What is a normal battery drain when shut down?

[andybrad]

Hi

I am new here, but have had a 2010 Coachman Laser for the last 4 years. I am getting mixed messages on how much current I should expect the caravan to draw when everything is shut down, and would appreciate some advice. The net effect is that my battery only lasts about 2 weeks between charges when the caravan is stored. Is this normal?

To elaborate further, the caravan has an alarm and tracker fitted, and I have measured that each draws about 110-120mA and 50-60mA respectively. Nothing else draws current when everything switchable is off. Over 2 weeks this takes about 57 Ah out of the battery. I have a 115 Ah battery, so this equates to approx 50% of its capacity, and takes it down to the point where it really needs recharging. Both the manufacturers of the alarm (Sargeant) and the Tracker (Phantom) tell me that their devices will not consistently and continuously draw this amount of current, but both my multimeter readings and the measured life of the battery point to the fact that they do.

Does anyone else have experience with a similar system or can offer any advice on whether there is anything wrong?

Many thanks

Andy

 

[saint-spoon]

Just doing the maths quickly 0.12 +0.06 amps x 24 hours x 14 days = 40.32 Ampere Hours which would equate to just over a third of the capacity of your battery.
Remembering back to my battery theory lessons from my apprenticeship I seem to recall that it is almost impossible to gauge the exact charge remaining in a battery because there are so many variables not least the age of the battery and the ambient temperature. As your battery ages its capacity to hold charge will decrease, that is inevitable as the electrolyte degrades and the coatings on the plates degrade ( I used to know the exact chemical processes and why but the past 30 something years has faded that knowledge). It may be that due to battery age that what you have is perfectly normal engineering wise. Have you considered a solar trickle charger, it may not keep the battery fully charged but it may help prolong the time between charges.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

If you have a radio in the van then that will draw current, even when switched off ! You need to remove the face plate if it is removable (most are) as they are wired to take power direct from the battery.

 

[Dustydog]

As far as I am aware my tracker uses a separate power supply which lasts months.It gets recharged as soon as ehu is used.The alarm. Uses its own 9 volt battery .
I suspect your master switch is still on. The current being drawn by the fridge internal light. This can be isolated by full turning off the fridge.
Check the status aerial amplifier is also off.
Please let us know what you find.

 

[MichaelE]

The Phantom does pull power from your leisure battery, another item to check is the radio? That has a permanent live feed to it, i always put a rocker switch inline as it doesnt bother me keep ing the station settings and time. You would be surprised how much power than would consume.
I always turn the master switch off when in storage.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

another item to check is the radio?

Yeah, I said that 2 posts up.

 

[MichaelE]

another item to check is the radio?

Yeah, I said that 2 posts up.

Apologies

 

[Dustydog]

Michael
My Bailey uses The Tracker which is different from Phantom.
The Tracker is self supporting with a hidden Independent Power Supply which is guaranteed to last 5 years.
If the Phantom relies on the Leisure battery then it will be easily defeated by any competent thief. And if as you say it draws its current from the LB then what a very poor design it is hmy:
Andy

Do you still get a power discharge with the Tracker on or off?

 

[Hutch]

Andy, I had the same problem on my 2010 Coachman and as WC states it was The radio front that would draw the power. My cure was to pull the fuse for the radio. I also do this on my current Coachman.

 

[chrisn7]

Michael
My Bailey uses The Tracker which is different from Phantom.
The Tracker is self supporting with a hidden Independent Power Supply which is guaranteed to last 5 years.
If the Phantom relies on the Leisure battery then it will be easily defeated by any competent thief. And if as you say it draws its current from the LB then what a very poor design it is hmy:
Andy

Do you still get a power discharge with the Tracker on or off?

Trackers and alarm systems both have their own battery packs. I always thought that these packs are themselves kept charged from the caravan battery - that's the way its done on cars. 'Wet' back up batteries are not supposed to be allowed to run down too far as this reduces service like.
As an aside Tracker do not contact you after 5 years to remind you to check/change the battery...

 

[MichaelE]

Michael
My Bailey uses The Tracker which is different from Phantom.
The Tracker is self supporting with a hidden Independent Power Supply which is guaranteed to last 5 years.
If the Phantom relies on the Leisure battery then it will be easily defeated by any competent thief. And if as you say it draws its current from the LB then what a very poor design it is hmy:
Andy

Do you still get a power discharge with the Tracker on or off?

The Phantom has a battery back so if the power does get cut from the leisure battery it will still function.

 

[Hutch]

On my 2010 Coachman with the Phantom system, the Caravans battery was the main supply and had a small back up battery for the Phantom, as soon as the voltage got down to 12 v the Phanton sent a msg and they would contact you to say battery power was low. You had to contact them if you took the battery out to charge it if in storage. And it would draw more power if you stored it under cover trying to find a signal. If the temperature dropped to zero, that would set it off.
Glad my 2013 Coachman doesn't have one.

 

[andybrad]

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

I have taken the front panel off the radio, switched the master switch off, switched the aerial amplifier off and switched the fridge off. I have then measured the current through each fuse. The only fuse showing any current flowing through it is the one for the alarm and tracker. This shows about 170 mA (+/- 10-20 mA) running through it. If I disconnect the tracker it drops to about 110-120 mA, and if I disconnect the alarm as well, it drops to 0. I can't isolate the tracker as it is powered through the alarm.

