Water inlet / fully serviced pitch

[ProfJohnL]

This is not about any inherent fault with the pipework inside a caravan, which of course could flood, this is about a normal caravan water system where its exposed to excess pressure caused by a fault outside the caravan, This is the potential risk associated with using a direct connection hose with a built in pressure reducer that fails.

Caravan water systems are only rated to withstand about 2.5 Bar of water pressure. If that pressure is exceeded some of the fittings or appliances like the water heater may be damaged.

Submersible pumps designed for caravans asr simply incapable of creating enough pressure to damage the pipework or the appliances.

Internal pumps are usually Positive Displacement (PD) and internally they can produce multiple pulses of higher pressure, but due to the elasticity of the caravans pipework, the micro pulses are smoothed an the pressure switch normally cuts off the pump to keep the system within limits.

If a direct to mains hose system is used it contains a Pressure regulating device in line with the hose. These are fairly reliable and the incidence of failure are low, but the consequence of them failing is always critical and high cost. Mains water pressure is typically 4Bar and frequently 6bar with dynamically induced peaks of up tp 10bar . If these pressures get through to the caravan pipe work they will wreak havoc.

If instead of direct connection to mains by a hose pipe the mains water is fed to a water carrier through a float valve, if the float fails the worst it will do is continue to fill the water carrier and it will over flow outside. It will not flood the caravan.

 

[Dustydog]

Prof
My system has an OEM surge damper so probably does not need to pulse stress the pipes?
I believe we covered all the other points In previous posts.
Is your Jury out? I wondered which side you are on, ie direct feed or via aquaroll. I believe that was the OP question. Some are for some like me against direct .

 

[otherclive]

My reading of Prof’s posts would put him in the Aquaroll “float” camp. But await his response with interest.

 

[Dustydog]

My reading of Prof’s posts would put him in the Aquaroll “float” camp. But await his response with interest.

I felt he could go both ways🤔😁

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm in favour of the float valve in the barrel for the protection against flooding AND becasue barrel insulates the caravan from poor or variable supply due to multiple users on the same water feed.

In most cases the dynamic flow and pressure from the submersible pump is superior to the dynamic flow through a mains water hose and pressure regulator.

 

[Ukdave2002]

Thanks for all the replies, I'll stick with a float in the aqua roll for now , as we have an inboard pump I'm not entirely convinced that putting pressurised water on what is a suck pump is the right thing to do? I may in the future add a separate inlet that bypasses the onboard pump , and has a suitable pressure relief valve.

Thanks again for all the input, as has been pointed out a few times, we all have our own preferences, otherwise life would be boring!

 

[Hutch]

One point nobody has mentioned and it is only for those that caravan in the winter. At least with the Aqua roll it is normally only the top half inch of water that will freeze up, where as with a hose pipe on the ground the water in the hose will freeze totally. My winter aqua roll pump is insulated from the top of the roll and a cover is over the aqua roll and around the supply pipe to the van.

 

[ProfJohnL]

.... I'm not entirely convinced that putting pressurised water on what is a suck pump is the right thing to do? I may in the future add a separate inlet that bypasses the onboard pump , and has a suitable pressure relief valve.
...

You are correct you would have to bypass the inboard pump.

 

[shouldknowbettor]

I cannot understand why a certain poster thinks that a statement made by myself regarding the float system is incorrect and illogical? If a pipe comes loose inside the caravan, the float system will flood the caravan the same way as a direct mains connection

It's the difference between an active and passive system. With a float in your aquaroll the active element is now outside the van, inside it's a passive pump that only works when you ask it too. Direct to van moves the active element to the inside.

So while both can flood the 'van, one requires a trigger to start the flood that would be you turning something on normally, whereas the other is always on and essentially trying to flood you out at all times. Add to this the possible pressure each can generate and you have two very different possibilities.

Yes the system with a float could flood anyway, but it's no more likely than without the float although the severity could increase, whereas the direct method increases the risk and severity.

 

[Buckman]

One point nobody has mentioned and it is only for those that caravan in the winter. At least with the Aqua roll it is normally only the top half inch of water that will freeze up, where as with a hose pipe on the ground the water in the hose will freeze totally. My winter aqua roll pump is insulated from the top of the roll and a cover is over the aqua roll and around the supply pipe to the van.

We have used direct mains in some very cold winters with no issue as we used pipe insulation on the hose part. Biggest issue was water freezing in the wastemaster so had to make sure that was emptied every night after showering.

 

[ProfJohnL]

We have used direct mains in some very cold winters with no issue as we used pipe insulation on the hose part. Biggest issue was water freezing in the wastemaster so had to make sure that was emptied every night after showering.

There will be plenty of people who have used direct hose connections without problems. and in that respect they can be a solution, but if the pressure reducer in hose fails, the fact its connected direct to the caravan it will put mains (typically 6Bar) pressure into the caravans pipework which is designed for no more then 2 to 2.5Bar pressure), and it will almost certainly fail and flood the caravan.

