Which to do first - tyres or service ?

[Clydesider]

Hi guys,
As we start to dry out, and see a bit of sun ( well, in Scotland West Coast anyway) thoughts are now returning to getting ready for this year's season.......
I've booked the Mobile Service Engineer for his annual visit, but I know I need new tyres. Plan is for a mobile fitter to come to the 'van ( in storage yard),
So, does it matter which job is done first ?

 

[otherclive]

Hi guys,
As we start to dry out, and see a bit of sun ( well, in Scotland West Coast anyway) thoughts are now returning to getting ready for this year's season.......
I've booked the Mobile Service Engineer for his annual visit, but I know I need new tyres. Plan is for a mobile fitter to come to the 'van ( in storage yard),
So, does it matter which job is done first ?

Not really as you aren’t driving the caravan with old tyres. But make sure the wheels are balanced before fitting back on to the caravan.

 

[JTQ]

I would get the new tyres fitted pre service, as mover's clearance then will be checked for these, what you will have not what you had.

 

[Woodentop]

You 'know' that the van needs new tyres - how? There is no legal requirement for tyres to be changed on a caravan, so as long as they are legal - 1.6mm tread across the centre ¾ of the width and for the whole circumference - you are theoretically OK. However as the tyre spends most of its life standing still and under load there is a possibility that the tyre surface - particularly in the bottom of the tread grooves - could start to crack leading to delamination.

As there are no legal specs for the tyre per se the trade usually relies upon the age of the tyre and therein lies another quandary. A tyre life of 7 years always used to be the guide, but some (many?) dealers will now tell you 5 years and refuse to register your service if you don't agree to replacement (i.e. more profit for them). 5 years may be good advice if your van has budget tyres, but if you use good quality or even premium tyres I would suggest 7 years is probably safe. This of course assumes there are no other issues with the tyres such as potential blow-out lumps in the side walls, cuts anywhere on the surface, obvious uneven wear, air leaks etc., and that the caravan suspension is in good order.

It is your choice but I would suggest you wait until your MSE has done the service and see what he has to say about the tyres. If his advice is to change them (always change them in pairs) it gives you the opportunity to shop around for the most suitable tyre at the best price.

Per the comment in #3 above, I would doubt that the mover/tyre gap has ever been checked or adjusted since the mover was fitted. I know for a fact that none of mine have and my dealer is one of the best in the country! If the gap proves to be too tight (less than 20mm on a Powrtouch) with the new tyres fitted it is only two spanners and a bit of your time to adjust them yourself.*
(* Or if you have the tyres changed at home, a cup of good tea or coffee and some nice chocolate biscuits for the tyre fitter might get the job done for you?)

 

[otherclive]

I would get the new tyres fitted pre service, as mover's clearance then will be checked for these, what you will have not what you had.

Unless the tyres have done a decent mileage I doubt that the tread depth will have changed much. I can’t recall mover clearance being listed in the work schedules when my van was serviced. In fact movers were given no consideration unless I requested anything to be done.

 

[JTQ]

Unless the tyres have done a decent mileage I doubt that the tread depth will have changed much. I can’t recall mover clearance being listed in the work schedules when my van was serviced. In fact movers were given no consideration unless I requested anything to be done.

I suppose in this "industry" with its standards I should not be that surprised, but I am.

Thankfully I have been able to and done my own trailer servicing, to my standards.
Sadly, now on I will have to pass that task to others, thanks for the heads up of the poor scope of servicing to expect to face.
I take it they will make a professional job of at least ticking their schedule sheet and tendering an invoice?

 

[Clydesider]

I know they need changed as it was highlighted at last year's service that they were 7 years old. Good point about the mover clearance being set up on the new tyres though.
I presume the 'tyreon' bands don't present a problem to mobile fitters ?

 

[JTQ]

I presume the 'tyreon' bands don't present a problem to mobile fitters ?

