Wheel Bearing Replacement

[Gafferbill]

Since most drum brakes are now fitted to higher mileage and heavier commercial vehicles....I think you will find that they are serviced by the easy removal of the drum in the manner I described.

Lighter vehicles, including private cars, usually only have drum brakes on the rear axle, if at all.

The braking bias is to the front disc brakes and usually means the rear brakes are good for around 40-50000 miles before anything other than inspection is needed at service points.

Drum brakes in these applications and caravan drum brakes do not need constant stripping down unless a fault is detected.

They may well have a similar arrangement to Al-Ko in that the bearing has to be disturbed to remove the drum

...My point was that this type of design is not supposed to be constantly stripped down.

 

[dougie_374468830]

My van has an service history as long as your arm yet the drums had never been removed, just inspected through the peep hole.Of course the shoe lining broke up under my ownership and the van was off the road for three days while i wrestled to get the drum off. If it had been off every year i wouldnt have had all that time wasted unable to make a crust.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

with due respect to anyone who thinks they know better, dougie's last post just about sums it up for me:> of course the drums have to come off to fully service and inspect the brakes mileage is immaterial if fact I would go so far as to say a van that spends most of it's time stood in a open air storage yard is more likely to have brake problems due to rusting than one that is consistantly on the move.

it seems obvious to me that a once a year look though the peep hole will do little to establish the true condition of the brakes and correct operation of the reverse cams. I also reject the assumtion that because the bearings are sealed for life there is no need to remove the drums and no the inner race will not turn on the axel if a smear of copper grease is used on reassembly because the inner race is held firmly by the rather large one shot nylon lock nut that is tightend to a high torque.

I have posted at least 6 times on the subject of burning clutches when reversing suggesting a probable cause could be faulty van brakes alas as yet no one seems to agree, but consider this:- the car cluch does not change direction in reverse it allways goes the same way as does the first motion shaft in the car gearbox, the weight of the car and van do not change going either forwards or backwards in most cases the outfits in question have no problems starting on an incline but reversing on flat ground burns the clutch. this is a classic case of poorly serviced van brakes in my opinion the big question is how the hell would you know if the brakes have never been stripped down and serviced properly.

 

[RogerL]

To quote coilin-yorkshire, above:-

"it seems obvious to me that a once a year look though the peep hole will do little to establish the true condition of the brakes and correct operation of the reverse cams"

Then why do Al-Ko publish this under annual maintenance with no public reference to annual strip-down.

It seems obvious to me that having BOTH peep hole inspection and strip-down inspections as annual requirements is contradictory.

If only Al-Ko Germany, where the chassis was designed, would comment!

 

[SteveW77]

Certainly al hydraulic braking systems should be stripped and physically inspected. You cannot find a weeping wheel cylinder by viewing through a slot in the back plate. Of course you could always wait until the cylinder fails completely and hope that when you lose your brake pedal that you are not at the top of a steep hill or approaching a T junction. The same principle must apply to a mechanical system as fitted to caravans, you cannot see a rusted linkage with out a complete strip down, waiting until it become obvious may well be to late.

Steve W

 

[extrucker1]

hello all, are caravan brakes set up the same as a car drum brake? on a car rear brake you have a leading shoe and a trailing shoe. the leading shoe normerly wears a bit more because it makes contact with the drum first. when looking through the spy hole, what shoe are you looking at. just a thought. ray.

 

[Guest]

There are undoubtedly a lot of contradictions in what ALKO state in their various publications.

Yes, it is a good idea for any owner who is not familar with what he is attempting, to leave any maintenance to the 'experts' at annual service time. However, there is also a case for making the system easily accesible for those owners who have the knowledge, and confidence to do their own maintenance. The fact that ALKO have deliberately not done so, suggest that commercial objectives are the dominant factor. If H&S was the prime consideration then all automobile manufacturers would ensure all car bonnets had coded locks so that nothing could be touched, while as we know the DIY market thrives in this industry, and cars are used far more than caravans. ALKO have even in their infinite wisdom placed the grease nipples for the hitchlock underneath the towhitch and hidden behind the brake cables, just so that you have to lie on the ground and fiddle to get the front nipple accesible. Caravans of old had the nipples on the top of the hitch, easily accessible, so you do wonder who actually designed the thing and the prime reasons for it. They also tell you umpteen times that drilling, cutting or doing anything to the chassis will invalidate the warranty. Not that anyone would ever wish to do so, but what warranty are we actually talking about? As soon as the chassis gets a body on top, then the caravan manufacturer accepts the full warranty, which in turn passes to you via the dealer, so I am curious as to how many warranty claims are actually made against ALKO. Again, to my mind it is another 'smoke and mirrors' trick. Looks good on paper, but not worth very much.

