who should Buy Land Rover from Ford?

[ProfJohnL]

One of the oldest and most respected makes Land Rover is now up for grabs from Ford.

Three questions:

1. Who would be your preferred choice of new owner?,

2. Why?

3. Should they

 

[BeemerMal]

Not sure who would be the preferred. A management buy out would be unlikely to get enough funding. Shame really but in reality Land Rover will most probably go to China! Then it will be renamed "Rand Lover"

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

BMW bailed out and now Ford despite the new models see fit to off load the Marque. There must be a lot of unanswered questions about LR for this to be happening again.

Money pit springs to mind, private equite firm also springs to mind first. But with devastating consequences for the brand if that happens I would say.

1. Honda would be my automotive owner choice.

2.They have a good UK presence in manufacturing and sales and a large 4 X 4 to take on Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota ranges should do well.

3. Not Sure

 

[ProfJohnL]

SORRY part of my pasting on Q3 got lost:......

One of the oldest and most respected makes Land Rover is now up for grabs from Ford.

Three questions:

1. Who would be your preferred choice of new owner?,

2. Why?

3. Should they by Jaguar aswell

 

[sparkes]

landrover are the only thing that has value that ford can sell. As for the questions

1, Honda.

2, Because they need the market input and have the skills to take LR to the level it needs to be

3, NO, let it die!

 

[MONKEY1]

1. Volkswagen

2. have the skills and portfolio to develop LR. look at what they have done with Sloda Seat Rolls Royce. Bugatti etc.

3. good question for the last two years they have been trying to get rid of LR mainly because as a brand it is worth something problem is they have a very old factory which is worth nothing as a factory but as a housing estate in Solihull it is worth a fair bit.

Problem is the have a massive liablity in leased Freelanders which they have to cover. No car maker is more exposed than Ford because of LR.

The crown jewels for Ford is Volvo which is showing a helathy return on investment.

MH

 

[DavidW1]

1. Management buyout with active worker stakeholding.(cloud cuckoo land probably(

2. Any other organisation would either asset strip or nick the technology, the "name" or just make a rats of it and fail miserably.

3. Probably best in the long run to let it die - sentimentality has no place in business and if Ford can't make Jags and LRs at a profit then who can?

My additional comment is that both marques are an anachronism in todays motoring scene, i.e small share of a low profit low volume crowded market sector which is also unfashionably non green. Best sell to the highest bidder and be done with it I reckon, shame for the workers but lets not forget that pre Ford the quality from both marques was abysmal; the massive investment and management overhaul was working but just came too late.

 

[Pelyma1]

Seems some of you should read this http://www.topgear.com/blogs/planettopgear/053-setting-the-record-straight/ LRs profitability off the volume rivals Porsche. IMO they won't sell any of it, if they do sell LR it will only be as a sweetner for Jag. BMW sold LR because they were going the wrong way with the brand, the Disco3 would have been soft like the X5, Ford did a great job and have a car that is still 3 years down the road winning accolades.

I think the most likley event will be the closure of a factory, that looses a few jobs and everyone will say that was lucky it could have been sold to the Asians or Private Equity.

BTW VW don't own Rolls Royce cars BMW do, they own Bently

 

[colin(bridgend)]

To sell either or both companies off to venture capitalists would be criminal - they would asset strip and then let it go the way of MG/ROVER. Surely lessons have been learned from this as to what will happen. Also whoever buys the make(s) will be contracted to purchase the engines, etc. from Ford for a period. Ford are geared up for the manufacture of the engines and should the buyer not enter into the contract they will have a product without an engine - what use will that be? MG/Rover should have teamed up with Honda during the Triumph Acclaim days. Probably someone like Honda/Toyota would be the best bet, or even Kia maybe.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Think back to the British motor industry of the 1960s. Humber, Rover, Jaguar, Alvis, Daimler, Armstrong Siddley, etc. of the more luxury end of the market and BMC, Rootes, Standard Triumph, etc for the family man. What has happened to them all. British industry has been sold down the river good and proper. A similar fate befell the motor cycle industry with BSA, Scott, Royal Enfield, Triumph, Norton, etc. and the commercial motor industry of ERF, Foden, Scammell, Commer, Bedford, Leyland, etc. The trade unions had a lot to do with the demise of our manufacturing industry and also government policy of the day.

