Visitor tax

[RogerL]

When you live somewhere small and pretty Nimbyism becomes rife,sadly.

My parents lived at a North Devon Town for 40 years. We hated the tourists blocking up our Local and Car Parks.
Where I live now has half the population of Skye. Rebranded last year as part of the South Cotswolds finding a parking space at the weekends in the little High Street or car park is impossible..
You can walk into your own Local and find it full of strangers. But it’s their money going in the till , paying the wages , keeping the food and beer prices down , employing local people.
But as an active member of the local Council’s Neighbourhood Plan Group there is no financial question of doubt that Tourism brings a lot of wealth to a lot of local businesses and the community. We are actively stopping High Street shops becoming private dwelling houses. Once you lose your High street shop you have lost everything and then need transport to the next towns shops.

It’s a very hard call to ignore tourism. But then like where I am the Thames path walkers do keep a number of premises occupied plus cash into the till. If we lost them I suspect we would be the long term loser.

The figures I read for Skye Sam seem to celebrate the 650,000 tourists visiting each year bringing prosperity and employment for 25% of the local people. Incidentally why did they build the Skye Bridge😉

More to the point - why did they remove the toll for the Skye Bridge?

On a general note - excessive tourism spoils places - I'm fortunate to have explored the coast road round the North-West Highlands long before it was publicised as the NC500 attracting mass tourism, indeed long before a couple of bridges were built, neccessitating waiting for a tiny ferry which only took about 4 cars - I've been more recently and the area has lost it's soul but we still have our memories.

 

[Dustydog]

More to the point - why did they remove the toll for the Skye Bridge?

On a general note - excessive tourism spoils places - I'm fortunate to have explored the coast road round the North-West Highlands long before it was publicised as the NC500 attracting mass tourism, indeed long before a couple of bridges were built, neccessitating waiting for a tiny ferry which only took about 4 cars - I've been more recently and the area has lost it's soul but we still have our memories.

Now you’ve lit the Blue touch paper! Indulge me!
1973/74 were my first Scottish trips with a half decent frame tent and Austin A35 van.
Ballachullish Ferry. The signs by the roadside told you the waiting time. After a long drive through Glencoe you had reached this mystical sea going passage 😜

We then enjoyed the infamous Skye Ferry. They always had a lonely Piper playing the usually stuff, sooo romantic. Then you hit the Kylesku ferry heading to Scourie.

It’s all so different now. Even the Scourie Hotel is NOT open to the Public or Locals. However the Scourie Caravan Park has a half decent restaurant come Bar.
Frankly, the magic has gone and for us the ghost is laid to rest😢

 

[RogerL]

Now you’ve lit the Blue touch paper! Indulge me!
1973/74 were my first Scottish trips with a half decent frame tent and Austin A35 van.
Ballachullish Ferry. The signs by the roadside told you the waiting time. After a long drive through Glencoe you had reached this mystical sea going passage 😜

We then enjoyed the infamous Skye Ferry. They always had a lonely Piper playing the usually stuff, sooo romantic. Then you hit the Kylesku ferry heading to Scourie.

It’s all so different now. Even the Scourie Hotel is NOT open to the Public or Locals. However the Scourie Caravan Park has a half decent restaurant come Bar.
Frankly, the magic has gone and for us the ghost is laid to rest😢

In 1971 I moved up to Peterhead, Aberdeenshire with my first wife when my career at Rolls-Royce Motors was abruptly cut short as their parent company had gone bust - in 1972 my brother-in-law came up to join us for the summer vacation from university and the 3 of us, plus a labrador went on a similar trip wild camping up the West Coast and around the North-West Highlands - very cosy in a little 3-man tent!

We've been back with the caravan most years since 1999 - in 2003 we toured what became the NC500 and again in 2021 as the NC500 and everything was so different.

EU money was gradually getting rid of the single track roads, but that's dried up now so stil a bit of it left - I can understand the locals wanting the rest widened to 2 lanes but it'll just make the tourist problem even worse.

 

[Beardy]

Ok, this may make the law of supply and demand cause prices to rise but that's what happens in a free market.

Free market - 'an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.'

Sorry Sam, but you are suggesting that competition should be restricted by limiting the number of businesses able to compete, the exact opposite of a free market.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I would have thought that if you are buying goods i.e. food, fuel, etc in an area a lot of that money will revolve around the local economy? Whatever you spend in an area some of it goes towards paying the employee their wages which is then probably spent in the area.

Yes, but there's more to it than that.

The influx of tourists puts a strain upon the services in the area. Improving the services to accommodate a higher population at times comes out of taxes, council or income, and investment by private industries. These taxes are collected by central governments. Private investment needs a business case to justify expenditure.

A tourist paying Vat on a meal out doesn't directly support local infrastructure in investment.

Tourism is a popular in investment at the moment and this is affecting communities like ours whereby less and less housing is available to buy to live in. What housing that comes on the market is becoming more and more expensive and out of reach of many local people.

It's a complex system.

 

[Dustydog]

I think we all tread a narrow path fraught with danger😉
Six months ago this newspaper article appeared.

Probably not as bad as St Ives Cornwall .The main offenders are named as Retirees, ABnB, and second holiday homes.
Simple answer, ban all three and normal service will be resumed😎

Labels prove nothing. It shouldn’t be beyond Holyrood and the Local Authority to scrap AbnBs, and second holiday homes .
Retirees🙉🙀

 

[otherclive]

I think we all tread a narrow path fraught with danger😉
Six months ago this newspaper article appeared.

