Vehicle weight

[Lutz]

hi, Lutz, it's a 2004 1.7CDTi with 5speed manual box, (with A/C) Enjoy model,

According to the information that I have at hand, the 1.7CDTi with a 5 speed manual box and air conditioning, built up to chassis number W0L0XCE7594000119 and fitted with a towbar with 50kg noseweight is rated at 1200kg if two radiator cooling fans are fitted (1000kg if only one fan). For a 55kg noseweight towbar, the 1200kg limit increases to 1300kg. For chassis numbers thereafter, all 5 speed 1.7CDTi's have a 1300kg towload limit rating.

 

[Surfer]

As stated I think we can all agree that the term MTPLM has no relevance in law and you cannot be prosecuted for exceeding the MTPLM for a trailer despite the plate being on the trailer. The plate is not a regulation type plate. However you can be prosecuted for exceeding the load rating on the tailer tyres or the axle weight rating.

Hello Surfer,

You are mistaken - we cannot all agree on your dismissal of MTPLM having legal relevance.

You have made the same assertion several times now and each time I have searched for any official document, or regulation that excludes MTPLM with no hint found.

But I do find it rather telling that several contributors other than me, have concurred with my view, and also your piece printed in PC mag on the subject also received an editorial comment about the unsoundness of your contention.

I will be happy to support your contention, but I do need verifiable proof of the fact, so please will you give the source of your information so we can all benefit from the increased weight we can now tow.

If you are unsure why do you bother to reply especially when you know I am correct. If you can show me where in law MTPLM is a legal term, I will apologise. I cannot post a link as there is no such legislation except in your imagination.
There is no law that states that you MUST have a weight plate on the trailer if it is under 2100kgs. Take time to read and understand the legislation instead of sprouting nonsense and trying to demean me!
If VOSA stop you that do not even botgher with looking at the plate as it is NOT a fixture on the caravan and can be removed quite easily. They will check the axle weight and tyre loading and that is how you will be prosecuted and not on your mythical MTPLM plate.

 

[Lutz]

If you are unsure why do you bother to reply especially when you know I am correct. If you can show me where in law MTPLM is a legal term, I will apologise.

UK law refers to MAM, maximum allowable mass, which is the same as MTPLM, and for that matter, GVW. It is just that the terminology used in UK law has never been brought into line with that used in EU Directives, although these directives are referred to in UK regulations. It does not mean that MAM under another name (MTPLM) is irrelevant.

I cannot post a link as there is no such legislation except in your imagination.
There is no law that states that you MUST have a weight plate on the trailer if it is under 2100kgs.

In the case of those trailers already covered by whole vehicle type approval, these must be fitted with a plate and the details required on the plate, including weight data, are also specified in the Construction and Use Regulations. I cannot comment on the requirements relating to older trailers.

Take time to read and understand the legislation instead of sprouting nonsense and trying to demean me!
If VOSA stop you that do not even botgher with looking at the plate as it is NOT a fixture on the caravan and can be removed quite easily. They will check the axle weight and tyre loading and that is how you will be prosecuted and not on your mythical MTPLM plate.

 

[Parksy]

If you are unsure why do you bother to reply especially when you know I am correct. If you can show me where in law MTPLM is a legal term, I will apologise. I cannot post a link as there is no such legislation except in your imagination.
There is no law that states that you MUST have a weight plate on the trailer if it is under 2100kgs. Take time to read and understand the legislation instead of sprouting nonsense and trying to demean me!
If VOSA stop you that do not even botgher with looking at the plate as it is NOT a fixture on the caravan and can be removed quite easily. They will check the axle weight and tyre loading and that is how you will be prosecuted and not on your mythical MTPLM plate.

The personal sniping has once again begun, it adds nothing to this forum and it really has to stop now once and for all.
I am always reluctant to start to issue warnings but any further attempts to reduce forum topics to a personal level will be removed without further notice.

I'm not quite sure why you think that:
'we can all agree that the term MTPLM has no relevance in law and you
cannot be prosecuted for exceeding the MTPLM for a trailer despite the
plate being on the trailer'

We most definitely can't agree Surfer, kindly let us know how you have arrived at the conclusion that we cannot be prosecuted for exceeding the MTPLM for a trailer. I doubt if many of us using this forum would care to take the chance and I'm sure that you will remember the editorial reply to your letter in the September issue of Practical Caravan magazine on the Caravan Chat page (p12)
The editorial reply agreed that it is a good idea to weigh your caravan in full touring mode on a weighbridge and also that an annual clear out of accumulated equipment is a good idea but there followed a sound piece of advice to you. It read:
'We would also advise against exceeding your caravans MPTLM despite remaining within the axle loading figure. What if you were stopped by police for a roadside check? It's likely they'll look at the MTPLM on the chassis plate, not at the maximum axle load. Would you want to spend an hour or two at the roadside arguing the letter of the law? Plus, in the event of an accident, if you are found to exceed your vans MTPLM, it could be just the excuse your insurer needs not to pay out on any claim you make.'
This is rather at odds with the 'advice', and I use the term advisedly, that you insist on continuing to add to various threads. I'd much rather follow the advice given by Practical Caravan magazine editorial staff thanks, and I will thank you to desist from continuing to post what are at best comments that could place those who decide to follow this miguided principle at risk of prosecution.

 

[peter57]

Empty post (likely not intentional - probably an Internet Explorer issue!)

 

[Parksy]

The most likely reason for the failure of your text to load correctly may be your choice of web browser Peter.
There are code omissions with some versions of Internet Explorer which lead to compatibility issues with this website.
For simple instructions on how to remedy this Click Here
An alternative solution would be to choose a different web browser such as Google Chrome or Firefox.

 

[Gafferbill]

There is no law that states that you MUST have a weight plate on the trailer if it is under 2100kgs. Take time to read and understand the legislation instead of sprouting nonsense and trying to demean me!
If VOSA stop you that do not even botgher with looking at the plate as it is NOT a fixture on the caravan and can be removed quite easily. They will check the axle weight and tyre loading and that is how you will be prosecuted and not on your mythical MTPLM plate.

............ the above is the view of someone who thinks he knows!

I would rather believe the National Trailer and Towing Association.............

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/identification_plates.aspx
To quote:
'1982 regulations demand that all trailers, including unbraked ones, must
be clearly marked with their maximum gross weight in kg. This may be
checked at any time by the police at a weighbridge. Since 1st January
1997, all unbraked trailer plates must show the year of manufacture.'

'To comply with the D.o.T. Code of Practice for the recall of
defective trailers less than 3500kg G.V.W. it is desirable that a
trailer should carry a manufacturer's plate clearly showing:

• Manufacturers name and address chassis or serial number and model number
• Number of axles
• Maximum weight per axle maximum
• Nose weight of coupling
• Maximum gross weight (G.V.W.)
• Date of manufacture

Who do you think is right?

 

[peter57]

Hi
Just downloaded Firefox hope this works better it appears to?
What I have been trying to comment on is the complexity of knowing. if you are legal or not, there appears a number of very knowing caravan users out there but it has totally confused me? I have tried to find a weigh bridge in north Staffordshire, wow the council no longer provide this service I have found a private weigh bridge 20 mile away £5 per weigh what SHOULD i HAVE WEIGHED, van weight fully loaded? train weight
Help
Peter

 

[peter57]

