Volvo XC60

[AlexandriaUK]

Good day all, as a new member with only one post under there belt and looking for tech details, so my car is a Volvo XC60 R Design 2.4 litre diesel automatic, it pulled my old caravan as though I had no weight on the tow ball, last week I brought a newer van, well newer for me, went from 1984 to 1997/8 just waiting to ring and register her with cris number to get exact date, she towed fine once tyres were inflated but when I did a towsure check it said caravan was OK on everything but achievable nose weight came out at 6%can anyone possibly shed some light on what it means, does it mean that the kg weight has to be lower.
Thank you all for reading and maybe giving me a clue, happy and warm caravanning

 

[ProfJohnL]

Good day all, as a new member with only one post under there belt and looking for tech details, so my car is a Volvo XC60 R Design 2.4 litre diesel automatic, it pulled my old caravan as though I had no weight on the tow ball, last week I brought a newer van, well newer for me, went from 1984 to 1997/8 just waiting to ring and register her with cris number to get exact date, she towed fine once tyres were inflated but when I did a towsure check it said caravan was OK on everything but achievable nose weight came out at 6%can anyone possibly shed some light on what it means, does it mean that the kg weight has to be lower.
Thank you all for reading and maybe giving me a clue, happy and warm caravanning

Hello Alexandria,
I cannot decipher the 'Towsure ' message, without know exactly what else was mentioned.
From a practical point of view, You have towed teh caravan and been happy with the results, and provided you are also happy it is a legal match ( driving licence s and towed weight limits etc) then it frankly doesn't matter what Towsure or any one else thinks about your outfit based only on paper specifications.

The industry guidance is that the practical nose load should most likely be between 5 and 7% of the caravans MTPLM. As I hope you realise the actual nose load is actually determined by the way you load the caravan, and you move loaded items around inside the caravan to trim to your chosen nose load. Consequently no one can predict your actual nose load, and of course it can change from trip to trip.

I do not know if Towsure is suggesting you cant achieve 6% or if 6% is not suitable - really unclear. If you could post the whole Towsure response we might be better able to unravel the mystery.

But another important issue to bear in mind is that (and this might be a racey) none of the matching services can be relied on to be 100% correct. The data they use can be incomplete or indeed inaccurate, so unless the details they have about your car and caravan are exactly the same, their outputs cannot be considered as a fair guide to your outfit. Even the level of trim can make a difference in some cases.

 

[AlexandriaUK]

Hi thanks for replying so quickly, I will go off and see if I can copy the info from the towsafe

 

[AlexandriaUK]

THIS WEBSITE REQUIRES YOU ENABLE JAVASCRIPT ON YOUR BROWSER. THANK YOU
Car details:
Volvo Xc60 D4 [190] R Design Lux Nav 5dr
Awd Geartronic 4wd Leisure Vehicle
2015 - 2017
Nose Weight (kg) 90
Kerb Weight (kg) 1879
Unbraked Maximum Tow (kg) 750
Maximum Tow (kg) 2000
Max Tow at GTW (kg) 2000
Gross Weight (kg) 2505
Train Weight (kg) 4505
Caravan details:
Elddis 1997
Ex300 Typhoon
Unladen Weight (kg) 980
Max Weight (MTPLM) (kg) 1250
User Payload(kg) 270
Hitch Limit (kg) 75
Target Noseweight range (kg)
(5-7% of MTPLM) 62 - 88
Overall Width (mm) 2184
Internal Length (mm) 5147
Shipping Length (mm) 6600
Headroom (mm) 1867
Height(mm) 2580
Produced for: Sandra Stevens Date: 28/11/2017 19:47:15
VIN Plate / MTPLM 62.5%
This calculation is based on the gross train weight (the maximum permitted
combined weight of the car and the caravan). When towing with your vehicle at
GVW and Caravan at MTPLM, if this match is above 100% you are breaking the
law!
Kerb / MTPLM 66.5% The industry recommends this figure is not above 85% for beginners; however
this is not a legal requirement. A match over 100% may invalidate your insurance
Max Tow / MTPLM 62.5%
Do not take Max Tow literally as it is a only a test of traction on a 1:8 hill start , and
not the overall the ability of the car to tow at normal road speeds. If this figure is
over 100% you could be in breach of your car's warranty and may be breaking the
law!
Achievable Noseweight 6%
Although the towcar has a potential noseweight of 90kg, that is within or greater
than the target noseweight (62 - 88kg), however the actual hitch limit of the
caravan is only 75kg. This combination is therefore constrained by the hitch limit
set by the caravan manufacturer. Always check the noseweight of your
caravan/payload before purchase and when loading.
Additional notes * Towing Experience - Experienced: Calculated at a match Braked Percentage of 100% of the vehicle's Kerb
Weight *
Warnings Any combinaton that exceeds the defined hitch limit for the caravan would potentially require back loading to bring
within the overrun brakes working limit
Group B+E driving licence is required for this combination if you passed your driving test on or after the 1st January
1997, as the combined Maximum Authorised Masses (Gross Vehicle Weight + MTPLM of Caravan) is Greater than
3500kg
Volvo only supply a minimum kerb weight for this vehicle. Your vehicle may be heavier than this minimum and
therefore more capable than the kerb weight calculation suggests. If in doubt check your handbook / v5 document
for the exact kerbweight.
Disclaimer The information supplied herewith is provided and intended as a guide only. All data is gathered from sources
accepted as accurate at the time and all outfit matching equations are based upon the 'Towing Code Guidelines'. All
data provided within the Towsafe program refers to manufacturers standard production vehicles for sale within the
UK and therefore excludes vehicles imported from any other country. Vehicles which have been modified in any
way e.g. suspension or any form of spring assistance are also not covered.
Outfit Match Report. Caution: Hitch limit issue

