Vectra overheating

[Peter_374350880]

Wonder if anyone can help me... I have a Vectra B 2002 (last of the old shape) which I use to tow an Avondale Orion. Towing weight is less than 1000kg but I still have overheating issues when manoevering. I know these engines are prone to running warm, the stat runs from 98-103 degrees!! tends to run rather hot even without the van on the back

I was wondering if anyone else has upgraded the cooling system to get round this problem. Tried Kenlowe and they were worse than useless, saying their product might solve the problem but giving me absolutely no confidence that for spending £100 would make any difference!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Peter

Vectra over heating has not been a major issue on this forum. The weight of the trailer is well within the cars max limit so it should not be a problem for the car. so I'm inclined to think it may be a particular problem with your car, or how you use the engine when manoeuvring the trailer.

When manoeuvring, as soon as the outfit is moving it is better to fully engage the clutch rather than using high revs and slipping it. I know this can be tricky with petrol engines where the engine has little power at low rpm. It is much easier with diesels with thier greater torque at low revs.

It may be worth having your garage flush the cooling system to try and get rid of a any sludge in the water galleries and radiator, but be warned that flushing may expose some leaks.

I think you may have been a bit hard on the fan manufacturer, I do not see how they could be expected to guarantee a solution to your problem when its cause is unknown.

 

[Peter_374350880]

John.... Didnt expect a solution from Kenlowe, just some air of confidence that they thought it would help.

Regarding the clutch suggestion, its an automatic petrol engine. Tows like a dream, a lot better than I expected when I bought it. Cooling system has been fully flushed a few months ago with new coolant etc.

Was rather hoping someone else had experienced the same and had some pearls of wisdom to share.

 

[ProfJohnL]

John.... Didnt expect a solution from Kenlowe, just some air of confidence that they thought it would help.

Regarding the clutch suggestion, its an automatic petrol engine. Tows like a dream, a lot better than I expected when I bought it. Cooling system has been fully flushed a few months ago with new coolant etc.

Was rather hoping someone else had experienced the same and had some pearls of wisdom to share.

I'm sorry I've not offered any new possible solutions, I can only point to the fact that I used this forum for many years, and I cannot recall a single previous thread on Vectra's overheating.

Just one more thought, the water thermostat may not be opening fully which could lead to engine overheating under heaver than normal loading - may be worth checking - I had this with an Bedford CF many years ago, find unloaded but when loaded or in stop start traffic steam was soon erupting.

I obviously was not party to any dealings you have had with Kenlowe, but if an problem arises that has no general history, and one that seems to have no obvious common cause, it would be unwise in the extreme for any company to confidently say that an add on or replacement device will cure it.

 

[Daveg1]

John.... Didnt expect a solution from Kenlowe, just some air of confidence that they thought it would help.

Regarding the clutch suggestion, its an automatic petrol engine. Tows like a dream, a lot better than I expected when I bought it. Cooling system has been fully flushed a few months ago with new coolant etc.

Was rather hoping someone else had experienced the same and had some pearls of wisdom to share.

I towed with a 2.0 litre Vectra B automatic for several years and it never displayed any tendency to overheat.

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Sounds like a fault with your car. Are you sure the cooling fan is cutting in? If it is then i'd try a new thermostat for starters. If its still overheating then it must be either a faulty water pump or a blockage in the cooling system.

 

[Peter_374350880]

Sounds like a fault with your car. Are you sure the cooling fan is cutting in? If it is then i'd try a new thermostat for starters. If its still overheating then it must be either a faulty water pump or a blockage in the cooling system.

Cooling system all checks out ok - radiator fan cutting in and out as it should only the rate of increase in temperature seems to be too quick for the fan to counteract. Sometimes even solo the needle almost hits the red zone then drops back quite quickly I know from my mechanic that the stat operates from 98-103 so almost at boiling point anyway. Was hoping someone else had had similar issues and found another way to get round it

 

[xtrailman]

Peter

Two things you can do to help.

Run with the heater on full heat, but more importantly put the aircon on, this will run the condense fan, giving two cooling fans.

Also i believe by increasing the antifreeze mix, you will increase the boiling point of the coolant.

THe Honest john web site is your best bet.

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Peter - i stand by what I wrote before - you have a fault with the car. Fitting a kenlowe or running with the heater or aircon on are treating the symptoms and not the cause. Its either thermostat, water pump or a blockage. There's also an outside chance that the cyl head gasket has gone & combustion gasses are getting into the water causing air locks. I'd take it to a different garage for further investigations.

 

[seth1]

Peter,

In actual fact by running the aircon it will warm the engine up.simply because the engine is driving another ancillary namely the aircon motor.some pretty basic things can be done here even at home,firstly try blowing the rad out from the engine side with either high pressure garden jetter,or maybe a good hosepipe with an attatchment on it.

secondly,i doubt whether the thermostat has an opening that high,why not take it out stick it in a pan of proper boiling hot water,boiled on a stove not the kettle,and check its full opening.make sure its refitted or it,ll cause more problems.

Thirdly bypass the fan switch in the rad and fit a relay controlled by a toggle switch inside the car,that way you can control the fan.

Fourthly make sure its not pressurizing i,e headgasket failure.

but this could be due to any of the above.

 

[Gafferbill]

Peter... providing there is nothing wrong with you Vectra's engine.......

I endorse Seth's advice of fitting a switch inside your car to enable you to turn the cooling fan on manually.

I fitted one on a previous car I owned.

I used to turn it on when arriving at a site and left it on until I had unhitched the caravan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I appreciate the theory behind having a manual switch to cause the fan to run, but it should not be necessary, and it is masking a problem rather than curing it.

I encourage any other Vectra owners to report if they have had cooling problems, but up until now it has not been issues that suggests it is not a generic fault with the model.

Something is preventing the engine from getting rid of its heat, and given the circumstances every thing points to some restriction in the coolant flow, or possibly a gasket failure. There is little point just treating the symptom, as the cause is still there and likely to get worse over time.

Even if the radiator is super efficient with the fan running and drops its water temperature, the engine may still be running hotter than it should. This will affect the efficiency of combustion, reduce power, and lead to premature failure of temperature sensitive parts.

 

[Lutz]

Why fit a switch to control the fan? If the fan isn't coming on automatically when the engine is hot, there's something wrong with the car. Besides, if you rely on manual switching of the fan, chances are that sometime or other you'll forget to turn it on just when it's needed.

 

[xtrailman]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that fitting a manual override switch is a CURE.

But what it will do is cool the engine, it will not wait for the cut in temp to be reached, so cooling will start at a lower temperature, that will have the effect of increasing the time taken for the engine temp to reach the danger level.

Seth

By having the heating set to full temp, the fan on manual full speed, and the aircon on, the aircon compressor will not be loading the engine, but the condenser fan should be running, so two fans should be running, assuming as with my last two cars that you have two fans under the bonnet.

 

[Lutz]

There agian, why should one want to start the cooling fan before the engine has reached operating temperature? Besides, too much cooling will increase CO

 

[Peter_374350880]

My this has sparked a debate hasnt it!!

To answer a number of questions in one...

1 The head gasket is fine.. was tested last week

2 The fan does cut in and out as it should

3. The thermostat seems to be working but the original spec for this is 98-103 degrees so it will always tend to run on the hot side.

4. Coolant strength is correct, running at about 30% and was changed last week.

5. Water pump is fine though has a slight leak from the gasket, will get this sorted when the timing belt is done next month.

6 Engine has done over 151k but is the same now as it was when I bought it at 59K

I appreciate all the comments and advise from various sources, think I will change the thermostat anyway just to eliminate it from the equation and see where that takes me

Peter

 

[seth1]

Hello,

Ray,i must ask how does the refrigerant gas travel around the system if the aircon motor is stationary?Just as an example an engine driven cooling fan on yes admittedly much larger engines (10litres)requires 50 bhp to drive it.Putting the aircon on doesnt always enable the cooling fan.

Getting back to the issue,is the temp sender working correctly?i,d suspect if it was genuinly hot,or overheating it,d push water out the header tank/expansion bottle.My father had a vectra before the present c5 and this also ran very hot.

Cooling fan regulary running even in the cold months.

Understandable with 150k,waterjackets are going to be coated as is radiator,why not try washing out with soda cristals.

Cant see the problem with remote switch if it cures it and your happy with it.

seth

 

[joeby]

I hve had which i thought was overheating , on our Nissan Terrano the gauge on the dash would go into the red after about 20 miles , so i would stop and let it cool down before it boiled over , so i took the thermostat out , flushed the system through , put in new thermostat , had lots wrong diagnoses from various people , some said a new rad , another said a new head gasket , new pump , so as it never actually boiled over , i bought a new sender which goes on the thermostat housing and gives the reading on your dashboard , and bingo i resolved the problem today , it was just a faulty sender , to my releif

 

[smiley]

I don't know about the technical stuff. We had a vectra by the time it got to 4 years it was useless.

The last summer holiday in France we had to stop and wait for it to cool. Hubby said not to put the air con on, I said would you like to walk and keep yourself cool {pipe delimiter}

We got a mondeo fantastic, this mondeo rubbish and dangerous.

When it rains and your driving merrily along you cannot see out of the off side wing mirror.

Were going to tell ford what we think starting with the chairman.

 

[Steve L]

HI Peter.

I can see by your check list that you have covered all the obvious things and found them to function correctly.

I had the same experience with Renault 25's. But was able to cure it very well by fitting a by pass switch for the electric fan. This enabled me to manually control when the fan came on which maintained the temperature to normal. All it cost me was a switch, 10ft of wire and a couple of scotch lock connectors.

On our current 1998 Laguna, we tow with the air con on. This does run the car cooler as the air con fan is on. We have tried towing without it and the temperature climbs until the auto fan kicks in. That struggles to keep the engine temperature out of the red on the guage. As soon as I put the air con on the two fans are then able to maintain a normal temperature range.

Like you I tested all the bits, flushed the radiator and fitted a new thermostat. I realy think that some manufacturers don't build in any extra cooling ability to manage the towing senario. However that doesn't mean that there is not a way round that can be used without costing a fotune. Anyway, where could you fit and get effective cooling from a third (kenlowe)fan on the radiator?

Steve L.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Peter and Steve in Leo,

I'm sorry but this does not actually help you but :-.

If a car is quoted as having a particular towing capacity by the manufacture, yet when it is used to tow and the trailer is within the weight limit and the car is not used hills steeper than the specification or faster (if a max speed limits is given) and it over heats, then it is faulty and not fit for purpose. (this applies to newish cars)

I did have a quite old car once, that started to overheat, and like you all the basic checks came back with reported faults, but an old friend suggests that some of the water galleries in the cylinder block may not have been cast correctly, and whilst the water flow was not unusually restricted, it wasn't getting to all the parts it need to. There was no cost effective cure, and I sold it as spares to another enthusiast.

Maybe its time to think of changing the car of possibly just finding another engine?

 

[xtrailman]

Seth

If the cabin temperature is set to max, there is no demand for the compressor, the compressor clutch will not engage,(so NO engine load).

But on the systems i have owned the condenser fan will run, this fan is sited adjacent to the engine cooling fan. Effectively as the condenser radiator is sited before the engine radiator, then both are cooled.

May i also point out that in days gone by a fixed cooling fan would only release a extra 3bhp if removed, no were near 50bhp

 

[seth1]

Ray i listed a engine driven cooling fan as an example.Forget days gone by,in my line of business everything uses them.Apart from now having an electromagnetic viscous hub.Obvously if the cabin temp is on max,the compressor wont be engaged.

 

[xtrailman]

Seth

I realise it was an example, all be it a pointless one?

 

[seth1]

Well ray if you new it was an example why respond to it?