Whats your mileage?

[ProfJohnL]

There have been a number of recent threads across the forum where the discussion has been about tow cars, and the need for the owner to perhaps consider the number of solo miles vs towing miles we do each year which might have a bearing on car choice.

To help us all get a real handle on caravan usage and thus the need for the Would you like to supply your annual mileage figure and the number of miles you towed?

The rationalle:

One of the most recent threads has been about electric and hybrid cars and their suitability for towing especially range and costs when the electrical side has been exhausted, and as we are likely to see more cars using this type of technology, I think it might be useful to find out what mileages some of our contributors and readers actually do.

The Dept for Transports has published some statistics for 2016

https://www.licencebureau.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/road-use-statistics.pdf
and its quite surprising reading.

For many years 12000 miles per year was considered to be the average annual private mileage, but it seems that has been progressively dropping and in 2016 it was only about 7500 miles per Annum.

What the statistics don't show is the number of caravanners, and how their mileage breaks down into solo vs towing. In calculations I have done I have made assumptions that caravanners will towing for about 10% of their annual mileage - but is that reasonable?

There will inevitably be some wide variations between caravanners, some may only go out once a year, others may be doing a lot of weekend trips, but if we are to be able to make any sense of energy costs especially of electrical based systems we need to get a better statistical base line and levels of certainty to be able to factor in caravanning into the design of the energy supply infrastructure.

 

[KeefySher]

Can see where you are coming from, but unsure how valid it will be.

I have been driving for 40 years, all over the world, on and off road, towing various things including caravans, and had a MH for 9 years.

My total mileage is above 2.6million. That averages 65k miles per year.

Some years I did 120k miles plus.

Some years I did 14k miles.

Some years it was long distance weekly commuting, up Monday back Thursday night. The single journey was 353 miles, with 11 miles from accommodation to site.

As I keep records of towing the caravan, it's done 6500 miles in 2 years, but spent time off the road due to poor quality. Tow single journeys range from 70 to 400+.

The MH did 60k miles in 9 years. Some years it went round europe for a month, others it sat for months not being used.

In the early days it was company / hire cars so drove what i was given. Since I went independent I've driven Mercedes E, S & GLE vehicles, primarily for comfort and survivability and high mileage journeys. I've towed the caravan with the S & GLE.

Up til 2003 it was petrol, since then diesel. About 400k miles in diesel.

The thing I need is range, at speed, in comfort and survivability in event of smack. Hybrid / electric are not on the radar for my use yet.

For our family second car, the next will probably be a Hybrid.

Often do ski trips where 900 miles in single journey is the norm.

HTH

 

[DaveA1]

My mileage is usually about 10,000 a year, That consist of about 2,256 miles going to work and back two days a week. I will have towed about 2,000 towing by the years end, the rest is solo when away in the van, say another 1,500 When home accounts for the rest, general purpose, lets say. If I retired completely that would put my annual mileage down to about figure in the report.

 

[SamandRose]

For each of the past two years we have towed for roughly 3000 miles, whilst my non-towing miles have been about 25k.So the Prof's estimate of 10% isn't far off.

Our longest single towing journey has been 550 miles (Calais to the Swiss Alps) and closer to home, the 250 miles from the Midlands to Northumberland. My longest solo journey in recent months has been 840 miles in two days (Midlands to Aberdeen and return).

Granted, these journeys are the exception rather than the rule but the fact is, we still need to do them from time to time and therefore, for the foreseeable future, diesel is still the answer for us.

Our second car is a petrol-powered VW Polo that covers around 8k miles per year (not towing). An argument could probably be made fairly soon for replacing it with hybrid or even full electric, but it will take a long time to make up for the purchase price. Our plan at the moment is to hang onto it until it dies.