There is no doubt that ALKO make an awful lot of chassis and they are to all purposes, quite effective. However, maintenance free? No, not if it has to be stripped annually ( at a total service cost of

 

[Gafferbill]

Certainly al hydraulic braking systems should be stripped and physically inspected. You cannot find a weeping wheel cylinder by viewing through a slot in the back plate. Of course you could always wait until the cylinder fails completely and hope that when you lose your brake pedal that you are not at the top of a steep hill or approaching a T junction. The same principle must apply to a mechanical system as fitted to caravans, you cannot see a rusted linkage with out a complete strip down, waiting until it become obvious may well be to late.

Steve W

...... inspection of fluid levels on at least a weekly basis will highlight the loss of leaking brake fluid and the leaking of a wheel cylinder on a tow car.

On the caravan being aware of the efficiency of the handbrake every time it is applied is an inspection process.

Constant stripping down is not needed but neither is it illegal!

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

following on from SL's post regading torque wrenches no probably the average owner not conversed in diy maintenance would have one but anyone who does will have I would suggest the former would not wish to strip the brakes anyway.

 

[SteveW77]

As the last torque wrench I bought from Snap On was

 

[ProfJohnL]

In the aircraft, marine, nuclear, power and other industries, routine servicing of many complex systems is being dropped in favour of maintenance/service as required. This changes the emphasis from a planned maintenance process to a system that monitors the performance of a component or system, and when the indicators start to show drop in performance, but significantly before the system fails, the system is serviced. It is estimated that it has cut up to 40% of service costs in places, and it has actually enhanced reliability and productivity.

I have always wondered if the servicing schedule for the Alko chassis on caravans was too aggressive. But as Alko chassis are not only used for caravans, but also for some commercial trailers (very popular on the continent for the carriage of goods), then the instructions are probably devised to cover that type of duty;

An average caravan towing vehicle probably weighs about 1500Kg, but that load is split between 4 wheels and thus four brakes. (I do know that the brakes work load of the front and rear axles is different). So each wheel is braking about 375Kg. In a SA caravan there are only two wheels and brakes and as caravans for this size of car will be about 1250Kg, each wheel and brake is expected to brake 625Kg, thus on average each of the caravan brakes have to work 75 to 80% harder than the cars from the same speed. But caravans generally travels slower than solo cars so the brakes will not need to be used as much or as hard.

Cars are on average travelling between 10and 13K miles per year and caravans are probably averaging less than 3K miles per year ,

So allowing for those differences, and assuming that the technology and materials are comparable between car and caravan brakes. I would be surprised if a caravan braking system experiences a third of the wear compared to a car.

There are a lot of generalisation above, so to ere on the side of caution, caravan brakes should be considered to receive about half the wear of a cars, and on that basis an annual strip down is substantially more frequent than the wear and use characteristics should point to. A strip every two years would be closer to the mark.

There are other factors to consider, mainly the fact that most caravans are stationary for long periods, and lack of use can allow some corrosions to become a bigger problem.

But even so I think a two year cycle of strip and service is a more pragmatic approach.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

As the last torque wrench I bought from Snap On was

 

[SteveW77]

think a two year cycle of strip and service is a more pragmatic approach.

I would agree with John L on this point, as long as the work is carried out by someone competent.( Not necessarily a profesional )

However I am willing to bet that there are thousands of caravans out there that receive no attention at all on any time scale. These vans are only repaired when they fall apart.

These same people take that approach to their cars as well.

God alone knows how they can carry kids in them.

Steve W

 

[Gafferbill]

.......bear in mind that the Dept. of Transport accepts that all but a few cars are safe to tow a 750kg unbraked trailer obviously using the tow cars brakes alone.

So even a 1500kg caravan in John L's example above only has to cope with 750kgs using its own brakes.

It can of course easily cope with much more if the brakes are working efficiently.

Hand in hand with efficient working brakes on the tow car and caravan is the correct weight match of caravan to car.

Anything over an 85% match will compromise the braking performance no matter how experienced the driver and how well maintained the caravan brakes.

 

[dougie_374468830]

It would probably take me longer to gitter about with bungs, peepholes and torches than to remove the drum.

Remember i am checking for something going wrong not necessarily gone wrong, and i can check cables far more effectively with the drum off.

Removal of drums is part of the AWS service requirements so they come off. The customer is paying for an AWs service thats what he gets.

As an engineer in heavy industry (previous life) I despair at the frankly amateurish practices carried out by those who should know better as they hammer away at hubs etc.The term `shock loading`is alien to them.Or the use of an induction heater when fitting bearings, instead they press away seeing how far up the gauge they can get. "Ha ha got 4 ton on that one" in best goofy tones.

On a bit of a rant this morning cos last night i had a guy at the door wanting his caravan (2007 Bailey) serviced, He had been chased by his dealer because he had been doing his own work on it and wanted some warranty work done before it ran out. He had the gall to ask me to stamp his book for previous years and i could put in the claim. His ability was obvious after a couple of questions.

