Weight issues

[Craigyoung]

It depends on what you've got ; we have a 3.9 for the barbecue strapped inside , that's a portable barbecue not a one attaches to the van # don't carry neither bottles in car # & my 6 kg for main gas , had both over 2 years and that is away for 2 main holidays 2wks away and BBQing every day twice a day and away every 4 or 5th weekend . Could off probably gettin away with taking them this year but I have just renewed them just in case !!

 

[Craigyoung]

...Ste, I would carry the small 3.9 in the rear footwell of the car, I know its not good practice but when you pick up a new bottle where do you carry it.....

I may do that once in a couple of years when I swap the bottles over when I'm by myself in the car but he has two kids and two dogs also in the car hutch .

 

[Hutch]

I still stand that carrying a gas bottle in a car is ok. Ref , calors website. https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/advice/transporting.

 

[Hutch]

Ste, I would carry the small 3.9 in the rear footwell of the car, I know its not good practice ......

It certainly isn't a good idea, in fact its its about as bad as it can possibly be!.

Just in case any reader does not know why;, LPG as you should know is highly flammable when mixed in the right proportions with air. The gas vapour is heavier than air so any leak on the cylinder is going to collect in the footwell and build up to a dangerous level quite easily. In addition there are so many switch contacts inside a car there would be an almost certain probability of any collected gas igniting certainly enough to burn the occupants if not explode.

There is enough energy contained in a full gas bottle to not only blow the windows out but to physically rip open the roof of a car.

Even the smallest loose gas cylinder inside a car will become a deadly missile in the event of a collision.

It is irresponsible to even suggest carrying portable gas bottles inside a car.

https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/advice/transporting
Back to reality. See my last post from calor. https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/advice/transporting

 

[Hutch]

Prof J, Reading through the Camping and Caravan magazine, I have never noticed any comment about not carrying gas bottles in cars. Maybe the campers get them delivered to the campsites they go to at weekends. Ah so sensible.

 

[Icaru5]

I also occasionally carry a gas bottle in the car, stored upright and tethered in position.

If there was a leak from the bottle sufficient enough to be hazardous, I would smell it before it did become a danger.

Regarding the amount of energy stored in the gas bottle, I don’t see this as any more of a hazard than a tank of petrol, which is also extremely flammable when mixed with a certain quantity of air and under certain conditions. in fact, I would suggest it is even less of a potential hazard as at least the gas bottle is steel rather than plastic, stored in a shaded part of the car boot, underneath the tonneau cover and doesn’t have a hot exhaust pipe running within a couple of inches of it !

 

[JTQ]

Our tent camping "brothers" just as when we were camping that way have no option but carry any gas in some part of the car.
If I need to carry a spare of my Gaslight, I carry that secured and vertical in the vehicle though remove it as soon as reaching a site. I make the point of never leaving it there and locking the car, so unlocking it in the morning might discover it had "wept".
Just as with many things identify the risk, consider it and act with some careful regard to the risks.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It is inappropriate to compare the danger of a gas bottle carried inside a vehicle to that of a petrol tank under the vehicle.

I'm not suggesting a leaking petrol tank is safe, of course it isn't, but the liquid and fumes are outside the vehicle. The difference is that LPG is held under pressure, and if the container isn't sealed properly or if it gets damaged it will eject vapour into the enclosed space inside the car. Even worse would be the ejection of liquefied gas if the bottle is not upright. Then the danger is rapidly escalated because the liquefied gas will cause frostbite if it touches skin, as it tries to vaporise, and as it will expand at least to 250 times its liquid volume, it will produce a large quantity of flammable gas..

Just because there are thankfully few such incidents, does not mean carrying LPG bottles inside a car is an acceptable risk.

Added comment. The reasons expressed above are why gas bottle lockers in caravans and motorhomes , and bottle storage solutions in homes and businesses are never inside but are always external to the occupied space, and have proper ventilation. If it's sensible for static locations where the risk of damage is already low its obviously even more important where the risk of a moving incident is greater.

 

[Parksy]

This discussion, although interesting and valid, is veering away from the original query which is about the weight of a touring caravan from a new caravanner.
His solution is simple, just use the remaining gas on a short trip before crossing the channel and purchase a full replacement if the few kilos are so important to him.
I'm tempted to move the lpg container carriage points and replies to a separate topic for further debate.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Parksy for your intervention

I agree this was moving away from the OP's point, but I do feel the diversion was relevant as far as it has gone. It had been suggested that to reduce the weight in the caravan by transferring a gas bottle to the car, and on that specific point it was important to make readers aware of the dangers of this unsafe suggestion.

It would be safer to leave the gas bottle inits designated carrier in the caravan and to move other less hazardous material to the car.

 

[Parksy]

Thank you Parksy for your intervention

I agree this was moving away from the OP's point, but I do feel the diversion was relevant as far as it has gone. It had been suggested that to reduce the weight in the caravan by transferring a gas bottle to the car, and on that specific point it was important to make readers aware of the dangers of this unsafe suggestion.

It would be safer to leave the gas bottle inits designated carrier in the caravan and to move other less hazardous material to the car.