So that's what I got, if it makes any sense to you, I am a seasoned Caravan tower and always had a ford Mondeo estate to tow with but after changing to Volvo and now newer van I thought I check it out, just to confuse me LOL

 

[otherclive]

In my recent post on Towing a Bucaneer I explained that I had an Amber warning from one matching site as my noseweight (max for Car 80kg) was less than 7% of the Caravans MTPLM. Not much I could do as the vans weight is what it is and the cars towball limit is what it is. Your limit seems to be the caravan hitch limit if 75 kg. However I don’t load my noseweight to the max I keep it 5kg less than max so I am at just less than 6%. But the van tows very well and gives me no cause for concern in winds, on motorways etc. But I’ve alaways been careful how I load the van iaw general guidleines. And the car Caravan weight ratio is well below 85% guidance. So as in many things in life it’s not always possible to get all boxes ticked but by a combination of good practice you can achieve a well balanced outfit.

 

[AlexandriaUK]

I'm glad you said that as that does tend to be my thoughts, last year when all loaded I got my partner to lift caravan up as he has a good idea of weights being a lifter, he couldn't lift it and after a couple of attempts we decided there was a problem with my packing instructions so went to find the bathroom scales, no chance, then my neighbour came out and suggested we raise the rear legs, oops how daft am I LOL thanks again for input

 

[AlexandriaUK]

Sorry I seem to have double posted so the only way I could delete it was by deleting the text and replacing it with waffle LOL

 

[Hutch]

I wouldn't worry about double posting , the forum is to help each other, looks like if you keep the "Dreaded"nose weight to 70 to 75 kg then your fine and if the van tows nice then its Ok .

 

[AlexandriaUK]

Thanks, that's as heavy as iv ever had a nose weight, takes a bit of wiggling but I don't move anything once I get a good ratio and sad as it sounds I take a photo and write it all down for next jointly.
At least that way I don't have to worry about it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Again Alexandria,

Thank you for the the 'Towsure' output detail.

The bit that seems to be causing some minor concern is this:

"Achievable Noseweight 6%
Although the towcar has a potential noseweight of 90kg, that is within or greater than the target noseweight (62 - 88kg), however the actual hitch limit of the caravan is only 75kg. This combination is therefore constrained by the hitch limit set by the caravan manufacturer. Always check the noseweight of your caravan/payload before purchase and when loading."

First let me reaffirm providing you are not currently over loading the hitch there is nothing to be unduly concerned about, provide the van is towing well.

The possible issue seems to be the Towsure data has the caravan manufacture setting a maximum permitted nose load of only 75kg. This is unusually low, as most caravan chassis are usually rated for a maximum nose load of 100kg - You should find the maximum permitted nose load (S Value) on the caravan chassis data plate, usually near or on the hitch assembly.

The danger is, Firtsly it is technically illegal to exceed a nose load limit (though some will tell you the authorities never check nose load) so it is important that you do ensure you keep the static nose load less than lowest limit of either the trailer (75kg?) or the car manufacturer.

