Voice of the Customer

[AndrewAventura]

It's good design practice to try and capture the thoughts and wishes of your customers, really the best way to develop your design.
However, even though caravan manufacturers like to bring out revised models every year, it seems really difficult to find a channel for expressing customer wishes and suggestions. Obviously there's a huge ongoing issue and views expressed by customers about quality and durability, set against a competing demand for low weight and lowest price. I suspect that any time the manufacturer opens up to some sort of 'voice of the customer' process any of the useful ideas they'd like to hear get drowned out by noisy complaints.
Who do the designers talk to to get their inputs?
I've got a 2024 Swift van, like it a lot. I'd enjoy contributing my design suggestions, but haven't managed to find a channel through which to do that. Some of my thoughts (though brilliant!) are utterly model specific details. But, more generally, why are new caravans in 2026 still being shipped with TV aerials and associated co-ax wiring etc? Surely most people now get their entertainment from their personal devices, by streaming or previous download, whatever. Rather than the annoying radio that comes on every time you switch on the electrics, please just provide a bluetooth speaker set (with effective switching between sources, instead of the easily confused radio BT input). That example is both a cost saving and an improvement. So's my next - please don't bother with the carpets, scatter cushions or curtains. We've put all those in a plastic bag somewhere and prefer to choose and fit our own. The blinds are vastly more practical than the curtains anyway.

 

[Woodentop]

I would have to disagree in part, although the fundamental comment about lack of a feedback loop to the designers is totally true.
Manufacturers are no longer fitting radios/CD players in caravans because they cannot get them. Modern cars now have 'Infotainment' units (how I HATE that name!) that provide the radio function and have Bluetooth so you can feed your 'own' music from your smartphone, ergo the market for car radio (etc) units has died and there is no alternative. Similarly the CD market has been overrun by mp3 sources and CDs are almost dead now as well (charity shops selling five for £1?)* As for TVs - I'm sorry but whilst many people in the public eye (and living with the M25) seem to believe the lie that everyone now uses streaming one has to ask where they can get the feed from on remote caravan sites (even not so remote as well!) In my experience there are few sites where you cannot get a TV signal** but on those that cannot the site owner often installs an off-air distribution system which, once installed and paid for, has almost zero on-cost against the persistent cost of accessing streaming. I do agree however about the expensive BT speakers supplied by some manufacturers being unsuitable for the job where they have done deals to provide 'posh' units where more simple units are far more appropriate and much cheaper - and why do such units of whatever source have to be so bass heavy in there reproduction and have flashing lights all over the place?
Top all this off by (as reported on the front page of the Sunday Telegraph today) the fact that it is suggested that HMG are proposing to bring back the Radio Licence? Given (I suggest) that many smartphones out there still have a FM radio inside how could they police and charge for such?
Overall it beggars belief methinks.
D'oh!

*If someone who listens to music on low rate mp3 and you subject them to the sound quality produced by an even half decent domestic stereo system, the look of amazement on the listener's face is a picture to behold.
** I speak as a retired mobile radio and (latterly) TV and radio broadcast transmitter engineer.

 

[JTQ]

I suspect that any time the manufacturer opens up to some sort of 'voice of the customer' process any of the useful ideas they'd like to hear get drowned out by noisy complaints.

Historically that was exactly the case where makers, including Swift used to have an official presence on these types of forums. Some people just chose to use that as a kicking board with relentless knocking of them, that I assume they saw this well meaning involvement more damaging publicity that serving any useful purpose.

Re TV, not sure most buyer stream rather than view live TV? Possibly it is a trend but with a very significant part of the sales market being to an older generation I suspect many do watch some live programmes, and retrospective fitting of a decent TV aerial would be something that could be met with customer reticence on a new shiny under warranty van.

With Hymer, I was even 19 years back given the choice of what extras I wanted, so I suspect its buying UK vans and wanting off the peg short deliveries where the lack of choice comes. Hymer I suspect might still do but now being American owned, probably will not for long.
And 35 years ago the same with buying a Castleton and with Gobur even before that, we could and did have these built with the options we chose. These more specialist builders we once had in the UK that targeted customers individual choices also made products that were inevitably too expensive for enough clients, therefore we here are left with our mass market builders, IMO a real shame though understandable enough.

 

[birdman101]

Our Radio no longer comes on every time we switch electric on as I have cut the feed and installed a switch at the side of the Radio. If needed just use the switch fist to give supply. Actually we have never used our Radio as we always take our Alexa with us,and then we can switch it on or off whilst still lying in bed, There was a few years ago an opportunity for people to design a Caravan, and if I remember the winning entry actually won a Caravan.

 

[Dustydog]

Today design and pretty looks seem to have taken precedence over functionality.
We used to change caravans every four years. Can’t believe we have had the present one since 2009! Still ticks all the boxes. Must have repaired or changed most things but better the devil you know.