As a few have mentioned, both the alarm and tracker have their own internal batteries - which I suppose are intended to keep them going for a few hours or days in the event the battery is disconnected - but these seem to be kept on a trickle charge from the leisure battery so that they are always topped up. I wonder if they may be at fault and are drawing an excessive charge to try and charge them up? I could try replacing them and seeing if this helps but I am reluctant to go to the trouble and expense if I am not sure they are the problem.?

I have explored the idea of a solar panel, which I think would mask the problem rather than solve it, but would work. However, that would cost about £500 fitted, so it is more of a last resort in my book.

Any further thoughts?

Thanks

Andy

 

[andybrad]

Thanks, saint-spoon. I make that 60.48 AH, but the point is the same - 2-3 weeks between recharges is too short. I have also just replaced the battery, so the age of the battery shouldn't contribute much to the problem. It has also happened over the last couple of weeks, so temperatures have been relatively "normal" (don't want to start another thread on that subject, though!).

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

I have taken the front panel off the radio, switched the master switch off, switched the aerial amplifier off and switched the fridge off. I have then measured the current through each fuse. The only fuse showing any current flowing through it is the one for the alarm and tracker. This shows about 170 mA (+/- 10-20 mA) running through it. If I disconnect the tracker it drops to about 110-120 mA, and if I disconnect the alarm as well, it drops to 0. I can't isolate the tracker as it is powered through the alarm.

As a few have mentioned, both the alarm and tracker have their own internal batteries - which I suppose are intended to keep them going for a few hours or days in the event the battery is disconnected - but these seem to be kept on a trickle charge from the leisure battery so that they are always topped up. I wonder if they may be at fault and are drawing an excessive charge to try and charge them up? I could try replacing them and seeing if this helps but I am reluctant to go to the trouble and expense if I am not sure they are the problem.?

I have explored the idea of a solar panel, which I think would mask the problem rather than solve it, but would work. However, that would cost about £500 fitted, so it is more of a last resort in my book.

Any further thoughts?

Thanks

Andy

It seems you have found your culprits.

I wonder if the alarm and trackers internal batteries are in fact ok, Rechargeable batteries also have a finite life, so I wonder if they are now in need of replacement

You might be best asking the manufacturers if current drain is excessive, and what the internal batteries life expectancy is.

 

[MikeyW]

The battery in my Bailey was going flat over a couple of weeks in storage. The problem was the tracker. They replaced something in the tracker, but I'm not sure what. Now the battery stays charged even after a few months in storage over winter. So that's where I would be looking. Sorry I can't be more helpful with what was replaced.

Mike

 

[Beehpee]

With a "TRACKER" as opposed to a phantom tracker there are 2 types normally fitted to caravans, the type that incorporates an alarm and the type that doesn't, the type that doesn't is completely self powered and draws no current from the caravan at all, the type that includes the alarm is powered from the caravan but in the event of caravan battery going flat or being removed the internal battery takes over, obviously the internal battery would have a finite ability to power the tracker and once flat would need replacing, I can't lay my hands on expected current drain but I'll look it out later and then you can compare to what your getting with the phantom which I would expect to be something similar.

BP

 

[Hutch]

When my Phantom unit was draing the battery as other have said in two weeks, Phantom reset the unit remotley" By Magic" through the GPS system. IT didnt drain the btery after that and removing the radio front.It may be worth a phone call and ask Tracker

 

[Woodentop]

I don't know about other makes, but in Baileys they do not bother with a permanent supply to the radio. This means that it forgets its settings when you switch the caravan supply off but on the radios they use - JVC - the radio does not loose its memories. Good idea to check that before going digging.

Incidentally removing the front panel will not stop the radio drawing memory support current if it has a permanent supply - but that should be a milliamp or less at most.

 

[chrisn7]

There isn't normally a requirement for a permanent supply to the radio in a caravan. In cars its sometimes used to power something else via the radio. Occasionally there is an alarm led behind the faceplate, presumably to draw attention before a break-in, that the faceplate has been removed. In the past it was also used to power an electric aerial (which seemed quite the thing to have at the time!)

 

[MichaelE]

I don't know about other makes, but in Baileys they do not bother with a permanent supply to the radio. This means that it forgets its settings when you switch the caravan supply off but on the radios they use - JVC - the radio does not loose its memories. Good idea to check that before going digging.

Incidentally removing the front panel will not stop the radio drawing memory support current if it has a permanent supply - but that should be a milliamp or less at most.

Just a thought you must have a permanent supply to the radio? In a car the secondary feed is ignition controlled, you wont have that so everything in a caravan has a 12v feed and is controlled by an on off switch.There is a master switch which will turn everything off.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

There is a master switch which will turn everything off.

Unfortunately the master switch does NOT switch everything off in most caravans. Stupid calling it a master switch. :evil:

 

[Dustydog]

There is a master switch which will turn everything off.

Unfortunately the master switch does NOT switch everything off in most caravans. Stupid calling it a master switch. :evil:

My Bailey master switch turns everything off except the interior fridge light. The radio has no live separate feed.

 

[MichaelE]

There is a master switch which will turn everything off.

Unfortunately the master switch does NOT switch everything off in most caravans. Stupid calling it a master switch. :evil:

My Bailey master switch turns everything off except the interior fridge light. The radio has no live separate feed.

But it must have a live feed to work? So where does it get its power from?

 

[Hutch]

My Coachman, switches everything off apart from Fridge, alarm, radio and awning light. :woohoo: