Weights plate missing from chassis

[sxitoes]

Hello I was wondering if anyone could help I have a Elddis Whirlwind dates I think to about 1985. It has a single front window and solid door with no glass. Does anyone know the kirb weight, and the max load weight so I cant have another plate made?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[otherclive]

Ellis’s May hold the data although since your caravan was made they have been through a lot of changes. Also the Owners Club or a Classic caravan owners club may help. There may be weights stamped on the chassis A frame and the axle may be stamped with its max load.

Good luck

 

[otherclive]

Eldiss may hold the data although since your caravan was made they have been through a lot of changes. Also the Owners Club or a Classic caravan owners club may help. There may be weights stamped on the chassis A frame and the axle may be stamped with its max load.

Good luck

 

[Buckman]

Hello I was wondering if anyone could help I have a Elddis Whirlwind dates I think to about 1985. It has a single front window and solid door with no glass. Does anyone know the kirb weight, and the max load weight so I cant have another plate made?

Many thanks in advance.

Is there any reason why you want to fit another plate as it is not a mandatory plate. A lot of caravans of that vintage have the plate inside the front locker. Have you checked there?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm not sure when the legislation came in, but currently, the coach builder determines the max vehicle weight (MTPLM) regardless of the chassis manufacturers capacity rating.

 

[Buckman]

I'm not sure when the legislation came in, but currently, the coach builder determines the max vehicle weight (MTPLM) regardless of the chassis manufacturers capacity rating.

As far as I am aware there is no legislation governing the MTPLM of the body however if there is it would be interesting to read up on. Actually i don't think there is any legislation regarding the MTPLM.
I think legislation regarding chassis was introduced in about Oct 2012 where there had to be a mandatory plate fitted to the trailer chassis and it had to be registered with a VIn number.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm not sure when the legislation came in, but currently, the coach builder determines the max vehicle weight (MTPLM) regardless of the chassis manufacturers capacity rating.

As far as I am aware there is no legislation governing the MTPLM of the body however if there is it would be interesting to read up on. Actually i don't think there is any legislation regarding the MTPLM.
I think legislation regarding chassis was introduced in about Oct 2012 where there had to be a mandatory plate fitted to the trailer chassis and it had to be registered with a VIn number.

You are free to choose whether to use or ignore the information I have supplied at your peril. The VIN number will be registered to the coachbody manufacture not the chassis manufacturer , and thus their MTPLM figure is the one used to determine if a given trailer is overloaded.

 

[Buckman]

I'm not sure when the legislation came in, but currently, the coach builder determines the max vehicle weight (MTPLM) regardless of the chassis manufacturers capacity rating.

As far as I am aware there is no legislation governing the MTPLM of the body however if there is it would be interesting to read up on. Actually i don't think there is any legislation regarding the MTPLM.
I think legislation regarding chassis was introduced in about Oct 2012 where there had to be a mandatory plate fitted to the trailer chassis and it had to be registered with a VIn number.

You are free to choose whether to use or ignore the information I have supplied at your peril. The VIN number will be registered to the coachbody manufacture not the chassis manufacturer , and thus their MTPLM figure is the one used to determine if a given trailer is overloaded.

The OP is talking about a 1985 caravan and not a caravan built after 2012 so not CRIS or VIN number. The CRIS number on the body has nothing to do with a VIN number. It seems you may be getting mixed up between a CRIS number for the bodywork and the VIN number which is on the chassis? It is not mandatory to have a VIN or CRIS number or any plate on the bodywork as currently the sticker or plate on the bodywork does not conform to mandatory requirements.

 

[Raywood]

I would try this site https://www.nationwidecaravanninguk.com/brochure-archive. They have a good selection of brochures which normally show the weights you need. The brochures are generally not model specific, but for the model year, and if you are not sure of the year check the pictures to confirm you have the right one.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Buckman,

I am not getting mixed up. CRIS had not even been mentioned.

see
https://ntta.co.uk/safe-legal-towing/trailer-maximum-weights/ This plate would be fitted by the coachbuilder as the chassis manufactures limits will be overridden by the final manufacture to handle the chassis.