 

[popupJohn]

The true LR was a work horse with a reputation for hard rough work and taking punishment.

Now all we see is the glossy upmarket Chelsea tractor like vehicles.

Move models back to the hard working ones that will take dents and rough usage and you have a vehicle to beat anything the world can throw against it.

 

[WilliamTups]

Most probably Land Rover will get sold off and broken up and Jag will disappear into the history books, which will be a real shame, but also with our countries Armed Forces using and replying on Land Rover so much surely the Government should take a strong interest, I mean in the of any form of major conflict could we count on the support of say China to meet the needs of the Armed Forces??

Personally, Land Rover should be British owned and built, so perhaps a Dave Richards who brought Aston Martin from Ford recently might step forward - anyone know the phone number from Richard Branson???

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Most probably Land Rover will get sold off and broken up and Jag will disappear into the history books, which will be a real shame, but also with our countries Armed Forces using and replying on Land Rover so much surely the Government should take a strong interest, I mean in the of any form of major conflict could we count on the support of say China to meet the needs of the Armed Forces??

Personally, Land Rover should be British owned and built, so perhaps a Dave Richards who brought Aston Martin from Ford recently might step forward - anyone know the phone number from Richard Branson???

The purchase of Aston Martin was made using foreign money - I believe Kuwait financed the deal for approx. 50%

 

[Steve L]

Colin of bridgend is quite right, british industry has been sold right down the river.

One of the problems was our own making, because we sat back under the "great Britain" assumption while the Japs nipped in and copied our motorcycle industry.

However, the car industry and engineering in general has had very little in the way of government assistance to develope and flurish. In this country you have to virtually prove you don't need a bank's support before they will assist you, also the only goverment grants to start business are either hidden by red tape or avaiable in areas where serious re-training or transport cost's are prohibative.

There's a saying in the uk, "A bank manager will only lend you his umbrella when the sun is shinning"

Currently there's concern over China's carbon foot print on the world. But this has come about because western europe has enforced cleaner environment on industry which in turn (due to cost being passed on to customer) forced industry to find cheaper alternatives. This unfortunately comes in the shape of eastern countries where wages are a fraction of our and the goverment's sponsor industry with interest free loans and also they rightly or wrongly turn a blind eye to pollution.

I am in no doubt that the UK is a better place environmentally than it was in the 50's and 60's but have we gone too faar too quickly in our zest to please the EU and then cripp;e our own industry's?

It won't be long now before we just have to buy a new badge to go on the car as they will all look the same!! You will never realy know who owns who at this rate.

Steve L.

 

[CRUSADER2801]

In answer to the original 3 questions:

1. Going by results in the JD Power Survey I agree Toyota or Nissan would be good for the marque to improve reliability and build quality. I have a Grand Cherokee and although no problems do date also beleive Jeep could learn a thing or two from them both and their parent company!

2. Would give them a prestige Brand name to market under in the UK. Toyota have Lexus but the RX is more of a SUV than 4x4 (nice car though!) and the Nissan Brands do not carry the same Brand image as Land Rover UK where margins still make this a profitable market.

3. Probably not from a financial point of view. Unfortunately, If they did I suspect production would be shipped abroad.

Just a pity BMW could not do for Land Rover what they have achieved with the Mini.

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Dagenham Ford worker explaining that a Ford worker mentioning the word 'strike' whilst reading a news article would have the word race across the production line with hands shooting up and tools being downed, some anti strike workers at Dagenham left cars at home or didn't drive to work as there cars were vandalised if they oposed union stike actions.Thiose were the old days of union rule.

As Colin says the unions have a lot to answer for and our Governments poured billions into the car industry.

Nissan Sunderlands new working practices and minimal union agreement seem the only way forward.

Around the world the 4 x 4 workhorses have tended to be reliable Toyota, Nissans and Mitsubishi for the past 30 years. I can't see why they would want to take on another 4 x 4 range.

BMW has its own market ideas and X Range as does Mercedes and VW/Audi/Porsche.

There has also been strong rumours that we will drop Land Rover from the armed forces and go for a pan European choice so we fit in with our European counterparts for spares and servicing on joint operations and dare I say a European Armed Force rather than the RN, RAF and Army in Britain.

Jaguar will probably bite the dust or go to China and without a big experienced player LR will probably do the same.

James

 

[Glenn_5132962]

It would make sense to me for the prodrive consortium headed by Dave Richards to buy LR & Jag. They have already bought Aston Martin and that shares many components with Jaguar. Also, the new Freelander is made in the same Factory as the X Type & shares many components. It would be difficult to seperate the marques anyway.

Jag & LR are not the cause of Fords losses. The problem lies firmly in the US with the home grown cars ford makes.

It would be a shame to lose Jag now. The Xtype is sells like hot cakes now they got around to fitting a diesel engine & is one of the best european cars according to JD power surveys. The XJ is what car's best luxury car & there's a long waiting list for the new XK. The S type replacement is just around the corner & looks stunning.

 

[seth1]

Think back to the British motor industry of the 1960s. Humber, Rover, Jaguar, Alvis, Daimler, Armstrong Siddley, etc. of the more luxury end of the market and BMC, Rootes, Standard Triumph, etc for the family man. What has happened to them all. British industry has been sold down the river good and proper. A similar fate befell the motor cycle industry with BSA, Scott, Royal Enfield, Triumph, Norton, etc. and the commercial motor industry of ERF, Foden, Scammell, Commer, Bedford, Leyland, etc. The trade unions had a lot to do with the demise of our manufacturing industry and also government policy of the day.

hello Colin,back in the 70,s it was actually british leyland that mainly destroyed british truck building.this then opened a gate for the europeans to come in.and as usual the government did nothing in the 90,s to help.

 

[seth1]

Think back to the British motor industry of the 1960s. Humber, Rover, Jaguar, Alvis, Daimler, Armstrong Siddley, etc. of the more luxury end of the market and BMC, Rootes, Standard Triumph, etc for the family man. What has happened to them all. British industry has been sold down the river good and proper. A similar fate befell the motor cycle industry with BSA, Scott, Royal Enfield, Triumph, Norton, etc. and the commercial motor industry of ERF, Foden, Scammell, Commer, Bedford, Leyland, etc. The trade unions had a lot to do with the demise of our manufacturing industry and also government policy of the day.

hello Colin,back in the 70,s it was actually british leyland that mainly destroyed british truck building.this then opened a gate for the europeans to come in.and as usual the government did nothing in the 90,s to help.

 

[Nidge1]

JCB the digger giant were interested in buying Land Rover a while ago but did not want to be saddled with jaguar so pulled out of the deal.

Would be interesting if they did buy Land Rover, just think of a disco with the world record beating diesel max engine fitted coming past you with van on the back at 300 MPH +

Nidge

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Hmm - Diesel Max eh? I think the customers would be upset with the 2 hour engine life though!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Having posed the questions, I aught to show my thinking,

Strategically there is an increasing debate about the use of large 4x4's in the UK and Europe, and there is an over capacity for manufacturing throughout the developed world. So if a company like LR were to disappear it would certainly suit many of the current producers.

In general all the car/4x4 manufacturers have to cut back, and as ever. it is politically unsafe to cut jobs in a manufactures home territory, so any super-national facilities are likely to be in danger. Ford is US based, and LR & Jag are not, also remember Peugeot and Coventry

Where a manufacture already has a substantial 4x4/SUV portfolio, they are most unlikely to be interested in purchasing LR.- why duplicate what they already have.