I have said before caravan design is about making small spaces big, maximise cubic capacity. So why stick a circular shower in a rectangular space wasting space?

I’m with Woodentop regarding TVs .We have streamed but it’s dependent on your phone signal . Site wifi rarely supports streaming. We still use terrestrial and of course the faithful sky box and dish. Even that isn’t bullet proof.

 

[Mel]

You cannot please all of the people all of the time.
However, I agree that more consumer involvement and feedback in Caravan design would be a great advantage. Whilst features that may come under the heading Personal preference would be contentious; other features that come under the heading Downright stupid ( such as the ridiculous space wasting configuration of the cupboards on my Alpine 2 or the rows of holes in the blinds) could be avoided.
Mel

 

[RogerL]

I think lack of customer involvement is just symptomatic of the general malaise within the caravan industry but I think other changes are higher priority.

1) Abandon the concept of annual model changes - copy the car industry where a model lasts 7-8 years with just a facelift after 3-4 years. It's the constant change that drives the present unreliability.

2) Make designers use their caravans, initially in a corner of their factory to preserve their secrecy but than at a selection of sites around the country.

3) Fix the persistent damp / water ingress issues which plague the industry.

 

[otherclive]

When I bought my 2005 Bailey Series 5 I was invited to a day at Bailey to see the manufacture of caravans, and it also included a session giving feedback on my experience using the newly designed S5 caravan. We found only a few pretty minor things that we felt could be improved. Overall we had it nine years and visited many remote parts of UK, plus extensive holidays to France. It suffered cracks on the front roof and rear roof joints caused by a production drop off, but they were picked up early in its life, first and second year services, and resolved easily under warranty, but they did not lead to water ingress. In fact the only bit of damp was after 9 years caused by a seal degradation above the front left hand window. AWS fixed it at around £250. Next owner got several good years of use out of it, he was service manager of my cars dealership.

So it can be done.

 

[PTA]

Historically that was exactly the case where makers, including Swift used to have an official presence on these types of forums. Some people just chose to use that as a kicking board with relentless knocking of them, that I assume they saw this well meaning involvement more damaging publicity that serving any useful purpose.

Re TV, not sure most buyer stream rather than view live TV? Possibly it is a trend but with a very significant part of the sales market being to an older generation I suspect many do watch some live programmes, and retrospective fitting of a decent TV aerial would be something that could be met with customer reticence on a new shiny under warranty van.

With Hymer, I was even 19 years back given the choice of what extras I wanted, so I suspect its buying UK vans and wanting off the peg short deliveries where the lack of choice comes. Hymer I suspect might still do but now being American owned, probably will not for long.
And 35 years ago the same with buying a Castleton and with Gobur even before that, we could and did have these built with the options we chose. These more specialist builders we once had in the UK that targeted customers individual choices also made products that were inevitably too expensive for enough clients, therefore we here are left with our mass market builders, IMO a real shame though understandable enough.

I remember the Swift forum and found it very helpful. Unfortunately it was spoilt by a few arrogant "know alls" who found it necessary to insult and patronise newcomers who, quite justifiably, asked basic questions. I found that quite embarrassing and totally unhelpful. it all became extremely bad tempered and, as a result, Swift pulled it.
Very sad.

 

[otherclive]

I remember the Swift forum and found it very helpful. Unfortunately it was spoilt by a few arrogant "know alls" who found it necessary to insult and patronise newcomers who, quite justifiably, asked basic questions. I found that quite embarrassing and totally unhelpful. it all became extremely bad tempered and, as a result, Swift pulled it.
Very sad.

A pity that Swift did not move the troublemakers on to pastures new.

 

[borderbilly]

A pity that Swift did not move the troublemakers on to pastures new.

Maybe they did, maybe on here 😀

 

[Woodentop]

#4 above: using Alexa needs a good/stable broadband feed albeit at rather lower speed than TV. Nonetheless 128K (the usual default rate for mp3) is required (160K if you are listening to Classic, and 192K if you listen to BBC R3 outside rush hours) and that has to come from somewhere. Technically this is also streaming although not in the more accepted version used for TV/films etc. which needs around 4Mb for SD TV and about 18Mb for HD.

#5 above: satellite in the UK is pretty universal and if you have an app such as Satellite Director you can place your dish usually avoiding trees and other articles. The downside is that the biggest user by far for the UK is Sky, and they are in the process of moving users to fibre/line feed and off satellite. When that happens it is unlikely that Freesat will be able to stand the costs incurred alone so it will either become chargeable or die (which may still do if no longer free.)

 

[Sam Vimes]

The sentiments expressed here equally apply to many other consumer or even professional grade products.

Stop adding stuff we don't want but fix the issues we all have.