Water system problems.

[JanJan]

This shows the layout in front of the onboard water tank.

 

[Dustydog]

Sorry Jan it doesn‘t help😥,
Do you use an aquaroll or direct water feed on the outside?
If the former I assume there is a pump that works?
Reading your OP you saynthe flow through the taps is slower on Ext and Middle than Int. Thats correct. I suspect in that scenario the water is being sourced from the aquaroll not the on board tank.
So we know it all worked for 12 years ok.
I still need to see a schematic diagram showing the electrical connections and interface between the pipe work , internal tank and aquaroll including exactly what each position of the three way Int/ Midd/ Ext does.
Grasping at straws but did the AWS check the switch functions correctly in all three positions?

 

[JanJan]

Sorry Jan it doesn‘t help😥,
Do you use an aquaroll or direct water feed on the outside?
If the former I assume there is a pump that works?
Reading your OP you saynthe flow through the taps is slower on Ext and Middle than Int. Thats correct. I suspect in that scenario the water is being sourced from the aquaroll not the on board tank.
So we know it all worked for 12 years ok.
I still need to see a schematic diagram showing the electrical connections and interface between the pipe work , internal tank and aquaroll including exactly what each position of the three way Int/ Midd/ Ext does.
Grasping at straws but did the AWS check the switch functions correctly in all three positions?

Hi

I will try to respond to each part.

1. We use the aquaroll with a Whale Watermaster EP1612.
2. This does work.
3. If we unplug the aquaroll and switch to internal the taps work from the internal pump. The problem is the internal pump does not switch off. We have to switch off the pump switch.
4. It has worked for 12 years. Throughout that time we have had issues that were resolved by approved workshops, for the first 10 years we used the same workshop, however he gave up his workshop and moved onto a different job. We have only resorted to trying to solve the issue ourselves because we are not getting a resolution.
5. I am trying to produce a schematic diagram. It will probably be hand drawn unless you know of any software I should use,
6. The AWS checked the switch functions in all three positions. This was as follows
a. The internal switch operated the internal pump but would not stop when the tap was closed.
b. The external switch operated the external pump but the pump did not stop when the internal water tank was full.

After he left in discussion with him we changed the pressure switch. This change stopped the switch from clicking but did not stop the internal pump from continually running after the tap was switched off.

The result of changing the pressure switch reversed the function of the switch. Now:
a. The internal switch now operates the external pump
b. The external switch now operates the internal pump
c. The centre switch also operates the external pump
I cannot understand how changing the pressure switch has caused the change - it seems to defy all logic.

Thanks again
I am working on the diagram.

 

[Dustydog]

No promises Jan but you have given some more useful information. A schematic hand drawn will be fine and may help,some us solve your dilemma. Just to say we are all well seasoned caravanners and not AWS. Between us we do have a fountain of knowledge😉

 

[JanJan]

No promises Jan but you have given some more useful information. A schematic hand drawn will be fine and may help,some us solve your dilemma. Just to say we are all well seasoned caravanners and not AWS. Between us we do have a fountain of knowledge😉

Hi.
This is my attempt at a diagram with just the water system.

i am sorry I don’t know the correct symbols.

I will now try to add on the extras. The water level float switches and the water level sensor.

 

[JanJan]

Hi

Thank you for working through this I do appreciate it.

I have tried to keep the diagram close to the actual layout. Hopefully this will help in understanding each photograph.

If this is adequate for the water I will now try to draw the electrics.

Thanks
Jan

 

[JanJan]

 

[ProfJohnL]

From the pictures and your self penned schematic, the external water pump has its own pressure switch built into the whale water inlet fitting. The internal pump must (should) use the white pressure switch sitting next to the solenoid valve.

If the internal pump continues to run, it should respond to adjusting the white pressure switch.

But if the wiring has been compromised its impossible to know whats been done.

One thing that does confuse me is the solenoid valve, which according to the label on it it is opperated by mains electricicty only, so to fill the internal tank you must have the EHU connected Ths means you cannot add water to the internal tank if you are not connected to mains electricity.