Moderator note: Personal insulting comment removed

 

[antrimboy]

Stamping his book wouldn't have stood any ground anyway. Where warranty work is concerned, caravan manufacturers ask for Invoices - and this is an obvious case in point.

 

[xtrailman]

It would probably take me longer to gitter about with bungs, peepholes and torches than to remove the drum.

Remember i am checking for something going wrong not necessarily gone wrong, and i can check cables far more effectively with the drum off.

Removal of drums is part of the AWS service requirements so they come off. The customer is paying for an AWs service thats what he gets.

As an engineer in heavy industry (previous life) I despair at the frankly amateurish practices carried out by those who should know better as they hammer away at hubs etc.The term `shock loading`is alien to them.Or the use of an induction heater when fitting bearings, instead they press away seeing how far up the gauge they can get. "Ha ha got 4 ton on that one" in best goofy tones.

On a bit of a rant this morning cos last night i had a guy at the door wanting his caravan (2007 Bailey) serviced, He had been chased by his dealer because he had been doing his own work on it and wanted some warranty work done before it ran out. He had the gall to ask me to stamp his book for previous years and i could put in the claim. His ability was obvious after a couple of questions.

Moderator note: Personal insulting comment removed

Will done moderator, i did find it crude myself.

 

[Guest]

I am afraid I find Warranties with things like caravans a bit of a misnomer. To get the warranty to remain valid you have to get the van serviced?? every year by an approved dealership. If the warranty for water ingress perhaps lasts for 5 years then you have paid approximately

 

[dougie_374468830]

It would probably take me longer to gitter about with bungs, peepholes and torches than to remove the drum.

Remember i am checking for something going wrong not necessarily gone wrong, and i can check cables far more effectively with the drum off.

Removal of drums is part of the AWS service requirements so they come off. The customer is paying for an AWs service thats what he gets.

As an engineer in heavy industry (previous life) I despair at the frankly amateurish practices carried out by those who should know better as they hammer away at hubs etc.The term `shock loading`is alien to them.Or the use of an induction heater when fitting bearings, instead they press away seeing how far up the gauge they can get. "Ha ha got 4 ton on that one" in best goofy tones.

On a bit of a rant this morning cos last night i had a guy at the door wanting his caravan (2007 Bailey) serviced, He had been chased by his dealer because he had been doing his own work on it and wanted some warranty work done before it ran out. He had the gall to ask me to stamp his book for previous years and i could put in the claim. His ability was obvious after a couple of questions.

Moderator note: Personal insulting comment removed

my apologies

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oh Boy

Warranties and guarantees again!

Only the seller is responsible for the Warranty under SoGA. It is a certification of the condition of the product at the time of sale. A warranty does stipulate or require regular servicing. Warranty work only corrects for defects that were present at the time of sale.

Manufacturers Guarantees are different. These say what the manufacture will do in the event of a product failure. The manufacture who is the guarantor can specify what conditions must be met to keep the guarantee in place. Regular approved servicing is usually one of them.

Extended Guarantees are insurance policies. And like the manufacturers guarantee they can stipulate what must be carried out and who can do it to keep the policy active. Incidentally such policies make money for the manufacture!

 

[Guest]

A lot of this comes back to what is defined as 'Approved Servicing' with the emphasis on the word 'Servicing'. I have looked at 2 separate 'Service Schedules' from 2 different dealerships and note what is actually done. Apart from taking of the brake drums and readjust the brakes, everything else is merely a 'check'. No actual servicing of any equipment is carried out. The fridge is certainly not removed and the burner cleaned, unless you instruct and pay extra. Similarly with the fire. So you could easily come to the end of a few years servcicing, and actually nothing has been serviced, so technically the manufacturer of your fridge etc could state the guarantee is not valid.

What needs to be done is the idea of a caravan 'service' being replaced by what our motorhome cousins call a 'habitation check' with the emphasis on 'check', and a proper service schedule introduced. Yes, it will be more expensive but at least customers would be more confident that they have actually had work done, not merely somebody wandering around and ticking boxes.

I still feel that the current so called Warranties given with caravans are not worth as much as maybe expected, and paying out large sums of money each year to maintain that is not economic sense.

 

[Comeinhandy]

This is how I replace ALKO bearings, not too difficult actually:
https://youtu.be/hEnAUpXpD1c

 

[colin-yorkshire]

deleted

 

[colin-yorkshire]

last post reported to mods as suspicious do not open link, just in case.

NEW MEMBER, FIRST POST, IN A THREAD 6 YEARS OLD. SOUND FAMILIAR , :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Moderator Note: Post referred to removed, user banned.

thanks Damian.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,

You seem to have included a hyperlink "Sound Familiar" It just takes us to another PC page is that correct?