Don't, the number of fitters able to do them these days is way lower than it had been, and some of them will not be prepared to do so, expect a marked extra charge.
My experience has also been some who take them on don't spend enough time to get them spaced correctly and this can take a lot of added balancing weight to mitigate.
I fortunately know a good man locally, you need to find one.

 

[Hutch]

You 'know' that the van needs new tyres - how? There is no legal requirement for tyres to be changed on a caravan, so as long as they are legal - 1.6mm tread across the centre ¾ of the width and for the whole circumference - you are theoretically OK. However as the tyre spends most of its life standing still and under load there is a possibility that the tyre surface - particularly in the bottom of the tread grooves - could start to crack leading to delamination.

As there are no legal specs for the tyre per se the trade usually relies upon the age of the tyre and therein lies another quandary. A tyre life of 7 years always used to be the guide, but some (many?) dealers will now tell you 5 years and refuse to register your service if you don't agree to replacement (i.e. more profit for them). 5 years may be good advice if your van has budget tyres, but if you use good quality or even premium tyres I would suggest 7 years is probably safe. This of course assumes there are no other issues with the tyres such as potential blow-out lumps in the side walls, cuts anywhere on the surface, obvious uneven wear, air leaks etc., and that the caravan suspension is in good order.

It is your choice but I would suggest you wait until your MSE has done the service and see what he has to say about the tyres. If his advice is to change them (always change them in pairs) it gives you the opportunity to shop around for the most suitable tyre at the best price.

Per the comment in #3 above, I would doubt that the mover/tyre gap has ever been checked or adjusted since the mover was fitted. I know for a fact that none of mine have and my dealer is one of the best in the country! If the gap proves to be too tight (less than 20mm on a Powrtouch) with the new tyres fitted it is only two spanners and a bit of your time to adjust them yourself.*
(* Or if you have the tyres changed at home, a cup of good tea or coffee and some nice chocolate biscuits for the tyre fitter might get the job done for you?)

Whilst, with most respect, ( something I am trying from Prime Ministers, pre drinks talk) . Due to the mileage that I do towing the Caravan, not a lot, 3000 miles a year, I do find that I have to adjust my motor mover, at least a couple of times, apart from the basic bolts there are two Allen key , studs, which have to be torqued up as well.

 

[Hutch]

Whilst, with most respect, ( something I am trying from Prime Ministers, pre drinks talk) . Due to the mileage that I do towing the Caravan, not a lot, 3000 miles a year, I do find that I have to adjust my motor mover, at least a couple of times, apart from the basic bolts there are two Allen key , studs, which have to be torqued up as well.

Don't, the number of fitters able to do them these days is way lower than it had been, and some of them will not be prepared to do so, expect a marked extra charge.
My experience has also been some who take them on don't spend enough time to get them spaced correctly and this can take a lot of added balancing weight to mitigate.
I fortunately know a good man locally, you need to find one.

I fully agree, I was a very enthusiast for the Tyron band, engineering wise a good idea, tyre and wheel technology changed. Until I had to change tyres, Kwik fit came to me in Milton Keynes from Heathrow. 45 miles, Turned out he didn't have the correct tooling which I had.
I even had the mobile it for Tyron bands, which didn't work.
Ihave now TyrePal , sensors.

 

[Clydesider]

Having read a lot on the 'tyreons', I wasn't intending on keeping them, but I know they're currently fitted. I keep the van in a secure yard in Perth, so every trip away with it entails a 2 hour drive without towing to get there, then no more than 100 mile radius once hitched, so the van probably only does 1500 miles a year.
I changed the Service Engineer last year on a recommendation, and the new guy was very thorough: he did check and adjust the m.mover.

 

[Hutch]

Having read a lot on the 'tyreons', I wasn't intending on keeping them, but I know they're currently fitted. I keep the van in a secure yard in Perth, so every trip away with it entails a 2 hour drive without towing to get there, then no more than 100 mile radius once hitched, so the van probably only does 1500 miles a year.
I changed the Service Engineer last year on a recommendation, and the new guy was very thorough: he did check and adjust the m.mover.