Duplicate Post

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Hi
Just downloaded Firefox hope this works better it appears to?
What I have been trying to comment on is the complexity of knowing. if you are legal or not, there appears a number of very knowing caravan users out there but it has totally confused me? I have tried to find a weigh bridge in north Staffordshire, wow the council no longer provide this service I have found a private weigh bridge 20 mile away £5 per weigh what SHOULD i HAVE WEIGHED, van weight fully loaded? train weight
Help
Peter

hi Peter, I have weighed our outfit a couple of times as the tow car has changed, but allways the same procedure,I take 3 weights
making sure of course that the van is fully loaded (as if going away with all the bits in it) all the passengers you are likely to take with all the stuff in the boot /roof rack and a full tank of fuel,
first just weigh the car with the van attached but with the van off the scales, (check the weight against the gross vehicle weight on the vin plate to see if it complies.
then weigh the whole lot together car and van this will establish the (gross train weight) check this against the vehicle vin plate to make sure is is under,
and lastly just the van again with it still attached to the car, this will weigh the vans axel tow load (tow load being the weight of the van minus noseweight as this is carried by the car and wieghed first with the tow vehicle,
if you are really picky you could do 4 weights,
1. car front axel 2. car on it's own (with van attached) 3. the whole lot 4. just the van (again with car attached)
but 3 should suffice
you could just take two car on it's own and van on it's own. this would give the cars GVW (minus noseweight) and the max weight of the van BUT you would have to do a noseweight check then and deduct it from the van (for tow load) and add it to the car for GVW adding the two weights would give the gross train weight.
hope this helps depends how many fivers you want to shell out

ours does 3 weights for a tenner.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Peter,

Colin has beaten me to it and i agree with his suggestion.

I have to agree wit you that the weights issue is already complex enough, without posts that add wrong information. That is unfortunately one of the pitfalls or public forums such where authors are not identified so their knowledge and authority cannot be verified by the reader. Sadly its up to the reader to establish right from wrong by whatever means they can.

 

[Martin24]

Should of gone to........................................
Land Rover

Simples!!

Whoops now I'll be in trouble again!!

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Should of gone to........................................
Land Rover

Simples!!

Whoops now I'll be in trouble again!!

Why Martin,?? it's only a suggestion, but I have one for you

even with a Land Rover it would still be a good idea to at least get a van weight, if only to establish the user payload left after filling the van with all the stuff that wasn't included in the vans MIRO,

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi, Lutz, it's a 2004 1.7CDTi with 5speed manual box, (with A/C) Enjoy model,

According to the information that I have at hand, the 1.7CDTi with a 5 speed manual box and air conditioning, built up to chassis number W0L0XCE7594000119 and fitted with a towbar with 50kg noseweight is rated at 1200kg if two radiator cooling fans are fitted (1000kg if only one fan). For a 55kg noseweight towbar, the 1200kg limit increases to 1300kg. For chassis numbers thereafter, all 5 speed 1.7CDTi's have a 1300kg towload limit rating.

hi Lutz,
just checked the vehicle VIN no, it is W0L0XCE7544XXXXX has 2 cooling radiators and 2 fans and has indeed a 50kg N/W towbar (stamped on the bar appproval plate) so it is 1200kg and the hand book is correct, thanks for the info,

 

[Surfer]

On more than one occasion i have verified the issue regarding MTPLM and the law, but it seems obvious that some people have no understanding of the legislation. Lutz is the only one that seems to post with common sense. I even posted a memo regarding the weight issue on another thread but this was overlooked as it seem preferable for someoen to argue the toss.
If you are ticketed for exceeding the exceeding the MTPLM and the words MTPLM were used, it wouls be laughed out of court by the prosecution, however bhy the same token if the ticket mentioned axle weights or tyre load you are in deep poo poo.
On many caravans the weight plate regarding MTPLM can easily be removed as it is not fixed and the MTPLM weight can be changed either up or down, however the actual trailer weight plate showing axle weights cannot as it is fixed. Caravan manufacturers often quote a lower MTPLM to make their caravans appeal to a wider audience.

 

[Martin24]

I do keep saying I will check the weight Colin and then never get around to it. Probably a head in the sand thing?! Will try harder when the new van arrives and I'm re loading everything. Am having an upgrade this time but not sure what it'll be to?? The defender is of course quite light really so may even be pushing over the 85% when we're fully loaded!! In trouble probably for just trying to lighten the mood again!!

 

[peter57]

Hi Colin
Thanks for your information I will take your post with me when I do the deed