Probably not as bad as St Ives Cornwall .The main offenders are named as Retirees, ABnB, and second holiday homes.
Simple answer, ban all three and normal service will be resumed😎

Labels prove nothing. It shouldn’t be beyond Holyrood and the Local Authority to scrap AbnBs, and second holiday homes .
Retirees🙉🙀

My father retired from Leicester to Lynton and set up a B&B whilst also working in the local economy, and participating in community activities. But whilst he took up a local house in Lynton he released a house in Leicester for someone else to live in. So in the greater scheme of things there was a sort of balance.

 

[Dustydog]

My father retired from Leicester to Lynton and set up a B&B whilst also working in the local economy, and participating in community activities. But whilst he took up a local house in Lynton he released a house in Leicester for someone else to live in. So in the greater scheme of things there was a sort of balance.

Amazing! Do you recall The Greenhouse Restaurant and Bakery. Alford House and Choughs Nest?

 

[otherclive]

Amazing! Do you recall The Greenhouse Restaurant and Bakery. Alford House and Choughs Nest?

Yes as we visited him sometimes. But after five years he decided to return to Leicester as he found Lynton too remote in winter and he was going through a divorce. But a year later he bought a static at Beggars Roost with uninterrupted views of the Channel to Wales and he and his partner tended to move in from April to November, only venturing away to go abroad on holidays. Finally sold it when age took its toll at around late 80s. 👍

 

[Dustydog]

Yes as we visited him sometimes. But after five years he decided to return to Leicester as he found Lynton too remote in winter and he was going through a divorce. But a year later he bought a static at Beggars Roost with uninterrupted views of the Channel to Wales and he and his partner tended to move in from April to November, only venturing away to go abroad on holidays. Finally sold it when age took its toll at around late 80s. 👍

Cousins and uncles had a good 15 years there. One cousin still lives there!

 

[Sam Vimes]

Free market - 'an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.'

Sorry Sam, but you are suggesting that competition should be restricted by limiting the number of businesses able to compete, the exact opposite of a free market.

Not exactly.

The basis of a free market is one of supply and demand. This is the basis I meant when referring to pricing.

There are many reasons in a free market economy when controls are needed but this should be minimal. Licensing and Planning Permission to name just two aspects.

 

[otherclive]

Todays headlines wrt Spain planning to tax non EU citizens 100% when buying residential property.

I’m told that Greenland still welcomes tourists 😂

 

[JTQ]

Whilst an uncomfortable fact to take onboard doesn't it tend to need "locals" to sell for the most they can get, for local properties to become too expensive for local wage earners?

So, blaming the second home buyers rather than the locals themselves, for pricing properties out of the local market seems misplaced, if politically very convenient.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Whilst an uncomfortable fact to take onboard doesn't it tend to need "locals" to sell for the most they can get, for local properties to become too expensive for local wage earners?

So, blaming the second home buyers rather than the locals themselves, for pricing properties out of the local market seems misplaced, if politically very convenient.

Its true and there are some that are very vocal about the impact of tourism yet at the same time will sell their house or building plot at the best price they can get. But the earlier threads were about keeping income on Skye for example and second home buyers and holiday homes don't contribute as much as perhaps they should because the bulk of the income goes off island.

Whatever the price its also reducing the availability of homes for people to live in and keep our community alive.

 

[RogerL]

Whilst an uncomfortable fact to take onboard doesn't it tend to need "locals" to sell for the most they can get, for local properties to become too expensive for local wage earners?

So, blaming the second home buyers rather than the locals themselves, for pricing properties out of the local market seems misplaced, if politically very convenient.

How can you say that sellers are more responsible for bloated house prices than buyers? The price of a house is whatever the buyer and seller agree is afair price, so both must be equally to blame.

 

[Dustydog]

How can you say that sellers are more responsible for bloated house prices than buyers? The price of a house is whatever the buyer and seller agree is afair price, so both must be equally to blame.

But it seems the Skye Locals are very anti second home buyers. So why do the Locals sell to them at clearly prices more than a local can afford?
They can’t have it both ways🙀

 

[JTQ]

But it seems the Skye Locals are very anti second home buyers. So why do the Locals sell to them at clearly prices more than a local can afford?
They can’t have it both ways🙀

Because "locals" come in two flavours, one flavour more than prepared to jump on the gravy train at the expense of their community in general?
As I said, an uncomfortable fact.

 

[Sam Vimes]

When selling a house or plot it, it's future use may not be known.

As I may have mentioned previously several homes that were intended to be permanent dwellings immediately became holiday homes or second homes, on completion.

 

[otherclive]

But it seems the Skye Locals are very anti second home buyers. So why do the Locals sell to them at clearly prices more than a local can afford?
They can’t have it both ways🙀

So with all these locals selling their properties where do they go to live? Presumably building new in Skye might be an option subject to planning, or are they people who have inherited a property or moving away from Skye for some reason or other. It’s not a simple binary topic, but at the base is the fact that affordable houses and accommodation for locals in many areas is in desperately short supply. As a nation we have failed to build or renovate sufficient properties to meet demand, and the big builders control the supply very tightly.

 

[Sam Vimes]

It's a mix of reasons.

Our community has an elderly population. As some pass away, family members sell the house. Others have large plots which they can split up and sell. Some of those folks don't necessarily live on Skye.

Some of our friends have moved away for a variety of reasons. Some folks do find houses or plots and come here to live. Building a house is getting harder as building costs have rocketed.

I tried years back to get people interested in building more affordable housing on our community. It was a struggle and eventually went no where. There was no support from the Highland Council.