 

[Brasso530]

Usually we average about 8,000 miles a year solo,as we both walk/cycle to work most days.This year we will of towed about 1900 miles,which is slightly higher than last year.
Personally I'll stick with diesel cars for a good few years yet,being a car mechanic I can't see full electric cars being considered for a good 10 yrs for most average driver let alone towing.We will all be using them eventually,at the moment the infrastructure just isn't there or anywhere near,just look at other thread on motorway services parking and then add in you need a charging point at each one,and how long you'll need to be there to get enough charge in to get you on your way.
I do agree that the batteries etc will become smaller/better thus allowing a good journey plausible.

 

[Martin24]

Average annual mileage over the past four years has been 5200 miles.

Probably about 2000 miles towing each year.

Of course we have many more considerations when buying a car with the main objective of the new tow car to make me 100% independent as well as the considerations of the tow car. There has been a lot of planning involved with getting a drive from wheelchair vehicle, room for all the family and hopefully good towing performance as well.

Not an easy task but hopefully we'll have got it right. MPG, emissions and the like are way down the bottom of the list.

 

[Jaydug]

The older I get the less miles I drive. This last year I've driven my tow car only 5820 of which 2130 were towing miles - so about 36% of the total mileage. Contrast that with the early 2000's. My towed miles in 2003 was 8650miles - and no idea what the solo miles would be. Since I started touring in 1965 I've kept a log of our caravanning trips with totals of nights away and miles covered. To date I've towed just over 144000 miles and spent 2760 night in the vans..

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you to those that have posted so far.

Kefysher and Jaydug
I have no great expectation about the data that will posted here will be statistically significant, it will simply be far too smaller sample, and the cohort will be rather biased, as I suspect it the posters will most likely be the hardened caravanners who do more towing mileage than average. But it will have some use as it will indicate the higher usage range and that should be of interest to car makers who should be looking at the range of possible uses their products will be used for.

I only asked for annual domestic mileage, so principally to enable annual costings to be established. This deliberately excludes commuting which is usually paid for by the employer.

Dave1
Your annual mileage is closer to the average, But I am surprised at how much towing you do - keep it up.

SamandRose,
Your post raises an interesting consideration, I hadn't specifically asked for second car statistics, but they do actually form part of the annual mileage, and when taken into consideration it will depress the percentage of towed mileage. This could be an important argument in favour of the Hybrid technology that fares less well when towing.

Brasso530
I suspect we will see a much bigger take up of alternative power technologies and the point at which electric tow vehicles may come sooner than you think. I agree teh infrastructure of charging points is not wide enough at the moment, but it is growing. And battery capacity is getting better, and charging is also likely to to improve as new technologies allow faster charge rates. I have read somewhere that with a new battery technology it should be possible for some vehicles to accept a 30kW charge in about 5 mins - Still a little longer than filling a tank of diesel, but a much more realistic for the longer journey.

Martin,
In the spirit of the DDA we should of course consider such cases, but in fairness its a very small percentage of the towing fraternity, that has to choose such a vehicle for such specific reasons.Your particular needs are rather specialised, and untypical - But no less important.

 

[KeefySher]

I only asked for annual domestic mileage, so principally to enable annual costings to be established. This deliberately excludes commuting which is usually paid for by the employer.

Commuting is not paid for by the employer. Commuting is from your place of residence to the point of employment as detailed in your contract of employment if an employee. The Gov reckons this is 7 miles daily, I kid you not.

If self employed or your business is registered at your domestic address travel costs from the door are currently a legitimate business cost and are chargeable to that entity at HMRC rates. Unless your customer is HMGov or public funded organisation since April this year. From next April those costs are no longer considered a business expense and must be paid out of taxed earnings.

If an employee and you work temporarily at another place your employer can claim those costs against tax. For 2 years.

So if that is how HMGov doesn't understand business, especially small businesses; what hope is there they understand future needs of transport via new technologies?

 

[Martin24]

As with SamandRose swmbo has the second car which is a 1.2 Corsa purchased new last year. The plan there is to keep it until it drops. Preferably until J finishes work. (17 years or so). That car covers about 14,000 a year including 4, 700 mile round trips to her parent's each year. It's used for nearly all journeys that don't include me and of course work.