Why "static"? well its the only way you can actually measure the nose load when the outfit is stationary. In practice when you tow the vibrations and changes of direction will cause the dynamic load to be several times bigger than the static loads, but this will have been fully taken into account by the car and caravan manufacturers in their design and testing stages. Just a note it is perfectly safe to leave the caravan hitched to the car at home or at the services and move around inside the caravan fixing a drink or a meal.

Mechanically if it is over loaded when towing, it may prevent the trailer brakes from operating. It could also over stress some of the caravans components causing damage to either the car or caravan.

Measuring nose load is extra critical, if you are working close to its permitted limits, and measuring it incorrectly will give you a false reading. Something that is not always obvious is if caravan hitch is measured at the wrong height it will give wrong nose load readings, which is why the regulations require the nose load to be measured with the trailer hitch at the same height was when it is coupled to the tow vehicle, and that should be between 350 and 420mm from the ground to the centre of the tow ball

Unless you have access to a weighbridge that can measure individual axle loads, the only practical way to measure with a reasonable degree of accuracy and certainty is as follows:

You will need a piece of horizontal (no slopes of any kind), a set of bathroom scales, the caravan's portable step, some magazines to pack under the scales, and a poly bag to put over the caravan hitch to protect the scales from grease.

Load the car and caravan as if you are about to set off on your journey will all luggage and people. Pull forward on to a piece of horizontal ground, and measure the height of the underside of the coupled tow hitch from the ground.

Chock the caravan wheels, DO not use the caravans hand brake and uncouple it from the car.

Put the scales on the step and pack them up using the magazines so the top of the scales is the same as the measured height of the hitch. Put the bag over the hitch, and lower it onto the scales making sure that none of the caravans steadies or the jockey wheel are in contact with the ground.

The displayed reading will be the nose load.

Sadly No one, including your weightlifting partner, can be consistently accurate about assessing the weight of an object just by lifting it, so don't chance it.

 

[otherclive]

I think the OP did say that she “went to the bathroom scales”. Hopefully to measure the noseweight and not her partner But do agree that 75 kg for the caravans noseweight hitch limit does look low.

 

[AlexandriaUK]

Thanks for information, yes that's exactly how we used to do a weigh in until about 6+ years ago when we brought a milenco nose weight gauge, I think it was the best £15 ish spent for peace of mind, as I said once I have loaded van the first time in this one it will be all documented and photographed, my partner says I'm OCD and anal retentive, who me, don't think so much LOL I have been towing for um many years and was HGV class 1 for many years, yes there are lots of female's out there now doing the job but when I started there were only a few of us. So I'm well happy towing just changing car and van at nearly the same time was something I have never done before, I will say that in my humble opinion that just because it tows well doesn't always mean a good set up as you will all know, my friend brought a van, never towed in her life and I told her to wait and I would go over and help her set it up, she didn't wait and set off the next morning, oops, she tipped it over on the A46 slip road, no seaside for her, luckily it tipped there because she had he children and dogs in the car, they said the caravan was massively overloaded, as you guessed she didn't buy another, it was a long while ago but I always remember how frightened the children were, it doesn't take much to lose it.
I'm pleased they have changed the law regarding permitted towing.

 

[AlexandriaUK]

I agree, it does seem a low nose weight, my other set up was 85kg maybe its the trailer configuration that's lowering it, its a big van as well so I think maybe the central area is quite heavy but wouldn't that mean you need more nose weight to compensate.
Think I will put in my Mondeo and see what that comes out at.

I'm not worried at all, just curious

 

[otherclive]

I agree, it does seem a low nose weight, my other set up was 85kg maybe its the trailer configuration that's lowering it, its a big van as well so I think maybe the central area is quite heavy but wouldn't that mean you need more nose weight to compensate.
Think I will put in my Mondeo and see what that comes out at.

I'm not worried at all, just curious

I was referring to the caravans own makers weight limit for its A frame hitch. At 75 kg it seems low. But as Prof John described you should be able to ascertain it from the affixed plate. Cheers

 

[AlexandriaUK]

Will check it out when I get home for sure

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks for information, yes that's exactly how we used to do a weigh in until about 6+ years ago when we brought a milenco nose weight gauge, I think it was the best £15 ish spent for peace of mind...

I am sorry but I have to register a point with you. I disagree with you regarding the spring load nose load measurement devices. It does not give me any peace of mind:-

I made the point that the regulations measure nose load at the same height as the when towing, the reason for that is becasue if you tip a caravan to any other angle than when its being towed, the value of the measured nose load will change. So it is vitally important to measure the nose load at the same hitch height as when it is being towed. Obviously the height of the car tow hitch will vary depending on how much load is applied to the springs, which is why the car and caravan need to be loaded as if ready to tow.