Equally where manufactures who do not have a substantive SUV/4x4 offering, they will be reluctant to buy into what is a politically sensitive product range, and as already noted most are somewhat strapped for cash at the moment.

There is no UK owned car industry of any significance these days, so there is no UK player in a position to take on LR or Jaguar. Aston Martins owner Prodrive is unlikely to be able to raise the capital to purchase except by extending to the Private Equity financiers

So LR and Jaguar are most likely to go to a non UK owner. So for what its worth I personally would be happy for Honda to take both LR and Jaguar.

Honda has grown into a well-respected manufacturer that makes some of the most reliable cars on our roads. Their past contact with the BL/Rover group, saw a very productive cross fertilisation of both product ranges with both companies actually gaining ground. It was criminal when BMW stole BL from under Honda's nose, but to Honda's credit, they didn't publicly weep, but just got down to designing and building better cars of ever increasing quality, and now they really do give the smaller BMW's and Mercs of this world a creditable run for their money.

Both Honda and Toyota's attempts at a large executive car never took off in the EU, their names were never seen as executive car manufacturers but Toyota over came by creating the Lexus brand. Honda could buy into it with the Jaguar brand.

Honda has a very limited range of 4x4 vehicles. The CRV its not a big seller, and LR products would certainly broaden Honda's product range.

Honda in my opinion have shown that they are a responsible manufacturer, and have acted honourably whist present in the UK.

However I do not know if Honda have expressed any interest in either LR or Jaguar, I actually hope they do.

 

[STEPHEN_374226156]

Having posed the questions, I aught to show my thinking,

Strategically there is an increasing debate about the use of large 4x4's in the UK and Europe, and there is an over capacity for manufacturing throughout the developed world. So if a company like LR were to disappear it would certainly suit many of the current producers.

In general all the car/4x4 manufacturers have to cut back, and as ever. it is politically unsafe to cut jobs in a manufactures home territory, so any super-national facilities are likely to be in danger. Ford is US based, and LR & Jag are not, also remember Peugeot and Coventry

Where a manufacture already has a substantial 4x4/SUV portfolio, they are most unlikely to be interested in purchasing LR.- why duplicate what they already have.

Equally where manufactures who do not have a substantive SUV/4x4 offering, they will be reluctant to buy into what is a politically sensitive product range, and as already noted most are somewhat strapped for cash at the moment.

There is no UK owned car industry of any significance these days, so there is no UK player in a position to take on LR or Jaguar. Aston Martins owner Prodrive is unlikely to be able to raise the capital to purchase except by extending to the Private Equity financiers

So LR and Jaguar are most likely to go to a non UK owner. So for what its worth I personally would be happy for Honda to take both LR and Jaguar.

Honda has grown into a well-respected manufacturer that makes some of the most reliable cars on our roads. Their past contact with the BL/Rover group, saw a very productive cross fertilisation of both product ranges with both companies actually gaining ground. It was criminal when BMW stole BL from under Honda's nose, but to Honda's credit, they didn't publicly weep, but just got down to designing and building better cars of ever increasing quality, and now they really do give the smaller BMW's and Mercs of this world a creditable run for their money.

Both Honda and Toyota's attempts at a large executive car never took off in the EU, their names were never seen as executive car manufacturers but Toyota over came by creating the Lexus brand. Honda could buy into it with the Jaguar brand.

Honda has a very limited range of 4x4 vehicles. The CRV its not a big seller, and LR products would certainly broaden Honda's product range.

Honda in my opinion have shown that they are a responsible manufacturer, and have acted honourably whist present in the UK.

However I do not know if Honda have expressed any interest in either LR or Jaguar, I actually hope they do.

Just to put the record straight BMW did not steal Rover they were given it by DEAR MRS THATCHER much to the disgust of HONDA

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Just to put the record straight BMW did not steal Rover they were given it by DEAR MRS THATCHER much to the disgust of HONDA

Er I think you will find that BMW bought Rover from British Aerospace in the mid 1990's. Nothing to do with Mrs Thatcher.