 

[Hutch]

In the last 3 years since I retired we have avaraged 14,k a year, with an average towing milege incuded in this of 3000 a year. This has changed since my retirment, when we would average about the same yearly mileage of 14k but would be towing an average of 6ooo per year, as I used to go to France every 12 weeks for a month. This was done for the 4 years before I retired.

 

[otherclive]

Since January 2017 towed 2400 miles with another 250 miles planned between now and end of the year.
Skoda Superb has done approx 2500 miles solo. since April 2017 and I estimate it would be only 3500 if I estimated it since January 2017 as it is mainly used for towing, with solo longer drives to relatives and occasional skip runs.
Nissan Note is doing a steady 5000 mile pa. whatever.

Long gone are the days of weekly drives to Cumbria for work!

 

[emmerson]

If the figure of 7500 pa, and you have a newish car, then surely it would be cheaper to travel by taxi?
Unless you're like my neighbour who doesn't include depreciation in his running costs!

 

[otherclive]

If the figure of 7500 pa, and you have a newish car, then surely it would be cheaper to travel by taxi?
Unless you're like my neighbour who doesn't include depreciation in his running costs!

Whose post are you referring to? It’s not clear.

 

[Raywood]

The cars annual mileage varies quite bit between about 9,000 and just over 11,000 for last few years. The towed mileage is even more variable as having to travel from Glasgow area to the South Coast we do near 500 miles just to get the ferry but do not go every year.
In the year we went to Spain and France it would probably have been very high although I did not keep a note. We did tow down to Plymouth though to catch the ferry and went from Santandeer to Biaritz with detours on the way back up so the trip itself probably ran up 2,00 miles.
This year we are looking at something around 2,500 as we have not been doing regular long distance touring but did reach South Wales. Lat year was probably a bit higher at around 3,000.

 

[DaveA1]

.

I only asked for annual domestic mileage, so principally to enable annual costings to be established. This deliberately excludes commuting which is usually paid for by the employer.

Dave1
Your annual mileage is closer to the average, But I am surprised at how much towing you do - keep it up.
.

My commuting is not paid for by my employer. I pay that.
I work two days a week, and my employer is kind enough to let me chose which two, Monday-Tuesday or Thursday-Friday so get to go away 7 nights Wednesday to Wednesday.
Counting next week I've had 7 holidays this year Once The Lakes, Twice North Wales, Twice Norfolk, Once Cornwall and once Dorset. First End of January Last end of October.
Bought ourselves a nearly new van two years ago, not to use it would be a waste of money.
PS SWMBO was saying she thinks this will be the last one this year, we'll see

 

[ProfJohnL]

.

I only asked for annual domestic mileage, so principally to enable annual costings to be established. This deliberately excludes commuting which is usually paid for by the employer.

Dave1
Your annual mileage is closer to the average, But I am surprised at how much towing you do - keep it up.
.

My commuting is not paid for by my employer. I pay that.
I work two days a week, and my employer is kind enough to let me chose which two, Monday-Tuesday or Thursday-Friday so get to go away 7 nights Wednesday to Wednesday.
Counting next week I've had 7 holidays this year Once The Lakes, Twice North Wales, Twice Norfolk, Once Cornwall and once Dorset. First End of January Last end of October.
Bought ourselves a nearly new van two years ago, not to use it would be a waste of money.
PS SWMBO was saying she thinks this will be the last one this year, we'll see

I'm sorry i used the wrong phrase,
For commuting read commercial traveling.

 

[Craigyoung]

Morning all .

Well since we got our car in November last year it's coming up to a year since we've had that , since then we have done approx' seven 7,ooo mile and I've worked out roughly 1,2oo for towing that's including our holiday in Holland but the ferry took quite a bit of that mileage .
If it had been the previous year you could have put 2,ooo extra miles on full France !
Our second car which is the A2B car Citroen C1, we've had that for about 4 years and haven't even done 9000 miles in it yet .

As my commute to work is my bike and I run there and back 5 miles so 2nd car very rarely used.

Plus been on the buses myself and my family get free travel so if we need to go anywhere we can jump on a bus or train for free and saving the mileage .

Even when we exchanged our Toyota we had 9 years out of that and that only went in with 55,ooo on the clock .

Craig

 

[otherclive]

If the figure of 7500 pa, and you have a newish car, then surely it would be cheaper to travel by taxi?
Unless you're like my neighbour who doesn't include depreciation in his running costs!

Whose post are you referring to? It’s not clear.

Out of interest I had a look at whether taking taxi would be cheaper. When my father had to cease driving for a spell following an eye operation his local taxis came to well over £100 per week and he cut back on where he went to. I've not suffered too much deprecation over the years as it was always touch and go whether we could afford car, or caravan/holidays so until I retired in 2000 cars were mainly over three years old when purchased and so would have suffered the majority of their deprecation. I have never brand new car (except for a company one for short while). The nearest then that I can look at is in April 2014 I bought pre reg Subaru which was some £3000 less than the best quotes for a brand new one. It was less than two week since it had been registered and had 74 miles on the clock. When I PE'd it some three years later with 30k depreciation had cost me £7k or £2333 per year. It's replacement was virtually a straight swop on price.

So if I look at my running costs including tyres, recovery etc and allowing £500 pa for unscheduled repairs it costs me £2250pa. Looking back at my car records over the years £500 is an over estimate as apart from my Disco2 most cars have been reliable. Ive not include things like brake fluid change, cam belt change etc which are time dependant or mileage dependant but are relative cheap or infrequent. So in round figures the running costs including depreciation are around £5000pa.

Now comes the taxi/public transport crunch. I visit the East Midlands to see my father about 8 times per year. Cheapest quoted taxi fare for the one day round trip is £463. So just on those journeys alone i would spend £3704. In the event of an emergency requiring more frequent visits the cost would be uncontrollable. Taking the train would give me three hours contact at a cost of £200 with a non flexible ticket or £300 with an open return. This includes taxis at both ends. It is impossible to do it in one day by National Express so a B&B would be required as well as local taxis.

So the old chestnut that "it would be cheaper by taxi" doesn't really hold water in my case. As the above figures don't include for any other journeys. Our previous car the Subaru took us to Poland, Czech, Germany and Spain. Hire car costs alone would have swamped the deprecation costs. Our second car (Nissan) is now nearing 11 years old, and again was not bought brand new. I calculate that it has cost around £500pa in deprecation and still has some asset value of around £1500 left. Repairs nil.

But like your neighbour I don't consider deprecation when purchasing cars as my philosophy has been to buy when required, or when the deal is best. However, the cost of car ownership pales into insignificance when compared to other life choices such as children, grandchildren and dogs. Those three areas really are deep money pits.

 

[emmerson]

If the figure of 7500 pa, and you have a newish car, then surely it would be cheaper to travel by taxi?
Unless you're like my neighbour who doesn't include depreciation in his running costs!

Whose post are you referring to? It’s not clear.

In the original post Prof said that the annual mileage had dropped from 12,000 to 7,500 in 2016.
My own mileage is usually around 12,000 spread between the camper van and towcar, with towed miles about 2,500/3,000.

 

[Dustydog]

Very valid subject Prof and one which has certainly focused our minds and wallet over the years.
Now we are retired our income has dropped but our personal mileage hasn't.
Our families are spread between Manchester Leeds Birmingham London and North Devon.
Our personal non towing mileage is usually between 10-12K pa.
Towing is approx. 6k pa.
Solo we use SWMBO Kia Cee'd which on long motorway journeys returns 60mpg regularly.
Towing with the Sorento we get 22-25mpg.
The road tax on the Cee'd is £30.00pa whilst the Sorento is £495.00pa.
We do need two cars although if I was honest most of the time we could get away with one.
If we downsized caravans then I would chuck the Sorento and buy a more economic tug. But then there is the capital outlay and subsequent depreciation??
I conclude as the Cee'd has a 7 year warranty we are likely to keep it that long.
The Sorento owes us nothing. It's ongoing depreciation is negligible to us so I shall keep it until it expires permanently, run it into the ground if you like. It is armchair driving with all the whistles and bells.
Additionally we still have the Wyoming 8 years on even though previously we used to change caravans every 3 or 4 years. Why you may ask?
Well the Wyoming still ticks the boxes and does what we want for no real cost or depreciation from our view point.