As far as I am aware none of the spring loaded measurement gauges allow you to set the height at which it settles, so unless by chance it does settle at the same height as the loaded tow ball, it wont give you the correct official nose load reading.

Secondly the accuracy of these gauges has been shown to be wildly inconsistent with up to a 30kg error in some cases.

Thirdly the ability of some of these gauges to give the same repeat measurement is also highly variable. +/- 10kg is not uncommon.

Fourthly even though some nose load manufactures claim their product is manufactured in accordance with a certain standard and even calibrated, All this tells you is it should produce a consistent reading, but it still does not allow you to set the settling height which is a key component of the measurment process. The scale graduations are too coarse and there is too much parallax error for the reading to be to be of adequate quality.

hence my bathroom scales system which is a more consistent method.

 

[AlexandriaUK]

The one I brought advised a height to place gauge, this requires it to be on a block same as scales, trouble with all of them there's going to be discrepancies, best way is to load up prior to trip and take it to a certified weigh bridge and pay but I'm happy that I take all the nescassary precautions to make sure we are as safe as possible when we travel with a rig on.
My scales are not great anyway, they always say I weigh more than I do, really

 

[AlexandriaUK]

Another techy question, do you know how to post pictures, or is it not possible on phone.

 

[zoaman]

Another techy question, do you know how to post pictures, or is it not possible on phone.

Just one other point ,but also the towbar max rating.but i would expect it to be higher than your cars 90kg.but not always the case.
Also if the car is level, then there is a guidence for towball hieghts of between 380 and 450mm.but this may go lower as per loading of car.(does your car have self leveling ? some top end volvos as your is do)so as said it better to measure the hitch height when loaded to give a excact measurment when testing the nose weight.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Another techy question, do you know how to post pictures, or is it not possible on phone.

Just one other point ,but also the towbar max rating.but i would expect it to be higher than your cars 90kg.but not always the case.
Also if the car is level, then there is a guidence for towball hieghts of between 380 and 450mm.but this may go lower as per loading of car.(does your car have self leveling ? some top end volvos as your is do)so as said it better to measure the hitch height when loaded to give a excact measurment when testing the nose weight.

Hello Zoaman,

I'm sorry but you have your facts slightly awry regarding the height of the loaded towball.

Tow balls on domestic cars fall under the control of DIRECTIVE 94/20/EC(1994), which only requires the loaded coupled height to be between 350 and 420mm vertically from the ground to the geometric centre of the ball. There is no requirement for the car to be Level when loaded and in reality that would be nigh on impossible to achieve. Only that these measurement must be made on level ground, which is for two reasons, the first is that if the road surface has any incline, it will affect the nose load the trailer produces and that in turn will affect the amount of movement the cars suspension will absorb, and secondly it is essentially much safer to make these measurements on level ground as there will be no tendency for the unbraked outfit to roll away.

 

[AlexandriaUK]

I agree regarding vechile and trailer being level when you first attach it, at least that gives you a good perspective of how it will sit when moving on flat roads, iv seen combos where the car and van are so low at the towball they look decidedly unsafe, I wouldn't want to be in the vechile

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree regarding vechile and trailer being level when you first attach it, at least that gives you a good perspective of how it will sit when moving on flat roads, iv seen combos where the car and van are so low at the towball they look decidedly unsafe, I wouldn't want to be in the vechile

?????

I'm sorry but this constant referencing to the car or caravan being "level" is totally irrelevant.

Every car will compress its suspension depending on how much load its is carrying, (passengers luggage and other attachments) is applied, this will inevitably affect the height of the tow ball. The caravan or any trailer will have to assume an attitude depending on the height of the hitch when it is coupled.

Unless you have self leveling suspension on your car, trying to keep an outfit level when coupled is a fools errand, as it may compromise other more important loading and safety issues.

The EU has set out that a loaded tow ball on a domestic car must settle with a vertical height from horizontal ground of between 350 and 420mm measured to the geometric centre of the ball.

On the basis that each car manufacturer does indeed follow this directive correctly, it means that any car loaded to its maximum will retain its loaded ball hitch within the permitted range. Assuming there is no mechanical failure of any suspension components and the tyres are correctly inflated, then regardless of personal preferences on how it may look, it will be safe enough to drive.