What size gas bottles?

[RogerL]

Here’s the link
http://www.safefill.co.uk/

Theres advise to have them inspected at set periods but Safefill have no process to do it. And then you draw a blank on who is competent to do it against what criteria. The Flogas Gaslight bottles are similar construction but are exchanged for a full one and the empty is returned to Flogas. Morrison’s are a key locator for fillling but not all Morrison’s will allow refilling. Our local Morrison’s sell auto gas but don’t allow filling lpg cylinders.

http://www.safefill.co.uk/

Don't Safefill cylinders need to be replaced after 15 years - not sure how that's enforced.

 

[Beachball]

What recognised standard is your adaptor kit made to. I thought it was illegal to refill a Calor cylinder as these are only rented and the terms prohibit refilling.

I think the lady at the garage was correct and the manager in default.
https://www.calor.co.uk/news-and-vi...refilling-of-lpg-cylinders-at-petrol-stations

I am in agreement with you .

 

[otherclive]

Don't Safefill cylinders need to be replaced after 15 years - not sure how that's enforced.

The website refers to inspection at 10 years but when I contacted them they couldn’t give any details of who, where and what the inspection comprised. It’s a gap in the approach. The bottles as are Gaslight are robust and clearly are used around the world but I suspect Safefill don’t want to set up a system which is unlikely to be used in practice.
I agree if there is a replacement periodicity how it would be controlled is not clear. Perhaps like caravan tyres just keep banging on about tyre age and the importance of replacing them.

Our local Morrison’s stopped auto gas supply as I don’t think it was a big seller, but when they did the forecourt signs made it clear no refilling of bottles. Probably discouraged as there were Travellers ad hoc sites at the time and they might have used these adaptors to fill standard exchange type bottles. But you couldn’t expect forecourt staff to know the whys and wherefore of what’s a satisfactory refillable bottle and what is an unsatisfactory one.

 

[Parksy]

Ok point taken thats the last i will say on the matter

If you check out the forum guidelines you'll see that either promoting or describing any illegal activity on this forum is prohibited.
For that reason I've deleted the posts that describe such activity.

 

[Beachball]

The website refers to inspection at 10 years but when I contacted them they couldn’t give any details of who, where and what the inspection comprised. It’s a gap in the approach. The bottles as are Gaslight are robust and clearly are used around the world but I suspect Safefill don’t want to set up a system which is unlikely to be used in practice.
I agree if there is a replacement periodicity how it would be controlled is not clear. Perhaps like caravan tyres just keep banging on about tyre age and the importance of replacing them.

Our local Morrison’s stopped auto gas supply as I don’t think it was a big seller, but when they did the forecourt signs made it clear no refilling of bottles. Probably discouraged as there were Travellers ad hoc sites at the time and they might have used these adaptors to fill standard exchange type bottles. But you couldn’t expect forecourt staff to know the whys and wherefore of what’s a satisfactory refillable bottle and what is an unsatisfactory one.

I think that the same at our Morrison forecourt it stopped auto gas supply because been in there and they did not know anything i was told to go to the customer service desk .

 

[Buckman]

Who does the periodic inspection? Safefill when I questioned this had no answer. They had no agents authorised to inspect the bottles and presumably recertify them for a period ( how long) of future use. When I had an involvement in grp gas bottles for pilot oxygen there was an inspection and test regime for the bottles at a set periodicity. Unlike Calor, Flogas and Camping Gaz Safefill have no such approach.

At our local large Morrison’s there is a sign indicating that gas bottles are not to be filled.

Even Calor may not have a set regime for inspection as how can they? A consumer could have a bottle for 3 - 4 years before refilling it. Do they inspect every bottle regardless of how long it has been out which could vary from weeks to years?
We have an empty Calorlite bottle in the garage and that has been in the garage for a couple of years. I guess there are many Calor bottle out there that are well past their inspection date.

 

[otherclive]

Even Calor may not have a set regime for inspection as how can they? A consumer could have a bottle for 3 - 4 years before refilling it. Do they inspect every bottle regardless of how long it has been out which could vary from weeks to years?
We have an empty Calorlite bottle in the garage and that has been in the garage for a couple of years. I guess there are many Calor bottle out there that are well past their inspection date.

