Withheld Telephone Numbers

[Lutz]

To avoid any possible misunderstandings, scheduled hospital appointments for operations here are always given in writing. Hospitals don’t usually conduct consultations except for operations that are already planned. Initial consultation is always with a specialist at his or her surgery first. Even scans are not normally carried out at a hospital.

 

[Hutch]

To avoid any possible misunderstandings, scheduled hospital appointments for operations here are always given in writing. Hospitals don’t usually conduct consultations except for operations that are already planned. Initial consultation is always with a specialist at his or her surgery first. Even scans are not normally carried out at a hospital.

Lutz, please when you say " here" which country, I take that as, Germany/ Austria from your previous postings, but there are newer members.

 

[Lutz]

Lutz, please when you say " here" which country, I take that as, Germany/ Austria from your previous postings, but there are newer members.

Yes, it is Germany.

 

[Woodentop]

GDPR - now <that> is a nuisance. If the hospital or doctor calls our number which has my voice on it but names us both (married 47 years!) they will not leave a message as it is possible that the 'wrong' person may get it and the privacy is then broken.
Our doctor gets round it by sending a text - to MY phone as my wife detests smartphones - so I read it anyway!

 

[Mr Plodd]

To my mind not answering withheld numbers could possibly cause an unexpected problem (such as health care calls)

So the sensible option would appear to be to answer them. There is always the ultimate option of hanging up after giving them a lesson in Anglon Saxon

 

[Lutz]

In the UK Dr's surgeries will normally have two groups of telephone numbers, There the public numbers for patients to use, and others for inter-departmental communications. If patients were given these numbers they would try to use them rather than the designated appointments number, blocking the lines and wasting the staffs time in answering them and not being able to help.

If they don't want the public to return a call using the number for inter-departmental communications they can always transmit the public number on those lines on outgoing calls, too, so where's the need to withhold numbers? They should be aware that quite a lot of people are suspicious of withheld numbers and consequently don't answer them.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If they don't want the public to return a call using the number for inter-departmental communications they can always transmit the public number on those lines on outgoing calls, too, so where's the need to withhold numbers? They should be aware that quite a lot of people are suspicious of withheld numbers and consequently don't answer them.

That my be possible, but in some cases especially during the Covid lockdowns, some healthcare professionals had to work from home, and arranging the tech to display a different number (with m uch of the UK's out of date telephony system) is not easy, and in some case would have been illegal. It is simpler to opt for number withheld.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

No reason in my view for any legitimate business or organisation to be witholding their caller ID. Obviously GPs aren't going to want to be giving out their direct dial. but there is no technical reason a phone system can't be set up to show the main surgery number as caller ID.

 

[Lutz]

What have I learned from this thread? That the UK health system relies heavily on phone contact with the patient, a lot more than on the other side of the Channel.
On a related subject what I also find annoying is that some of the people that I deal with insist on having my mobile phone number too when I give them the landline number. I just don’t want any Tom, Dick or Harry to phone me while I’m at the supermarket or in the gym so I will only give my mobile number to a select few.

 

[Buckman]

What have I learned from this thread? That the UK health system relies heavily on phone contact with the patient, a lot more than on the other side of the Channel.
On a related subject what I also find annoying is that some of the people that I deal with insist on having my mobile phone number too when I give them the landline number. I just don’t want any Tom, Dick or Harry to phone me while I’m at the supermarket or in the gym so I will only give my mobile number to a select few.

What is even more annoying is doing the telephone consultation then they decide that you need to be seen by a doctor. What a waste of time as now there are two appointments for the same issue!

Even more annoying is when you book a follow up appointment for the same issue with the same doctor you go through the same process!

 

[Sam Vimes]

I have friends who with hold their numbers. One possible reason is that if you make a call to say a sales organisation as a general enquiry, they will capture your number and possible then recall you when you don't want them to.

Same happens with email addresses but you can get around this with made up addresses.

