Vehicle size driving in Europe

[Blackwatch]

Hi, I'm from the east coast of Canada and I'm planning a lengthy trip in Europe in the next year or so, assuming things return to normal.
Are there any vehicles that are just too big to tour Europe in? I plan on starting in Liverpool, doing the UK then across to France and then up to Norway, Sweden and Finland. Then moving south pretty much spending time in all countries over a 6-8 month time frame.
Ideally a Toyota 4Runner with a 16 foot camper trailer would be great but it sounds like there are restrictions towing a trailer in Europe.
The next idea is a Toyota Tundra with a pop up camper in the bed to keep the overall height down.
The third option would be to buy a sprinter van and convert it.
Thanks for your help.

 

[otherclive]

What restrictions are you thinking about and any country in particular? Caravans longer than 16 ft are commonplace. Fifth wheelers towed by pickups whilst not common are towed.

 

[JTQ]

With a conventional "car" licence you can drive any vehicle with a maximum loaded weight of up to 3,500 kgs, and tow a trailer with any weight that vehicle is allowed to tow. There is an upper limit to the total but nothing in conventional cars gets to challenge that. There is a different set of rules for licences to use commercial vehicles , as opposed to "cars" where the max allowable loaded weight is over 3500 kgs.

We can tow anything up to 2.55 metres wide, not including minor items like door handles.
Length wise the rules are a bit "silly" in it is not the trailers LOA that matters, but the length of the "box" on the trailer, thus issues like a long or short "A" frame between the box and hitch is of no issue.
The "box" can be up to 7 metres maximum.
As I said its daft.

We are presently in sync with the EU re sizes except there are differences on where and how long before "Long vehicle" rear plates are needed to be displayed.

 

[RogerL]

There's a whole different culture to towing between North America and Europe - in the former it's normal to use a "Body-On-Frame" SUV or pickup with a heavy travel trailer but in the latter it's normal to use much smaller monocoque cars and midsize (by North American standards) towing lightweight caravans.

 

[Blackwatch]

The regulations on towing a trailer seemed a bit murky. I thought I would need a BE license. The weight of the trailer is 1318 kgs and the 4Runner is 2863 kgs. This is their GVWR weight, not dry weight. So a total of 4200 kgs.
What I found was: The trailer is heavier than 750 kg and the combined weight of car and trailer is more than 3500 kg but less than 4250 kg. This is only allowed with a category B+ or BE driving license.
My research seems to keep indicating a B+ or BE license.

I'm not sure what my Canadian driver's license equates to in Europe. I do have a license that allows me to tow 4500+ kgs in Canada.
Ideally this setup would work best in my opinion. Allowing us to drop the trailer at a camp site and use the 4runner to explore the local area or mountain bike.

 

[otherclive]

With the GVW plus trailer maximum weight given by you, you would need a BE licence. If you decided to buy a U.K. outfit the BE would still be required for an outfit where GVW plus MTPLM (caravan maximum technical permissible laden right) exceeds 3500 kg. These are plated weights on the respective vehicle plates. So even if the car and caravan were empty the plated maximum weights not weighed weights govern the license category. You need to establish the equivalence of your Canadian licence wrt European and U.K. categories.

 

[bertieboy1]

With a conventional "car" licence you can drive any vehicle with a maximum loaded weight of up to 3,500 kgs, and tow a trailer with any weight that vehicle is allowed to tow. There is an upper limit to the total but nothing in conventional cars gets to challenge that. There is a different set of rules for licences to use commercial vehicles , as opposed to "cars" where the max allowable loaded weight is over 3500 kgs.

We can tow anything up to 2.55 metres wide, not including minor items like door handles.
Length wise the rules are a bit "silly" in it is not the trailers LOA that matters, but the length of the "box" on the trailer, thus issues like a long or short "A" frame between the box and hitch is of no issue.
The "box" can be up to 7 metres maximum.
As I said its daft.

We are presently in sync with the EU re sizes except there are differences on where and how long before "Long vehicle" rear plates are needed to be displayed.

What are you talking about,this guy has a Canadian driving licence not a UK driving licence

 

[JTQ]

What are you talking about,this guy has a Canadian driving licence not a UK driving licence

The inferences we are to take from that are what?

 

[bertieboy1]

The inferences we are to take from that are what?

That the limitations on Canadian are different from UK licences

 

[otherclive]

That the limitations on Canadian are different from UK licences

Canadians can drive in U.K. on their own licence in equivalent areas.

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/can...o 12 months on their Canadian driving licence.

 

[RogerL]

Canadians can drive in U.K. on their own licence in equivalent areas.

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/canadian-driving-licence-in-uk.html?amp#:~:text=Canada is one of the UK’s designated countries,to 12 months on their Canadian driving licence.

Of course Canadians can drive in UK/EU - but what vehicles can they drive?

This document Driving-in-Britain-as-visitor-or-resident.pdf (licencebureau.co.uk) ought to cover it but doesn't!

 

[Blackwatch]

It sounds like I can drive in Europe up to 12 months with my Canadian license and that it equates to a B license? One site says that only EU residents can obtain a BE license.

 

[otherclive]

It sounds like I can drive in Europe up to 12 months with my Canadian license and that it equates to a B license? One site says that only EU residents can obtain a BE license.

After 1997 to gain BE required an additional test. Existing holders had grandfathers rights. The Government are due to rescind the BE test requirement to divert testers to testing HGV drivers due to our shortage. But HMG have just done a U turn and the issue is held.

 

[JTQ]

That the limitations on Canadian are different from UK licences

Yes, quite probably, but as requested can you highlight the inferences that brings to the subject?

Having stated "what am I talking about", can you detail what the Canadian licences actually void of any of the towing limitations that I had detailed, whilst driving here and in the EU?


Edit: if the OP's recent posting is true in not gaining our "E" element, that will be very limiting.

To the OP: It might be in your interest to contact our Caravan & motorhome Club , a site infrastructure that you would probably want to take out membership to use, asking them to detail any specific towing limits your particular Canadian licence may involve.

 

[otherclive]

Of course Canadians can drive in UK/EU - but what vehicles can they drive?

This document Driving-in-Britain-as-visitor-or-resident.pdf (licencebureau.co.uk) ought to cover it but doesn't!

That is precisely why I’m post #7 I said to the OP that he would have to establish areas of equivalence. Perhaps a question addressed to DVLA could be required.

 

[JTQ]

Perhaps a question addressed to DVLA could be required.

It is of course wider in that the DVLA only covers the UK element, not the various EU destinations.

I feel possibly its more fruitful to approach the principal camping clubs here and in Europe; the OP's requirements I would think can be far from unique.

 

[Blackwatch]

Thanks guys, I will try to find out if my Canadian license equates to a BE license.

Any thoughts on vehicle size? At what size does a vehicle become more of a nuisance navigating Europe?

 

[otherclive]

Thanks guys, I will try to find out if my Canadian license equates to a BE license.

Any thoughts on vehicle size? At what size does a vehicle become more of a nuisance navigating Europe?

50 tonne main battle tanks on transporters move around. 😂

Seriously though unless you are considering narrow lanes most outfits can move around okay. If you want to go into cities find a site outside and drive to a local public transport station or park and ride. Some campsites have limits but it’s normally stated on their websites. I’ve been in southern France and seen fifth wheelers on rural sites. It really all depends on what your outfit comprises and you would have to plan around it.

A16ft trailer is quite small even by our standards A Tundra could limit exploring back areas given its size, but eh farmers drive tractors in those areas

 

[JTQ]

Clive really nails it, size only affects your choices of where you can go and where you can pitch up. You basically live with its limitations, have to miss out some UK rural lanes and avoid centres of most EU medieval towns if too large.

Stating the obvious, the smaller the better at getting to those really remote locations, which for us is the essence of our touring. The honey pots will ensure the most punters can access there to spend money; but IMO these are not where you see and find the country you are over there to see. Much of Europe can be warm enough through the summer months to make "living" out of the van, the norm.