Best you ask Calor what their inspection and test regime is. You have a point in that there will be old rusted partly filled Calor and Flogas cylinders out there. What could be done about them? But they present little risk.
But I am assured that when an empty bottle is exchanged it is covered by whatever procedure Calor, and Flogas use before they refill it and reissue it. There’s absolutely no supplier control over “own fill” bottles is there?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Even Calor may not have a set regime for inspection as how can they? A consumer could have a bottle for 3 - 4 years before refilling it. Do they inspect every bottle regardless of how long it has been out which could vary from weeks to years?
We have an empty Calorlite bottle in the garage and that has been in the garage for a couple of years. I guess there are many Calor bottle out there that are well past their inspection date.

Because Calor do their own filling of bottles they have they check every bottle when its returned for a refill. A check is not the same as full inspection.

If a bottle is passed its inspection date it is taken out of circulation and either sent for full inspection or scraping.
If a bottle is in date, it is visually checked any signs of damage or misuse its taken out of service.
Providing a bottle is in date and appears to be sound, its refilled to its tare + charge weight.

That happens every time with a Calor cylinder so there is a very low risk that a faulty bottle would be reintroduced into circulation.

There will be old cylinders in circulation that have not been returned for a refill, but they are old becasue they have not been used very much, and that also means they are not very likely to have worn out valves so the risk is still very low.

 

[otherclive]

Because Calor do their own filling of bottles they have they check every bottle when its returned for a refill. A check is not the same as full inspection.

If a bottle is passed its inspection date it is taken out of circulation and either sent for full inspection or scraping.
If a bottle is in date, it is visually checked any signs of damage or misuse its taken out of service.
Providing a bottle is in date and appears to be sound, its refilled to its tare + charge weight.

That happens every time with a Calor cylinder so there is a very low risk that a faulty bottle would be reintroduced into circulation.

There will be old cylinders in circulation that have not been returned for a refill, but they are old becasue they have not been used very much, and that also means they are not very likely to have worn out valves so the risk is still very low.

Thanks Prof. That’s one given reason why Calorlite removed from service as too many were found to be damaged on return and then had to be scrapped.

 

[Gafferbill]

Familiarity breeds contempt it seems on filling station forecourts.....unbelievable how someone can rig up a bottle filling DIY setup which is totally illegal on several counts and feel so at ease with their actions that they post about it on a public forum !!
Yes I have heard others are doing this but it is undeniably dangerous and why it is illegal in the first place.

 

[Buckman]

Best you ask Calor what their inspection and test regime is. You have a point in that there will be old rusted partly filled Calor and Flogas cylinders out there. What could be done about them? But they present little risk.
But I am assured that when an empty bottle is exchanged it is covered by whatever procedure Calor, and Flogas use before they refill it and reissue it. There’s absolutely no supplier control over “own fill” bottles is there?

As a matter of interest, do you know what they actually do when inspecting a bottle? If not, no worries! 🙂

 

[otherclive]

As a matter of interest, do you know what they actually do when inspecting a bottle? If not, no worries! 🙂

The could use the mk 1 eyeball to weed out rough ones, ultrasonics would detect cracks and wall thinning due to corrosion this could be automated and best done when the bottles have had some cleaning.
They are unlikely to Acoustic Emission tests as this requires the cylinder to be pressurised to quite a high pressure in order to detect the emissions as a crack propagates. I used AE as part of a NDT development to assess the condition and safety of very large 3000 psi air cylinders so they could be retained in situ. Several cylinders were tested to destruction using water pressure. One was tested to destruction using air pressure. We didn’t endear ourselves to the range staff at Shoeburyness after scattering steel shrapnel over the adjacent non magnetic fusing range. C’est la vie😂

 

[Dustydog]

This is a direct extract from Calor’s own website. Hope this answers all questions.
Also there is the British Compressed Gases Association. Well worth a read. I believe Calor are an accredited member and do their own testing??

Gafferbill summed it all up most succinctly👏👏👍👍

What is the Calor 7 point safety check on cylinders?

1. The shell of each cylinder is visually inspected as it enters the filling area.
2. The base of each cylinder is visually inspected.
3. The valve and the tare disc retest date of each cylinder is visually inspected.
4. The gasket of each cylinder is inspected/replaced as required.
5. The cylinder is leak tested as it goes though the filling process
6. The valve is leak tested after the filling process
7. The weight of the filled cylinder is rechecked at the end of the filling process.

Assuming a cylinder passes the above tests, it is then sealed/clipped to indicate that it has been filled safely and has passed our safety and quality checks.
If a cylinder fails inspection at any point, it is set aside for further inspection. It is then either sent to our refurbishment plant or degassed and destroyed.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Significant element of that process can be automated to remove human error.