It is the equivalent to an HGV plated weight limit, which may have bee derated if the maximum weight the vehicles will handle in use is less than its mechanical capability. This is done to improve teh tax efficiency and is often the case where a commercial manufactures products have a low density.

It is the plated value the authorities will use to assess if teh vehicle is being used above its authorised mass.

 

[Buckman]

Hello Buckman,

I am not getting mixed up. CRIS had not even been mentioned.

see
https://ntta.co.uk/safe-legal-towing/trailer-maximum-weights/ This plate would be fitted by the coachbuilder as the chassis manufactures limits will be overridden by the final manufacture to handle the chassis.

It is the equivalent to an HGV plated weight limit, which may have bee derated if the maximum weight the vehicles will handle in use is less than its mechanical capability. This is done to improve teh tax efficiency and is often the case where a commercial manufactures products have a low density.

It is the plated value the authorities will use to assess if teh vehicle is being used above its authorised mass.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your reference to a coach builder? I am sure that the body work of a caravan does not have a VIN number, but the chassis on which it is built probably has a VIN number. However going back to the OP, I wonder if they have found a sticker or plate with the details on it. BTW the link you supplied is from a trailer organisation and not a gov website so hardly official as these type of sites tend to make up things as they go along. 😉

 

[ProfJohnL]

I used the term coach builder to differentiate it from the chassis manufacture and it relates to the company that builds the body of the caravan/ motorhome, or any superstructure not supplied by the chassis manufacture.

It is a common enough reference used throughout the motor vehicle and trailer industry.

I agree the site I pointed to is not a government site, but it is far from the noddy type organisation you casually accuse it of being. It is a well respected organisation that lobby's on behalf of the trailer industry, and as such it is highly knowledgeable on the legalities of towing.

I would most definitely believe the accuracy of its web site over causal commentators on a forum.

Just out of interest the Camping & Caravanning Club
https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/datasheets/matching-car-caravan/

state

"The standard MTPLM figure for caravans given by manufacturers is calculated according to the British and European standard BS EN 1645. It's technically known as the MTPLM (Lower Limit) and in some cases this can be increased to the MTPLM (Upper Limit). This Upper Limit is based on the physical limits of the caravan itself, such as its chassis and axle limits. If you have a suitable towcar and your driving licence allows it (Data Sheet 40 - driving licences has detailed information about the limitations of a licence), you can ask your caravan dealer to - replate - the unit to the higher MTPLM with the resulting increase being the amount of luggage and other extras you can carry. It's important to do this because if you are challenged by the police or insurance company and questioned about the legality of your outfit, it's the figures given on the plates and accompanying documentation that will be used to validate your statements."

The NCC state
"Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM)
(Maximum Authorised Mass)
As stated by the caravan manufacturer on the caravan weight plate (usually mounted close to the entrance door) – the absolute maximum weight that the caravan must not exceed to be legal on the road. It includes the allowances for the user payload – all fluids (water etc) and personal belongings that you may wish to carry (clothes, food etc)."

I presume you consider both these astute organisations make up answers from thin air also.

 

[Buckman]

I used the term coach builder to differentiate it from the chassis manufacture and it relates to the company that builds the body of the caravan/ motorhome, or any superstructure not supplied by the chassis manufacture.

It is a common enough reference used throughout the motor vehicle and trailer industry.

I agree the site I pointed to is not a government site, but it is far from the noddy type organisation you casually accuse it of being. It is a well respected organisation that lobby's on behalf of the trailer industry, and as such it is highly knowledgeable on the legalities of towing.

I would most definitely believe the accuracy of its web site over causal commentators on a forum.