I accept your point Prof.
It could be interesting to have a separate discussion about the methods that forum members utilise to transport lpg containers, either to and from the place of purchase or when embarking on a caravan holiday.
We don't use much lpg these days, but unless I buy lpg refills on caravan sites I secure the container upright in the back of the Sorento to transport it to the caravan

 

[otherclive]

Ste, I would carry the small 3.9 in the rear footwell of the car, I know its not good practice but when you pick up a new bottle where do you carry it. ? My first few time over to France I used to take three 6kg calor bottles for winter, for 4 weeks, 2 full bottles in the summer, as I remember only used 1 full bottle in the summer/ Autumn , BBQ every day.
You have lightened your, caravan a lot, thing like extra Blue and Pink toilet stuff, carry minimum buy it over there, but not Switzerland.
We take one set of "Smartish " clothes just in case somewhere really expensive, twice in six years, and we took the dogs in, I think your maybe worrying too much, tinned food items can be bought over in Europe easily,

I’ve been telling my wife for years that there are grocery outlets all over the UK and Europe.

 

[otherclive]

This discussion, although interesting and valid, is veering away from the original query which is about the weight of a touring caravan from a new caravanner.
His solution is simple, just use the remaining gas on a short trip before crossing the channel and purchase a full replacement if the few kilos are so important to him.
I'm tempted to move the lpg container carriage points and replies to a separate topic for further debate.

Parksy
Please no we had such debate a while back and if I recall you used your normal sensible approach in suggesting that for most people it’s neigh on impossible to get a new bottle home without placing it in the car. Although taking the van orca trailer could be two option -

 

[Ste6t9]

Thank you everybody. Rest assured, safety first. I think, knowing how little we will be using the oven and bbq as we are staying with 2 other families in static homes on the same sites, I will keep my 6kg at home and just take the full 3.9kg.

I have done some shifting and now have a bit less in the van (things I could do without) and an acceptable nose weight of about 87kg - possibly a bit light but easy to rectify.

 

[otherclive]

Thank you everybody. Rest assured, safety first. I think, knowing how little we will be using the oven and bbq as we are staying with 2 other families in static homes on the same sites, I will keep my 6kg at home and just take the full 3.9kg.

I have done some shifting and now have a bit less in the van (things I could do without) and an acceptable nose weight of about 87kg - possibly a bit light but easy to rectify.

Well done and 87 kg nose weight should be absolutely fine. The loading and its distribution and your driving will give a very good indication of how comfortable with the outfit. Enjoy the trip.

 

[ProfJohnL]

....
I have done some shifting and now have a bit less in the van (things I could do without) and an acceptable nose weight of about 87kg - possibly a bit light but easy to rectify.

Why do you think 87kg may be a bit light?

You only need enough nose load to keep the outfit controllable, You might find somewhat less is still absolutely fine. There is no way of predicting absolutely what you will need for your outfit, and of course as you use the caravan the weight distribution will change (e.g. less gas, more waste in the loo, souvenir rocks, wet clothes etc...) you might find that you need a different nose load on the return and subsequent journeys. It never a fixed value.

Generally more nose load is better than less, but it should be kept within the vehicles specification.

 

[Grey13]

Gents, I also have weight issues, Dr said drink less wine! Leads me to - have you checked where you store the wine in the van, best to put it at the back! That will reduce nose weight!

 

[Craigyoung]

Gents, I also have weight issues, Dr said drink less wine! Leads me to - have you checked where you store the wine in the van, best to put it at the back! That will reduce nose weight!

Mine will be stored front and back !
Done it once and I'll be doing it again !

 

[Hutch]

Nice thoughts Lads but it doesn't help, Ste69.

Reading his postings I think he needs all our help, to help his /her next trip enjoyable,

Your caravan should be best between 70 kg to the max of your hitch 100 kg. You have a wide range and that will not change vastly as you tow to your destination. .
Nose weights are variable, in inch or two higher or lower will not make your tow bad. From day to day. Ie change in using a packet of pasta, large tin of Baked beans and eggs for dreakfast, putting the tv in a different position on the bed or front seat. Try to keep things more to the front of the axle of the van.
Others might defer, but thats my findings, from an old Scrote.

 

[DaveA1]

Nice thoughts Lads but it doesn't help, Ste69.

Reading his postings I think he needs all our help, to help his /her next trip enjoyable,

Your caravan should be best between 70 kg to the max of your hitch 100 kg. You have a wide range and that will not change vastly as you tow to your destination. .
Nose weights are variable, in inch or two higher or lower will not make your tow bad. From day to day. Ie change in using a packet of pasta, large tin of Baked beans and eggs for dreakfast, putting the tv in a different position on the bed or front seat. Try to keep things more to the front of the axle of the van.
Others might defer, but thats my findings, from an old Scrote.

Spot on explanation. Hutch. Although will have to google dreakfast

 

[Hutch]

Lets get to basics,

My self and Prof J can get to logger heads, kg weight on tow hitches being 3 cm higher. And have disagreements on formulas.

But to help you. My thoughts are.

. Get the "Tow hitch weight roughly where you want it, if your caravan tows niceley then thats good but don't overload the hitch weight which is 100 kg with the alko 3004.

Prof J. you agree with that. Hutch