Being new to caravanning we purchased a brand new caravan from a local main Bailey Dealer on Higher Purchase, after five trips away during our first year and getting the Caravan Bug especially our two children (aged 3 and 6) love going away in the caravan, We stored the caravan for the winter and booked up trips nearly every other week for next year. Then came the caravan's first annual service where a water ingress problem was found with damp readings of up to 80% caused by stress factures in the Front ABS Panel / Roof joint - the dealer said that this was a manufacturer repair only but the manufacturers could not repair for nearly ten weeks, this meant that we would have to cancel several pre-booked trips. I wanted to reject the caravan and have it replaced, so I even paid for an independent report which also confirmed that the caravan was not of merchantable quality and therefore not fit for purpose and given the age of the caravan, it should be replaced. Now the Finance Company, the Dealer and The Manufacturer dispute these findings and say that a repair is good enough. now I am wondering will the caravan be fit after repair for use, given that both my children are asthmatic?, which the caravan lose value upon re-sale? What are the long term effects of water ingress? And is there any more action can we take? We would greatly appreciate and advice since this unfortunate chain of events is making us think twice about caravanning.
Water Ingress
- Thread starter WilliamTups
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
William, the best advice is to get a solicitor to take the case up for you.
Whilst other users of the forum may have very strong views, that is all they are, none are legally enforceable.
As far as I know, if a repair is possible, then that is what the manufacturer is legally allowed to offer, and carry out.
However, if your van is unfit to use, and you are likely to lose money, and "away" time in the van, then press for a replacement to use pending repairs, or make it very clear that you will be claiming for loss of any deposits etc.
As it is going to be a manufacturers repair, then they will have to dry the interior wood out, then replace the panels, they may well replace any really wet timber, but the van wil be returned in good order and it will not affect the resale price.
Whilst other users of the forum may have very strong views, that is all they are, none are legally enforceable.
As far as I know, if a repair is possible, then that is what the manufacturer is legally allowed to offer, and carry out.
However, if your van is unfit to use, and you are likely to lose money, and "away" time in the van, then press for a replacement to use pending repairs, or make it very clear that you will be claiming for loss of any deposits etc.
As it is going to be a manufacturers repair, then they will have to dry the interior wood out, then replace the panels, they may well replace any really wet timber, but the van wil be returned in good order and it will not affect the resale price.
william,i too bought a bailey (pageant series 5 }a year ago, and it had its first service on 14/2/07, when water ingress was found 40%at front and 25% along rear,which i immediately informed the agent who supplied it,about.the agents are taking the problem to bailey,saying it is too big a job for them to handle. i am far from happy with the response so far .they say it is a fault they have not had in the past,however ,the engineer who services most of their vans told me ,he heard that they have sent back vans newly delivered with damp ,on at least a couple of occasions,it is too soon to give any further detail,but at least it may be of use to know it is not an isolated problem,
Raymond,
I have paid for an automotive engineer (got the names of a coupel of caravan specialists from the Caravan Club) - the report cost me
We have had the same problem after having 3 secondhand caravans without a problem we bought a brand new Stirling Europa on its first service we were told that it had 60% damp in the bathroom and swift recalled it back to their factory. This has been at expense to ourselves they agreed to pay for the storage costs of the contents but now are arguing about that. We have tried in vain to speak to a Manager but the customer care (or lack of it ) will not put us through and we can tell that they must think we are awkward because they are really off with us on the phone. When the caravan went back to the factory they discovered that there was only 10 - 20% damp but will they say anything to the dealer that told us there was more, we want them investigated? We feel like we would have been treated better if we had stolen the caravan from them, there is no goodwill and no looking after their customers you have paid you money and they don't care. We would never purchase a new caravan again and definately not one from Swift. We really do sympathise with you, it is not too much too expect a caravan fit for the purpose especially when you consider how much they cost.
We had a ranger which had apparent water ingress in the same area, the van did not go back to the factory it was repaired under warranty by a local repairs and was returned valeted. I saw the broken front panel. I had no problem with the van being repaired, in fact since there was no obvious sign of water ingress if it hadn't been for the service I wouldn't have known there was a leak until it got much much worse. I have had no further problems. The repairers put back together bashed, broken and dented vans everyday I have no reason to believe that there would be any further problem. Even if there was that's why I bought a van with a 6 years water ingress guarantee. We could use our van whilst waiting for the new front panel, we waited about 6-8 weeks, I believe it's a recognised issue. I didn't even think of sending it back but then the dealer was extremely sympathetic and thats probably what makes the difference.
Hi
Thanks all for the comments at present the finance company who basically own the caravan have referred it back to the dealer, the dealer is referring it back to the manufacturer - all keep passing the buck.