How about you Prof?

 

[emmerson]

If the figure of 7500 pa, and you have a newish car, then surely it would be cheaper to travel by taxi?
Unless you're like my neighbour who doesn't include depreciation in his running costs!

Whose post are you referring to? It’s not clear.

Out of interest I had a look at whether taking taxi would be cheaper. When my father had to cease driving for a spell following an eye operation his local taxis came to well over £100 per week and he cut back on where he went to. I've not suffered too much deprecation over the years as it was always touch and go whether we could afford car, or caravan/holidays so until I retired in 2000 cars were mainly over three years old when purchased and so would have suffered the majority of their deprecation. I have never brand new car (except for a company one for short while). The nearest then that I can look at is in April 2014 I bought pre reg Subaru which was some £3000 less than the best quotes for a brand new one. It was less than two week since it had been registered and had 74 miles on the clock. When I PE'd it some three years later with 30k depreciation had cost me £7k or £2333 per year. It's replacement was virtually a straight swop on price.

So if I look at my running costs including tyres, recovery etc and allowing £500 pa for unscheduled repairs it costs me £2250pa. Looking back at my car records over the years £500 is an over estimate as apart from my Disco2 most cars have been reliable. Ive not include things like brake fluid change, cam belt change etc which are time dependant or mileage dependant but are relative cheap or infrequent. So in round figures the running costs including depreciation are around £5000pa.

Now comes the taxi/public transport crunch. I visit the East Midlands to see my father about 8 times per year. Cheapest quoted taxi fare for the one day round trip is £463. So just on those journeys alone i would spend £3704. In the event of an emergency requiring more frequent visits the cost would be uncontrollable. Taking the train would give me three hours contact at a cost of £200 with a non flexible ticket or £300 with an open return. This includes taxis at both ends. It is impossible to do it in one day by National Express so a B&B would be required as well as local taxis.

So the old chestnut that "it would be cheaper by taxi" doesn't really hold water in my case. As the above figures don't include for any other journeys. Our previous car the Subaru took us to Poland, Czech, Germany and Spain. Hire car costs alone would have swamped the deprecation costs. Our second car (Nissan) is now nearing 11 years old, and again was not bought brand new. I calculate that it has cost around £500pa in deprecation and still has some asset value of around £1500 left. Repairs nil.

But like your neighbour I don't consider deprecation when purchasing cars as my philosophy has been to buy when required, or when the deal is best. However, the cost of car ownership pales into insignificance when compared to other life choices such as children, grandchildren and dogs. Those three areas really are deep money pits.

Well done Clive! Like you, I've never had a new car; for the last twentyodd years I've run classic V8 Range Rovers, bought cheap, kept for three or four years then scrapped. Fuel cost is helped by running LPG. However, my current RR is probably the best deal I've ever done, as I appears to appreciate year on year! I have spent a bit on this one, as I've had it now for almost eight years, but my insurers are happy to accept an agreed value figure which is four times what I paid for it! If I keep another two years without major spend, I might actually make money on it!

 

[otherclive]

Emerson
Not surprised to see the RR appreciating as they are sought after cars, and really nice too. I've only had one car make money. That was an E30 BMW 325 M sport. I had people phoning from all over UK and NI. The chap that bought it paid cash without even wanting to be taken for a drive. I thought them that I should have priced it even higher as at 14 years old it was still winning concourse awards.

 

[Beachball]

My car is 25 months old with 13.500 miles only

 

[ProfJohnL]

My car is 25 months old with 13.500 miles only

Very Good Beachball , but please bounce back and tell us your annual mileage and how much of it is towing?