 

[ProfJohnL]

What is even more annoying is doing the telephone consultation then they decide that you need to be seen by a doctor. What a waste of time as now there are two appointments for the same issue!

Even more annoying is when you book a follow up appointment for the same issue with the same doctor you go through the same process!

My wife and I both have medical conditions that various consultants like to periodically review, and as a consequence we spend many hours each year sitting in clinical waiting rooms, to be seen by a specialist only to be asked "How are You" and "Are you still taking the medication" and then told, "well there's no change and we'll see you again in 3 month" All of which could have been achieved with a phone call, rather than having to spend a whole morning or afternoon traveling 50 miles, spending out on fuel, finding parking spaces parking and facing idiots on city roads cutting you up.

I am a member of a Patient Participation Group, at our local GP surgery, and as such we get to see and hear about the the issues and solutions the surgery faces and we help to inform the practice of the patients perspective using survey's of how the surgery is run. Whilst there are certain standards imposed by the Gov't, each practice has to decide how best they can meet those standards, which is why you can find a range of approaches to the same issue in at different surgeries.

When we looked at the statistics (no personal data) for the types of of conditions that GP's have requests for appointments, a large percentage are for conditions that don't need to be seen in person, and could be very satisfactorily managed by a telephone call. The enforced restrictions on face to face consultations during the Covid lockdowns showed this can work. But there are also case were the GP is unable to make firm diagnosis over the phone, and so the patient would be asked to come into the surgery for a more detailed discussion or examination.

From the Patients perspective, especially if they are working, it means they don't need to have so much time off work for a simple consultation, in fact they might still be at work to take the call.

Its a scheme that can work to everyone's advantage, But sadly there have been a few cases where a more serious condition has not been identified over the phone, and the patient has deteriorated. It is not a foregone conclusion if the patient had been physically examined by the GP the condition would have been identified, but a well trained GP will pick up a lot of clues just from seeing the patient come through the door, and obviously a voice only phone call does not facilitate this aspect of clerking.

No health service is perfect, and there is always room for improvement.

 

[RogerL]

My wife and I both have medical conditions that various consultants like to periodically review, and as a consequence we spend many hours each year sitting in clinical waiting rooms, to be seen by a specialist only to be asked "How are You" and "Are you still taking the medication" and then told, "well there's no change and we'll see you again in 3 month" All of which could have been achieved with a phone call, rather than having to spend a whole morning or afternoon traveling 50 miles, spending out on fuel, finding parking spaces parking and facing idiots on city roads cutting you up.

I am a member of a Patient Participation Group, at our local GP surgery, and as such we get to see and hear about the the issues and solutions the surgery faces and we help to inform the practice of the patients perspective using survey's of how the surgery is run. Whilst there are certain standards imposed by the Gov't, each practice has to decide how best they can meet those standards, which is why you can find a range of approaches to the same issue in at different surgeries.

When we looked at the statistics (no personal data) for the types of of conditions that GP's have requests for appointments, a large percentage are for conditions that don't need to be seen in person, and could be very satisfactorily managed by a telephone call. The enforced restrictions on face to face consultations during the Covid lockdowns showed this can work. But there are also case were the GP is unable to make firm diagnosis over the phone, and so the patient would be asked to come into the surgery for a more detailed discussion or examination.

From the Patients perspective, especially if they are working, it means they don't need to have so much time off work for a simple consultation, in fact they might still be at work to take the call.

Its a scheme that can work to everyone's advantage, But sadly there have been a few cases where a more serious condition has not been identified over the phone, and the patient has deteriorated. It is not a foregone conclusion if the patient had been physically examined by the GP the condition would have been identified, but a well trained GP will pick up a lot of clues just from seeing the patient come through the door, and obviously a voice only phone call does not facilitate this aspect of clerking.

No health service is perfect, and there is always room for improvement.

The usefulness of GP telephone consultations is well established - many patients suffer huge frustration at the hoops that have to be jumped through to get a telephone appointment, especially when they won't accept messages/requests by any other method.