The same can't happen with a float valve in the external barrel, even if the float valve fails, the worst that will happen is the external container would overflow OUTSIDE not inside the caravan.

The risk of pressure reducer failure is statistically small, but the consequences are severe, so as an Failure Mode and Effect Assessment (FMEA) risk analysis produces a points score where it suggests its a high risk strategy.

By comparison a FMEA on the float valve in an external container still has a low incidence level. but the consequences are far less severe which radically reduces the FMEA risk score.

Historically the number of in line pressure reducers failures is very low compared to the numbers in use, but in virtually every case where one has failed, the end user has been disproportionately inconvenienced and faced significant repair or remedial costs. But the risk of an inline pressure reducer failure can be avoided completely by going for the float valve in the external tank.

In addition there are two other benefits of the external tank system, If the flow and pressure at the site tap is compromised becasue of high usage elsewhere on the site, the pressure variation of even loss of supply, is buffered by the external local water tank.

And the second point is many normal caravan pumps can manage to supply the caravan with better flow of water ( for showers) than the inline PRV.

For cost, flexibility and safety the float valve in the water barrel seems to have several advantages over the direct line water hose.

This is not about poorly installed water systems inside caravans.

 

[Buckman]

Not sure why the same information is being repeated again and again?

 

[Dustydog]

You are correct you would have to bypass the inboard pump.

Why Prof?
Whilst I don’t use one I do have the direct water feed kit.
The onboard pump is suction but is designed to pressure up to 2.5 bar.
Certainly Bailey and Swift permit direct usage without bypassing the pump.
Have they got it wrong?
You will see I am having water problems at the moment and may well try the direct later. But if a 3 way valve has failed the direct won’t work.
The direct system comes with its own PRV which is pretty well just an Archimedes Screw . I find it very hard to see how one of those could fail .The more sophisticated ones seem a bit ott for caravans . Do you know which manufacturer uses them? Maybe I need to update my system as it is 15 years old?
You would think water systems in caravans should be easy and simple🤪🤪

 

[Ukdave2002]

Why Prof?
Whilst I don’t use one I do have the direct water feed kit.
The onboard pump is suction but is designed to pressure up to 2.5 bar.
Certainly Bailey and Swift permit direct usage without bypassing the pump.
Have they got it wrong?
You will see I am having water problems at the moment and may well try the direct later. But if a 3 way valve has failed the direct won’t work.
The direct system comes with its own PRV which is pretty well just an Archimedes Screw . I find it very hard to see how one of those could fail .The more sophisticated ones seem a bit ott for caravans . Do you know which manufacturer uses them? Maybe I need to update my system as it is 15 years old?
You would think water systems in caravans should be easy and simple🤪🤪

That's kinda where I started with the OP question, as our 2016 Swift has a sticker that says "Direct to tap" (see pic on 1st post) & we have an inboard pump, I didn't realise when posting that alternatively the pump can be in the aqua roll, so I have learned something!

I did go to get a replacement inlet as someone had suggested that mine was for a shower, the dealer informed me that the non electrical Truma inlets are the same as the shower outlets and have the shower symbol.

 

[Dustydog]

That's kinda where I started with the OP question, as our 2016 Swift has a sticker that says "Direct to tap" (see pic on 1st post) & we have an inboard pump, I didn't realise when posting that alternatively the pump can be in the aqua roll, so I have learned something!

I did go to get a replacement inlet as someone had suggested that mine was for a shower, the dealer informed me that the non electrical Truma inlets are the same as the shower outlets and have the shower symbol.

It’s a long learning curve. 😜

 

[ProfJohnL]

Why Prof?
Whilst I don’t use one I do have the direct water feed kit.
The onboard pump is suction but is designed to pressure up to 2.5 bar.
Certainly Bailey and Swift permit direct usage without bypassing the pump.
Have they got it wrong?
You will see I am having water problems at the moment and may well try the direct later. But if a 3 way valve has failed the direct won’t work.
The direct system comes with its own PRV which is pretty well just an Archimedes Screw . I find it very hard to see how one of those could fail .The more sophisticated ones seem a bit ott for caravans . Do you know which manufacturer uses them? Maybe I need to update my system as it is 15 years old?
You would think water systems in caravans should be easy and simple🤪🤪

If what you say is true, then those caravan manufacturers have managed to overcome the natural restriction or block that conventional positive displacement pumps would create to the flow of water into the caravans pipework.

Or does the pump have to be run to to admit water?

 

[Dustydog]

If what you say is true, then those caravan manufacturers have managed to overcome the natural restriction or block that conventional positive displacement pumps would create to the flow of water into the caravans pipework.

Or does the pump have to be run to to admit wat

Whale say you can use the direct mains water system even with an onboard Smartflo or its latest successor . No need for 12v . However they recommend removing the plastic external mesh filter. I’ve tried it on mine this morning and it works fine.
There is no need gor Dave to install a bypass with all the taps needed. The pump is primarily a pusher but obviously sucks too. The pump itself contain an NRV. Hope this helps?