The advice of my legal team (via my Home Insurance and the Caravan Club) is not to hand the caravan over for repairs since in case law I have a very good chance of getting all my money back in full - the solicitors are just filing the court paperwork
Also as a point of interest the Dealer (based near Southampton, Hants) and the Manufacturer (Bailey) have said that a professional loss adjusters report (stating that the Caravan needs to be replaced) is only his personal opinion and not his professional one...... funny how a court of law use the opinion to base their judgments on..
I would be grateful for details of other problems that caravans are having so far I have encountered x15 people with year old Bailey caravans with water ingress noticed on the first service. Perhaps if enough noise is made the manufactures may listen and improve the quality - one would think that in today's age and technology that a 5/6 year period with no water ingress would be the norm.
Anyone with a problems check out the following link - it will prove very useful..
www.dti.gov.uk/files/file25486.pdf
Thanks all for the comments at present the finance company who basically own the caravan have referred it back to the dealer, the dealer is referring it back to the manufacturer - all keep passing the buck.
The advice of my legal team (via my Home Insurance and the Caravan Club) is not to hand the caravan over for repairs since in case law I have a very good chance of getting all my money back in full - the solicitors are just filing the court paperwork
Also as a point of interest the Dealer (based near Southampton, Hants) and the Manufacturer (Bailey) have said that a professional loss adjusters report (stating that the Caravan needs to be replaced) is only his personal opinion and not his professional one...... funny how a court of law use the opinion to base their judgments on..
I would be grateful for details of other problems that caravans are having so far I have encountered x15 people with year old Bailey caravans with water ingress noticed on the first service. Perhaps if enough noise is made the manufactures may listen and improve the quality - one would think that in today's age and technology that a 5/6 year period with no water ingress would be the norm.
Anyone with a problems check out the following link - it will prove very useful..
www.dti.gov.uk/files/file25486.pdf
In May 2006, my 1 year old Bailey Ranger 550/6 was diagnosed with damp (60% in some places)by the dealer as part of the annual service. I went through the debate about rejection under sale of goods etc. but as long as they offer repair, they're within their rights. Bailey wanted to take the van back immediately but as we had several weekends booked, we agreed with Bailey that it would go back in at the end of the season, It dutifully went in in October with an estimate of a six week repair. It actually took 3 months but I was kept advised of the stauts. I was concernced about re-sale so I got a written report from Bailey detailing what work was carried out (replacement front panel and drying out. All in all, I was disappointed when the problem was found but relatively pleased with the way in which it was resolved. The caravan's been open to the elements since January so I'm looking forward to the next service in May to confirm that the problem hasn't returned.
As far as rejecting the van common sense must prevail. It will all depend how long one has owned the van for prior to attempting to reject it. I rejected under the Sale of Goods Act a faulty car radio/cassette player from a national electrical dealer. Initially they would not refund my money so I threatened them with the small claims court. They very quickly changed their attitude and refunded my money.
If an independant surveyor has stated that the van is not of merchantable quality and it is only a year old I think a solicitor would support the claim and surely the dealer/manufacturer would not want the bad publicity. More so the dealer, as the contract is between the purchaser and the dealer and not the manufacturer. Prior to approaching a solicitor I would write to the dealer and offer him 28 days to sort it out or you have no alternative than to put the matter in the hands of a solicitor and any expences incured could possibly be awarded against the dealer by the court. Also claim for possible loss of holiday enjoyment for the family and any expence from the bookings. Lay it on thick and hard. Also try your local CAB for advice and even contact BBC Watchdog.
Good luck in your fight but do not let them pass you off with feeble excuses.
If an independant surveyor has stated that the van is not of merchantable quality and it is only a year old I think a solicitor would support the claim and surely the dealer/manufacturer would not want the bad publicity. More so the dealer, as the contract is between the purchaser and the dealer and not the manufacturer. Prior to approaching a solicitor I would write to the dealer and offer him 28 days to sort it out or you have no alternative than to put the matter in the hands of a solicitor and any expences incured could possibly be awarded against the dealer by the court. Also claim for possible loss of holiday enjoyment for the family and any expence from the bookings. Lay it on thick and hard. Also try your local CAB for advice and even contact BBC Watchdog.
Good luck in your fight but do not let them pass you off with feeble excuses.
Thanks all,
The matter has now going Legal (paid for by home insurance policy), since the Finance Company has backed the dealer and the Dealer "in the interests of their dealership agreement and also having to exchange the caravan would cost them
The matter has now going Legal (paid for by home insurance policy), since the Finance Company has backed the dealer and the Dealer "in the interests of their dealership agreement and also having to exchange the caravan would cost them
Hi. I have had ongoing problems with my van since new. The main ongoing problem is water coming in around windows despite having new seals and new front windows fitted under warranty. The van is now 15 months old but I have been communicating with the dealer regarding rejecting the van since it was 8 months old.
After putting it into the hands of solicitors through my house insurance I have now come to a satisfactory solution with the dealer. I did not really want to go down that route as I have done business with this company on many occasions but felt I was getting nowhere on my own. In the end I refused further repair work and the offer of it going back to the manufacturer because this was likely to further weaken my position.