I would keep the Tyron Bands, I liked them , satisfied on what they do, but getting a dealer that can change then is the problem.

 

[otherclive]

Whilst, with most respect, ( something I am trying from Prime Ministers, pre drinks talk) . Due to the mileage that I do towing the Caravan, not a lot, 3000 miles a year, I do find that I have to adjust my motor mover, at least a couple of times, apart from the basic bolts there are two Allen key , studs, which have to be torqued up as well.

I’m quite surprised given your figures. With those tyres I’d expect they can do quite a high mileage plus they come with approximately 7.5 mm tread depth. Assuming that they are run to the legal limit of 1.6 mm that’s 6mm of wear. Even if the tyres only did 15000 miles (conservative) over their life 3000 miles is only one fifth of life ie just over 1 mm extra clearance on the mover. Should not be noticeable for positive mover engagement. A small reduction in tyre pressure could have more effect.

 

[IanB1485]

Err the distance between the tyre and the motor mover ( manual engage) varies with caravan loading due to the trail arm of the axle being at an angle which changes as the weight changes , so a precise measurement isn't possible, also the over centre cam mechanism is spring loaded and the spring presses the drive wheel onto the road with a certain pressure to take account of the variations in 'off' distance. It would be a bit of a rubbish design if it didn't allow for variations in the off distance and tyre pressure( it was the answer the instructor gave when I asked the question on the installers course) . Also behind the u bolts which hold the motor mover 'axle' onto the trailers' side plates there should be a clamp which the securing bolt 'bites' into the trailer's side plate to prevent any movement of the movers axle. In the years I've been doing caravans I have only ever seen one manual engage mover out of adjustment , where the gap was too small (15mm ) on one side, which didn't allow the cam to get to its full on position so the mover kicked the roller back off the road wheel.

 

[JTQ]

also the over centre cam mechanism is spring loaded and the spring presses the drive wheel onto the road with a certain pressure to take account of the variations in 'off' distance.

Not on the two Powrtouch I have had, that feature an over-centre crank mechanism.

These have a light spring on that mechanism but its main purpose is to extract the roller from the wheel and importantly keep it there.

The traction enabling load the roller generates is almost 100% created by the compliance of the tyre when the roller is force into it by the amount that the mover's stroke minus the set "gap". Not the light spring that in the over-centre state adds a minimum extra load.

Thus the gap setting is fundamental in creating the right loading to develop the requisite level of traction.

It choice of an over-centre mechanism so it does not self unload.

 

[Hutch]

OC, I am talking about 3k miles per year, given that when new tyres are fitted, the leverage on the Manual Power touch is very strong,
Normally Moving the van is Ok but after getting up a ramp onto a pitch , very uneven pitch, next to DD, the mover was slipping, but engagement was over easy.

 

[otherclive]

Err the distance between the tyre and the motor mover ( manual engage) varies with caravan loading due to the trail arm of the axle being at an angle which changes as the weight changes , so a precise measurement isn't possible, also the over centre cam mechanism is spring loaded and the spring presses the drive wheel onto the road with a certain pressure to take account of the variations in 'off' distance. It would be a bit of a rubbish design if it didn't allow for variations in the off distance and tyre pressure( it was the answer the instructor gave when I asked the question on the installers course) . Also behind the u bolts which hold the motor mover 'axle' onto the trailers' side plates there should be a clamp which the securing bolt 'bites' into the trailer's side plate to prevent any movement of the movers axle. In the years I've been doing caravans I have only ever seen one manual engage mover out of adjustment , where the gap was too small (15mm ) on one side, which didn't allow the cam to get to its full on position so the mover kicked the roller back off the road wheel.

Even when dislodging a large French kerbstone exiting an Aire my nearside Reich Move Control mover unit moved not one jot. Big sigh of relief as we were southbound.