 

[Blackwatch]

50 tonne main battle tanks on transporters move around. 😂

Seriously though unless you are considering narrow lanes most outfits can move around okay. If you want to go into cities find a site outside and drive to a local public transport station or park and ride. Some campsites have limits but it’s normally stated on their websites. I’ve been in southern France and seen fifth wheelers on rural sites. It really all depends on what your outfit comprises and you would have to plan around it.

A16ft trailer is quite small even by our standards A Tundra could limit exploring back areas given its size, but eh farmers drive tractors in those areas

Hahaha, I have always wanted to retrace the Canadian Army's route from Juno beach to Germany, that would be very authentic. Might have to settle for a snorkel on the 4Runner and drive out of the channel without getting arrested!
Thanks for the help, I will look into the BE license a little more then perhaps plan B if that doesn't work.

 

[otherclive]

Hahaha, I have always wanted to retrace the Canadian Army's route from Juno beach to Germany, that would be very authentic. Might have to settle for a snorkel on the 4Runner and drive out of the channel without getting arrested!
Thanks for the help, I will look into the BE license a little more then perhaps plan B if that doesn't work.

The Tundra is probably larger than a Sherman tank. Good luck

 

[Blackwatch]

Clive really nails it, size only affects your choices of where you can go and where you can pitch up. You basically live with its limitations, have to miss out some UK rural lanes and avoid centres of most EU medieval towns if too large.

Stating the obvious, the smaller the better at getting to those really remote locations, which for us is the essence of our touring. The honey pots will ensure the most punters can access there to spend money; but IMO these are not where you see and find the country you are over there to see. Much of Europe can be warm enough through the summer months to make "living" out of the van, the norm.

I would be happy with a rooftop tent on the 4Runner or a small pop up camper on the back of a Tacoma but my partner likes her shower and bathroom.

One important question for you guys that I left out... what about height of vehicle. There are a couple of small hard shell campers that slide in the bed of smaller pick up trucks. Is there a normal max height to stay under around Europe when dealing with old bridges etc?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Blackwatch,

As you can see from the replies so far there is a considerable degree of uncertainty about the answer to your you question, and unless some one has actually gone through the process I suspect there is rather a lot of guess work in the answers.

With questions like this where there are legal implications it really does require some proper preparation on your part to establish from the authorities about what your visiting Canadian licence will allow you to do.

However there have been some important practical points raised. especially about the sensibility of trying to drive some of the bigger North American vehicle combinations around the Europe and the UK, we simply don't have the same amount of road space in many villages and camp sites.

I do wonder if you might consider renting a European rig for your trip.

Good luck

 

[otherclive]

I would be happy with a rooftop tent on the 4Runner or a small pop up camper on the back of a Tacoma but my partner likes her shower and bathroom.

One important question for you guys that I left out... what about height of vehicle. There are a couple of small hard shell campers that slide in the bed of smaller pick up trucks. Is there a normal max height to stay under around Europe when dealing with old bridges etc?

No significant height restrictions other than you could find car parks, beaches, nature reserves etc often have barriers in UK. For example my Subaru SJ Forester can access most places. Put a medium size roofbox on and it will not go under the barriers. 2.1 m often being the barrier height. Also older city Center multi storey car parks can be tight fir spaces. A Discovery or Range Rover can get in but tight into the spots.

 

[Blackwatch]

Hello Blackwatch,

As you can see from the replies so far there is a considerable degree of uncertainty about the answer to your you question, and unless some one has actually gone through the process I suspect there is rather a lot of guess work in the answers.

With questions like this where there are legal implications it really does require some proper preparation on your part to establish from the authorities about what your visiting Canadian licence will allow you to do.

However there have been some important practical points raised. especially about the sensibility of trying to drive some of the bigger North American vehicle combinations around the Europe and the UK, we simply don't have the same amount of road space in many villages and camp sites.

I do wonder if you might consider renting a European rig for your trip.

Good luck

I have looked into renting and it seems 6 months would cost about $30,000 Canadian. I live near a port with a direct route to Liverpool and another line with a route to Zeebrugge so shipping on a Ro-Ro is fairly cheap.