Although long winded using solicitors and I think having not unrealistic ambitions as to the outcome has helped us come to a solution that although is not fantastic both the dealer and me can live with.
Good luck.
After putting it into the hands of solicitors through my house insurance I have now come to a satisfactory solution with the dealer. I did not really want to go down that route as I have done business with this company on many occasions but felt I was getting nowhere on my own. In the end I refused further repair work and the offer of it going back to the manufacturer because this was likely to further weaken my position.
Although long winded using solicitors and I think having not unrealistic ambitions as to the outcome has helped us come to a solution that although is not fantastic both the dealer and me can live with.
Good luck.
We have just found the web site ref water ingress to bailey caravans.
We purchased a Bailey Vendee last April and have just had our first service and --------- The caravan has water ingress at the front and requires a new front panel.
Our service engineer contacted Bailey and told us that Bailey have had problems with panel suppliers (they evidently have now changed suppliers) and the poor quality panels have been cracking.
Our Dealer has told us that baileys will replace the front panel but cannot take it untill 25th June and to allow 4 weeks for repair.
We have written to Baileys and the dealer requesting a replacement and asking why, if a problem was evident last year, they did not advise previous purchasers so that a damp check could have been carried out earlier and the problem found earlier rather that wait for the annual service to discover it.
I did notice in the warranty documentation that once a fault has been found and reported, the caravan should not be used until repairs have been carried out.
We also feel that the series 5 will now be known to dealers as having a damp problem and that the is a distinct possiblity that this will affect future trade in values.
we are still awaiting a reply from both the dealer and baileys
We purchased a Bailey Vendee last April and have just had our first service and --------- The caravan has water ingress at the front and requires a new front panel.
Our service engineer contacted Bailey and told us that Bailey have had problems with panel suppliers (they evidently have now changed suppliers) and the poor quality panels have been cracking.
Our Dealer has told us that baileys will replace the front panel but cannot take it untill 25th June and to allow 4 weeks for repair.
We have written to Baileys and the dealer requesting a replacement and asking why, if a problem was evident last year, they did not advise previous purchasers so that a damp check could have been carried out earlier and the problem found earlier rather that wait for the annual service to discover it.
I did notice in the warranty documentation that once a fault has been found and reported, the caravan should not be used until repairs have been carried out.
We also feel that the series 5 will now be known to dealers as having a damp problem and that the is a distinct possiblity that this will affect future trade in values.
we are still awaiting a reply from both the dealer and baileys
William,
Sorry to hear about your problems, & glad that you have sought legal advice.
Firstly, your contract is with the finance company, no one else, as they are the supplier of the caravan, they should not be involving you with the dealer or Baileys, they are, as you say, passing the buck.
Secondly, Baileys get out clause, "repair under warranty". any thing in a contract that attemts to remove or restrict your consumer rights is invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (the UTCC Regs).
Thirdly, if they say that because you have had the caravan for some time you have deemed to have accepted it, and as such have lost your right to reject it, as this type of water ingress is a known defect, it is known legally as a "latent defect" and your right to reject goods by reason of a latent defect extends far beyond the time that is normally considered as accepting the goods (in certain circumstances up to 6 years).
Fourthly, it doesnt matter if the finance company are going to make a
Sorry to hear about your problems, & glad that you have sought legal advice.
Firstly, your contract is with the finance company, no one else, as they are the supplier of the caravan, they should not be involving you with the dealer or Baileys, they are, as you say, passing the buck.
Secondly, Baileys get out clause, "repair under warranty". any thing in a contract that attemts to remove or restrict your consumer rights is invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (the UTCC Regs).
Thirdly, if they say that because you have had the caravan for some time you have deemed to have accepted it, and as such have lost your right to reject it, as this type of water ingress is a known defect, it is known legally as a "latent defect" and your right to reject goods by reason of a latent defect extends far beyond the time that is normally considered as accepting the goods (in certain circumstances up to 6 years).
Fourthly, it doesnt matter if the finance company are going to make a
William
Do not accept a repair on such a new van - we had a battle a few years ago, when our annually serviced van was found to be full of damp, which reduced it's then trade in value of
Do not accept a repair on such a new van - we had a battle a few years ago, when our annually serviced van was found to be full of damp, which reduced it's then trade in value of
Dear All,
Thanks for all your comments and support to date, please keep the advice / detaisl of other likewise problems coming, now having start legal action. I do not want to say too much just in case, but any major developments I will keep you all informed
Hoping for a successful outcome
Thanks Again
Bill
Thanks for all your comments and support to date, please keep the advice / detaisl of other likewise problems coming, now having start legal action. I do not want to say too much just in case, but any major developments I will keep you all informed
Hoping for a successful outcome
Thanks Again
Bill
your van sounds like my 2004 avondale dart.we wont touch them again,ever.light weight =poor quality.you are not alone.
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