Our GP surgery requires you to ring at 8:30 in the morning to request an appointment - once today's appointments are filled that's it until tomorrow - they don't make future appointments even for non-urgent matter - the reality is that the phone lines will already be engaged at 8:30 so in practice you can't get an appointment.

 

[otherclive]

My wife and I both have medical conditions that various consultants like to periodically review, and as a consequence we spend many hours each year sitting in clinical waiting rooms, to be seen by a specialist only to be asked "How are You" and "Are you still taking the medication" and then told, "well there's no change and we'll see you again in 3 month" All of which could have been achieved with a phone call, rather than having to spend a whole morning or afternoon traveling 50 miles, spending out on fuel, finding parking spaces parking and facing idiots on city roads cutting you up.

I am a member of a Patient Participation Group, at our local GP surgery, and as such we get to see and hear about the the issues and solutions the surgery faces and we help to inform the practice of the patients perspective using survey's of how the surgery is run. Whilst there are certain standards imposed by the Gov't, each practice has to decide how best they can meet those standards, which is why you can find a range of approaches to the same issue in at different surgeries.

When we looked at the statistics (no personal data) for the types of of conditions that GP's have requests for appointments, a large percentage are for conditions that don't need to be seen in person, and could be very satisfactorily managed by a telephone call. The enforced restrictions on face to face consultations during the Covid lockdowns showed this can work. But there are also case were the GP is unable to make firm diagnosis over the phone, and so the patient would be asked to come into the surgery for a more detailed discussion or examination.

From the Patients perspective, especially if they are working, it means they don't need to have so much time off work for a simple consultation, in fact they might still be at work to take the call.

Its a scheme that can work to everyone's advantage, But sadly there have been a few cases where a more serious condition has not been identified over the phone, and the patient has deteriorated. It is not a foregone conclusion if the patient had been physically examined by the GP the condition would have been identified, but a well trained GP will pick up a lot of clues just from seeing the patient come through the door, and obviously a voice only phone call does not facilitate this aspect of clerking.

No health service is perfect, and there is always room for improvement.

Thank you a good summary. In our previous practice some 10 years ago the GPs introduced telephone consultations prior to giving an appointment to see you ( if required). It worked quite well and you could access appointments relatively easily for that day or a few days ahead. The change was introduced because the town had grown and the elderly and young population had increased whilst in parallel the practice was finding it difficult to maintain the number of GPS or full time equivalents. But since then the system has deteriorated given the pressures on it and no investment in that time.


Where we now live we have an excellent health Center which gives access to GP telephone appointments and face to face if required, , face to face ones with advance nurse practitioners, and things like blood tests etc can be arranged on line. If you discuss with reception staff they can arrange a short notice appointment if considered necessary. My granddaughter got one a couple of weeks ago. She rang after lunch and was asked to go into the health Center an hour later for a consultation with a doctor.

So it’s a bit of a post code lottery I’m afraid.

 

[Lutz]

Maybe a system like that would be something to think about in my part of the world. I've never heard of a doctor offering a same day appointment over here. If you feel the need to see the doctor urgently you just go there and wait. On top of that quite a lot of doctors reserve one day a week for consultations without appointments. My wife tried to get an appointment with a cardiologist last week and was offered an appointment in November. After much phoning around she found another in a town about 15 miles away for next Friday.

 

[Buckman]

Its a scheme that can work to everyone's advantage, But sadly there have been a few cases where a more serious condition has not been identified over the phone, and the patient has deteriorated. It is not a foregone conclusion if the patient had been physically examined by the GP the condition would have been identified, but a well trained GP will pick up a lot of clues just from seeing the patient come through the door, and obviously a voice only phone call does not facilitate this aspect of clerking.

No health service is perfect, and there is always room for improvement.

I agree that the telephone system works in some cases, but the telephone system worked very badly for my wife who then had to be rushed to hospital by ambulance and almost did not make it.