Does this make any sense?

 

[JanJan]

 

[JanJan]

From the pictures and your self penned schematic, the external water pump has its own pressure switch built into the whale water inlet fitting. The internal pump must (should) use the white pressure switch sitting next to the solenoid valve.

If the internal pump continues to run, it should respond to adjusting the white pressure switch.

But if the wiring has been compromised its impossible to know whats been done.

One thing that does confuse me is the solenoid valve, which according to the label on it it is opperated by mains electricicty only, so to fill the internal tank you must have the EHU connected Ths means you cannot add water to the internal tank if you are not connected to mains electricity.

Does this make any sense?

Hi
Thank you this does make some sense.

You are right about the solenoid valve.

We ordered a new one; DC 12 volt and AC220 volt. However they sent it with the wrong size inlet and outlet connectors. We returned this for a replacement that had the correct size. We failed to notice it was only mains. We have not tried to run the water without being plugged into the mains. I guess the next step is for us to replace the solenoid. And try the system when it is not plugged into the mains.

The Whale Master socket does not have a built in pressure switch. When we dismantled it to change the O rings there was nothing there. You can see from this picture that there isn‘t a pressure switch or a non return valve. The non return valve is a separate Truma valve - see picture.

We have also recently changed the battery. I read somewhere that this can have an impact to the system.

Thanks
I hope that this is going to solve at least some of the problems.

 

[JanJan]

Hello All who helped.

Thank you all so much!!!

It is working. We changed the solenoid and the water is working. The switches are the wrong way round but we can live with that for now.

Have a great evening everyone. We have had a crash course in caravan water systems.

The internal tank fills from outside and the inline switch cuts off when it is full.

The internal pump stops when we turn the tap off.

😃

 

[Dustydog]

Well done Prof you cracked the solenoid factor👏👏👏👏

 

[ProfJohnL]

Well done Prof you cracked the solenoid factor👏👏👏👏

II don't think the solenoid was the factor. That would only have prevented the internal tank from filling, it should not have impacted the function of the internal pump, so I don't know what has corrected the probl.....OOhh!!! , if the solenoid was not allowing water into the internal tank, the internal pump might have got an airlock which prevented it from generating enough pressure to satisfy the pressure switch.

I had assumed the caravan would have had a diaphragm pump for the internal pump, but there are no photos that show it. Instead some caravan manufacturers do use a submersible pump inside the tank, and just like the external pumps if the water level in the tank drops too far they can air lock.

With the solenoid working, some water may have filled the internal tank enough for the pump to expel the air lock and to generate pressure to trigger the pressure switch.

 

[JanJan]

II don't think the solenoid was the factor. That would only have prevented the internal tank from filling, it should not have impacted the function of the internal pump, so I don't know what has corrected the probl.....OOhh!!! , if the solenoid was not allowing water into the internal tank, the internal pump might have got an airlock which prevented it from generating enough pressure to satisfy the pressure switch.

I had assumed the caravan would have had a diaphragm pump for the internal pump, but there are no photos that show it. Instead some caravan manufacturers do use a submersible pump inside the tank, and just like the external pumps if the water level in the tank drops too far they can air lock.

With the solenoid working, some water may have filled the internal tank enough for the pump to expel the air lock and to generate pressure to trigger the pressure switch.

Hi

The internal pump is inside the onboard water tank. The internal pump did work if we unplugged the external pump the taps would still run.

The problem was the pump did not stop when we turned the tap(s) off.

We did know about the air lock possibility and made sure the pump was submerged.

Also, the inline switch at the bottom of the tank did work so it would have cut out. I hope I am explaining this correctly - I am not sure I always use the correct terminology.

I am happy to continue to explain what was and is happening. We are off on holiday with the van and a working water system thanks to you and this forum. I can also let you know if and when we get the control to work internal/external and not in reverse. It has all been an education - in many ways.

Thanks again!
We are happy caravaners.

 

[mjh73]

Glad you got it sorted!