 is very inaccurate.

 

[Lutz]

".....The maximum towing weights are based on the ability of the car, with two occupants of 75kg each, to restart on a 12% gradient, which is approximately 1 in 8.3, at sea level. At altitudes above 1500 metres, the engine output may drop with a corresponding reduction in towing capability. Any extra weight, such as luggage or additional passengers, should be deducted from the maximum towing weight...... "

I don't know where the writer of the text in the Vauxhall brochure got his information from, but it conflicts with EU Directive 95/48/EC which states, quote:
3.3.3. The motor vehicle towing a trailer must be able to start the vehicle
combination — laden to its maximum mass — five times on an uphill
gradient of at least 12 % within five minutes.
In other words, the maximim permissible towload does NOT apply for 2 occupants only.
Vauxhall models generally have a gross train weight which is the sum of the max. GVW and the max.towload. The only time when this is not the case is for higher than normal towloads that apply for 8% and/or 10% gradients or for certain types of trailer such as those with a low drag coefficient or low moment of inertia. However, to my knowledge, Vauxhall do not publicise such concessionary higher towload figures.

Regarding Otherclive's question about the Mass in Service figure, the V5c is a document of legal significance so any figure stated therein is definitive, no matter what result subsequent measurement on a weighbridge may come up with. Right or wrong, the V5c figure counts.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jo-anne,
I'm sorry that this has got rather technical, but Surfers posting has put the cat amongst the pigeons. the document he has found changes the basis on which the cars towed weight limit is based. and until Vauxhall publish all the data from their type approval documents there is now doubt about what teh car can tow.

Hello Lutz,
It seems there is a lack of consistent detail about the Insignia in the public domain. I am quite prepared to belive the brochure is the work of an advertising exec, rather than an engineer, but it is of a major concern that this brochure seems to be the only public document on which consumers can deduce towing information sourced from GM. The fact it may not be consistent with the EU directive is of no value until GM publish either a retraction of the brochure or all the data of the relvant type approvals.
Whilst I would like to believe Vauxhall have followed the EU directive on weight limits until they confirm it we hae to follow the infrmation in the brochure.

 

[Lutz]

Hi Prof,
Whether or not maximum towloads on a 12% gradient were established with two occupants or at max. GVW, this does not change the net result that, in general, maximum permissible gross train weight is the sum of GVW and max. towload for Vauxhall models. There may be the odd exception, but I cannot think of any, Only if GTW were less than the sum would the statement in the brochure make any sense.