Unfortunately it seems that receptionists are told by the practice manager that only initial telephone consultation can be done. What I do not understand is that before Covid generally you could physically see a doctor the same or the next day?

Now it can take a couple of days for the telephone consultation to happen and then another day or two to see the doctor. It does seem that two appointments for the same issue is causing the backlog. Also now if doing an Online appointment it can take up to two weeks to get the telephone appointment where as before generally it was about a week.

We are very grateful for the hard work that is done by the NHS, but surely the double booking of appointments is creating an extra and unnecessary workload that was not there previously? Perhaps patients should be given a choice as sometimes you do not need to see a doctor i.e. a bad cold, upset tummy etc.

 

[Beachball]

depends on my mood, I either don't answer or I will pick up the call and wait for them to speak first. Often the automatic scam message starts after a few seconds.

our main phone is on do not disturb and the answerphone comes on after 3 rings and usually who ringing either leaves message or not .
But my doctor .hospital and pharmacy and family friends have my mobile number and it seems to work okay

 

[ProfJohnL]

So it’s a bit of a post code lottery I’m afraid.

There are Gov't guidelines and objectives, and there are local Clinical Commissioning Group targets, but it's up to each practice to decide exactly how to fulfil their contractural obligations. So yes it is a post code lottery, or as in the case of our health centre, which houses three different practices, it's a "What three words"** lottery.

For those who need regular appointments I'd suggest you specifically ask for a "non urgent appointment."

**"What three words" is GPS based location system that has mapped the world with 3*3 metre squares and identifies each square with a unique combination of three words.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree that the telephone system works in some cases, but the telephone system worked very badly for my wife who then had to be rushed to hospital by ambulance and almost did not make it.

Unfortunately it seems that receptionists are told by the practice manager that only initial telephone consultation can be done. What I do not understand is that before Covid generally you could physically see a doctor the same or the next day?

Now it can take a couple of days for the telephone consultation to happen and then another day or two to see the doctor. It does seem that two appointments for the same issue is causing the backlog. Also now if doing an Online appointment it can take up to two weeks to get the telephone appointment where as before generally it was about a week.

We are very grateful for the hard work that is done by the NHS, but surely the double booking of appointments is creating an extra and unnecessary workload that was not there previously? Perhaps patients should be given a choice as sometimes you do not need to see a doctor i.e. a bad cold, upset tummy etc.

I'm sorry your wife's situation was so serious, and that the system you encountered seemed to be ineffective. That is a matter you should open a discussion with your practice about the events. Each case has to be judged on its own merits.

GP stands for General Practice not Urgent or Emergency practice, and if a patient has need of Urgent, attention it may add delays to situation by attempting to seek a GP appointment. NHS 111 is there for Urgent advice and if necessary referrals.

For quite a number of minor ailments, you can now consult your pharmacist for advice and the prescribing of some stronger than over the counter treatments.

 

[Buckman]

I'm sorry your wife's situation was so serious, and that the system you encountered seemed to be ineffective. That is a matter you should open a discussion with your practice about the events. Each case has to be judged on its own merits.

GP stands for General Practice not Urgent or Emergency practice, and if a patient has need of Urgent, attention it may add delays to situation by attempting to seek a GP appointment. NHS 111 is there for Urgent advice and if necessary referrals.

For quite a number of minor ailments, you can now consult your pharmacist for advice and the prescribing of some stronger than over the counter treatments.

Unfortunately at the time we did not realise the seriousness of the issue as it was a follow up on a previous telephone appointment. What made it even worse is that on arrival at A&E she was kept in the ambulance for nearly 8 hours before being admitted into A&E. It was very touch and go.

OH then spent 5 weeks in hospital. If the GP had been able to see OH at an earlier time, there may not have been any need for her to spend so long in hospital. We will never know.

As said telephone appointments are great for minor issues however the choice should still be with the patient who is paying for the service.