Just out of interest the Camping & Caravanning Club
https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/datasheets/matching-car-caravan/

state

"The standard MTPLM figure for caravans given by manufacturers is calculated according to the British and European standard BS EN 1645. It's technically known as the MTPLM (Lower Limit) and in some cases this can be increased to the MTPLM (Upper Limit). This Upper Limit is based on the physical limits of the caravan itself, such as its chassis and axle limits. If you have a suitable towcar and your driving licence allows it (Data Sheet 40 - driving licences has detailed information about the limitations of a licence), you can ask your caravan dealer to - replate - the unit to the higher MTPLM with the resulting increase being the amount of luggage and other extras you can carry. It's important to do this because if you are challenged by the police or insurance company and questioned about the legality of your outfit, it's the figures given on the plates and accompanying documentation that will be used to validate your statements."

The NCC state
"Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM)
(Maximum Authorised Mass)
As stated by the caravan manufacturer on the caravan weight plate (usually mounted close to the entrance door) – the absolute maximum weight that the caravan must not exceed to be legal on the road. It includes the allowances for the user payload – all fluids (water etc) and personal belongings that you may wish to carry (clothes, food etc)."

I presume you consider both these astute organisations make up answers from thin air also.

Not sure what you are prattling on about as the OP was asking about a plate and my responses have centred around the MTPLM plate. How many caravans have an actual plate and how many have a sticker? The plate on the bodywork with the MTPLM is not mandatory and if you are unsure ask VOSA as I did a few years ago. BTW I am sure that both the extracts above have no standing in law and have no reference to any legislation. 😉
Your input is valuable but sometimes your interpretation is different to the actual legislation however for the sake of peace I I will agree with everything you say whether right or wrong as long as you are happy! :lol:

 

[otherclive]

My MTPLM label adjacent to the caravan door is so faded that its text has disappeared. So I obtained a replacement from Swift and I now carry that with the caravan documents. I had the same problem with my previous Bailey. It shouldn’t be that difficult to produce a label that lasts longer than 4 years. And it’s not through over intensive washing and polishing.

 

[Parksy]

Please play nicely and stick to the question asked by the newbie in his first forum post with regard to his C1985 Elddis Whirlwind which was:
'Does anyone know the kirb [sic]weight, and the max load weight so I cant have another plate made?'
The newbie didn't ask for an in depth discourse on the legalities of vin numbers or chassis plates.

 

[Buckman]

Please play nicely and stick to the question asked by the newbie in his first forum post with regard to his C1985 Elddis Whirlwind which was:
'Does anyone know the kirb [sic]weight, and the max load weight so I cant have another plate made?'
The newbie didn't ask for an in depth discourse on the legalities of vin numbers or chassis plates.

I agree with you Parksy.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Please play nicely and stick to the question asked by the newbie in his first forum post with regard to his C1985 Elddis Whirlwind which was:
'Does anyone know the kirb [sic]weight, and the max load weight so I cant have another plate made?'
The newbie didn't ask for an in depth discourse on the legalities of vin numbers or chassis plates.

Hello Parksy
The OP was directed by Buckman to use the information on the chassis manufactures plate. We know that many caravan manufacturers de-rate the trailer MTPLM from the chassis limits, and its this lower limit which the authorities would use. If the OP were to use the Chassis limit and load up to it, and they were stopped and checked, they would be overloaded, in just the same way that an HGV limit is displayed on the vehicles plate even if the mechanical capability of the vehicle is greater.

So it is important the correct limit is discovered.

This information has been debated previously on the forum and someone did find the legislation that covered this important matter but I was unable to find the links to the relevant threads.

 

[Raywood]

I have to agree with the Prof here that it is necessary to get the weight information that Eldiss would have given rather than the chassis makers as the two may be different. If it is missing and the OP does not know the year for sure then it is difficult for both him and the authorities to prove either way what the limits are if it came to the crunch. I hope he has used my link to the caravan brochures site, which is very good if you need this sort of information, as the brochures give the weights and the photos should confirm the year. Not sure you would get this elsewhere for a caravan of that age.