 

[otherclive]

I agree that the telephone system works in some cases, but the telephone system worked very badly for my wife who then had to be rushed to hospital by ambulance and almost did not make it.

Unfortunately it seems that receptionists are told by the practice manager that only initial telephone consultation can be done. What I do not understand is that before Covid generally you could physically see a doctor the same or the next day?

Now it can take a couple of days for the telephone consultation to happen and then another day or two to see the doctor. It does seem that two appointments for the same issue is causing the backlog. Also now if doing an Online appointment it can take up to two weeks to get the telephone appointment where as before generally it was about a week.

We are very grateful for the hard work that is done by the NHS, but surely the double booking of appointments is creating an extra and unnecessary workload that was not there previously? Perhaps patients should be given a choice as sometimes you do not need to see a doctor i.e. a bad cold, upset tummy etc.

Surely a bad cold or upset tummy don’t really merit a call to the health centre. Self treatment is mainly all that’s required. But many don’t know how to unfortunately

 

[Dustydog]

The usefulness of GP telephone consultations is well established - many patients suffer huge frustration at the hoops that have to be jumped through to get a telephone appointment, especially when they won't accept messages/requests by any other method.

Our GP surgery requires you to ring at 8:30 in the morning to request an appointment - once today's appointments are filled that's it until tomorrow - they don't make future appointments even for non-urgent matter - the reality is that the phone lines will already be engaged at 8:30 so in practice you can't get an appointment.

Same at my surgery Roger. We learnt years ago telephoning at 8.30 am is a total
waste of time. If you can, we visit the surgery at 8.30am, opening time, and dare I say jump the telephone queue.
I have found telephone consultations efficient ,swift , and constructive. Last summer I had a post operative wound infection. Photo sent to the surgery as requested by receptionist. 15 minutes later my GP rang, withheld number, anti B’s prescription emailed over to chemist in Devon immediately. Brilliant.
Now, I do answer withelds. It is clear depending where you are and who your GP is the level of NHS service and expectation is wildly different! The Prof’s example proves this very point . As we get older I don’t want to spend my time on hospital appointments that can be dealt with over the phone.

 

[Buckman]

Surely a bad cold or upset tummy don’t really merit a call to the health centre. Self treatment is mainly all that’s required. But many don’t know how to unfortunately

I was used those as an example as there are many ailments or queries that can be dealt with over the telephone, but the patient should be offered the choice. Just to add that with either of us sadly we need to be very careful even with getting just a cold however I feel all that is required would be a telephone consultation.

However back to the orignal topic we are very lucky that our surgery does not withhold their numbers as we can immediately identify that it is the surgery calling.

 

[RogerL]

Same at my surgery Roger. We learnt years ago telephoning at 8.30 am is a total
waste of time. If you can, we visit the surgery at 8.30am, opening time, and dare I say jump the telephone queue.
I have found telephone consultations efficient ,swift , and constructive. Last summer I had a post operative wound infection. Photo sent to the surgery as requested by receptionist. 15 minutes later my GP rang, withheld number, anti B’s prescription emailed over to chemist in Devon immediately. Brilliant.
Now, I do answer withelds. It is clear depending where you are and who your GP is the level of NHS service and expectation is wildly different! The Prof’s example proves this very point . As we get older I don’t want to spend my time on hospital appointments that can be dealt with over the phone.

Our surgery won't make appointments when we go it to the health centre, phoning at 8:30 is the only way.

 

[otherclive]

My father even at 96 used to go to the health Center and join a queue of patients wanting to see a doctor. There were a set number of appointments available to those wishing to queue. But 0730 joining a queue outdoors in whatever weather isn’t really on, is it? At 0800 doors opened. But if you had not joined the queue early you would not get sen by a doctor, and you couldn’t meander over to the desk and make one for another time/day.

But he preferred it to spending long periods on the phone which he saw as a waste of time never recouped.