“Combined” Weighbridge weight correct or wrong?

[Mr Plodd]

The actual wording for excess weight offences includes "used on a road" So it has to be "on a road" before someone stops it to be weighed!, Axle weight can be legal whilst the gross weight can be illegal. What if a trailer was so loaded that a tonne was on the towhitch and the trailers axle weight was bang on its plated weight? Would that mean no offence was committed? (Extreme and hypothetical I know, but it explains the principle of gross weight)?
As I keep saying, I was involved in weight checks, and prosecutions fir many years, so I am able to speak from a position of actual knowledge, not assumption/individual interpretation of the law

Buckman
If your caravan is on your drive or not "on a road" then it matters not what it weighs because no offence is committed As soon as it goes on the road, if then overweight the offence is present.,. The same as if your car on the drive has 4 bald tyres it's no offence because it's not on a road.

 

[Dustydog]

A few questions 🙀
MTPLM is Not a legal limit? True or false?

My pre 2012 only has one plate which can be upgraded for £60.
So the original MTPLM is not a fixed value?

Each of my two axles is rated at 1000kgs. Does that mean I can have an upgraded MTPLM of 2000 kgs?

Who decides the MTPLM?

How is the MTPLM calculated?

There are a number of new caravanners this season . Let’s hope this comprehensive thread gives them a better understanding of the whole subject . 👍

 

[otherclive]

When I’ve had payload upgrades the manufacturer amended their records and issued me new paperwork showing the new MTPLM and sticky label. So officially my caravans were rated to carry the extra payload. So as you say it’s not necessarily a fixed value but one that can be amended by the maker if the design margin exists. The maker of the caravan specifies the MTPLM.

 

[RogerL]

The confusion around MTPLM is because the NCC and manufacturers operate a farce in their use of words.

MTPLM stands for "Maximum Technical Permitted Laden Mass" which implies that some technical change is needed to increase that figure. The fact that manufacturers can issue an upgraded sticker/plate with no physical changes means that the original figure isn't a maximum.

 

[Buckman]

Not sure. but I don't think you can be prosecuted for exceeding the stated MTPLM on the sticker by the door as it does not conform to statutory requirements?

I just make sure that we are within that figure anyway and it saves a lot of hassles. However I must admit with all the jargon about axle weights and MTPLM, I am now even more confused than ever, but it doesn't bother me. I will just continue to do my thing and stay within the law.

 

[Lutz]

Not sure. but I don't think you can be prosecuted for exceeding the stated MTPLM on the sticker by the door as it does not conform to statutory requirements?

That is true. So long as there is also a statutory plate somewhere on the caravan stating the MTPLM and axle load limits, it would not be illegal to remove the sticker by the door because all details that are required by law would still be displayed.

 

[Lutz]

A few questions 🙀
MTPLM is Not a legal limit? True or false?

My pre 2012 only has one plate which can be upgraded for £60.
So the original MTPLM is not a fixed value?

Each of my two axles is rated at 1000kgs. Does that mean I can have an upgraded MTPLM of 2000 kgs?

Who decides the MTPLM?

How is the MTPLM calculated?

There are a number of new caravanners this season . Let’s hope this comprehensive thread gives them a better understanding of the whole subject . 👍

Only the caravan manufacturer is authorised to make any changes to an MTPLM. On post-2012 caravans he has to confirm that any amendment is in line with what he has had type approved. In other words, if the caravan has, say, a 1500kg axle, but the manufacturer only had the caravan type approved to 1400kg he cannot issue an upgrade to 1500kg.

 

[otherclive]

That is true. So long as there is also a statutory plate somewhere on the caravan stating the MTPLM and axle load limits, it would not be illegal to remove the sticker by the door because all details that are required by law would still be displayed.

Since the stickers seemed to fade quite rapidly, when I received my upgrade sticky label I just kept it with the caravans document pack, and only affixed it before I sold or traded the caravan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

This thread has further shown how inept the UK caravan industry is, and how the NCC as the Trade Body of the UK industry have managed to distort widely accepted road transport definitions to confuse customers. Then they compound the ineptitude by using corrupted definitions of criteria such as Kerbweight and Maximum Technical Permitted Laden Mass MTPLM and other load characteristics, for criteria for the components of calculations supposedly to inform caravanners about the suitability of towed combinations.

NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

 

[trevormonty]

After having a 240 kg overload on a 1000kg MTPLM I did weigh my caravan empty but with battery and mover. Shocks all around!!!

I suspect mine new caravan will be over MTPLM with ebikes on board but without access to scales no way to prove it.

Started weighing stuff as I loaded it and it added up quickly. Bedding + kitchen stuff which I culled was 35kg.

 

[Dustydog]

Let me put another spanner in the works.
What is “Type Approval for a caravan”?

We joined the EU in 1974 and officially left in December 2018. On the 30 May 2018 The EU type approval became subject to Regulation (EU) 2018/858.
It’s worth a read but , other than dare I say Germany , there is nothing immediately apparent that says the U.K. must follow suit? Obviously they do because we are still using EU rules one way or another.
So exactly who is it that lays down the Law on Type Approval?
The Manufacturer? The NCC? HMG?

 

[RogerL]

Let me put another spanner in the works.
What is “Type Approval for a caravan”?

We joined the EU in 1974 and officially left in December 2018. On the 30 May 2018 The EU type approval became subject to Regulation (EU) 2018/858.
It’s worth a read but , other than dare I say Germany , there is nothing immediately apparent that says the U.K. must follow suit? Obviously they do because we are still using EU rules one way or another.
So exactly who is it that lays down the Law on Type Approval?
The Manufacturer? The NCC? HMG?

We were in the EU when Type Approval was made mandatory for caravans - those laws and regulations were enacted into UK law when we left the EU so unless and until those laws are repealed by a UK government then UK courts will uphold the EU Type Approval regulations.

 

[Lutz]

Let me put another spanner in the works.
What is “Type Approval for a caravan”?

We joined the EU in 1974 and officially left in December 2018. On the 30 May 2018 The EU type approval became subject to Regulation (EU) 2018/858.
It’s worth a read but , other than dare I say Germany , there is nothing immediately apparent that says the U.K. must follow suit? Obviously they do because we are still using EU rules one way or another.
So exactly who is it that lays down the Law on Type Approval?
The Manufacturer? The NCC? HMG?

HMG. Who else can it be? As yet there is no UK specific legislation to replace EU type approval, but even if and when there is such a thing it will probably be based on EU regulations. Anything else would preclude export. Even the Australians have largely adopted EU regulations in their legislation for that reason.

 

[otherclive]

Let me put another spanner in the works.
What is “Type Approval for a caravan”?

We joined the EU in 1974 and officially left in December 2018. On the 30 May 2018 The EU type approval became subject to Regulation (EU) 2018/858.
It’s worth a read but , other than dare I say Germany , there is nothing immediately apparent that says the U.K. must follow suit? Obviously they do because we are still using EU rules one way or another.
So exactly who is it that lays down the Law on Type Approval?
The Manufacturer? The NCC? HMG?

Wouldn’t UK manufacturers still need to have Type Approval to sell caravans in Europe?

It’s VCA who control type approvals in UK

Vehicle Certification Agency

www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk

 

[Lutz]

Wouldn’t UK manufacturers still need to have Type Approval to sell caravans in Europe?

Yes, that's why I said that UK national type approval, if and when it comes, is unlikely to be any different to EU type approval.

 

[otherclive]

Yes, that's why I said that UK national type approval, if and when it comes, is unlikely to be any different to EU type approval.

Apologies for my duplication, but the battery went to zero before I had posted my response to Dusty, and after switching it on later I just hit “ reply”.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

We shall be dropping our caravan off to the dealership after our next adventure in June, as they will be fixing the rusting rails, and a few other snags which we have seen along the way.

Does anyone think dealerships will have a weigh scale, I was thinking if they do services maybe they would have it.... could be wrong. But I will be asking them.

What do you all recommend leaving in the caravan and what to ensure it taken out for the proper weight?

I mean do we really need to take 'everything' out, no food, clothes, pots pans etc, and just leave the caravan bare, or should we leave things in like pots etc as we know they will always be in there... hmmm

 

[Buckman]

We shall be dropping our caravan off to the dealership after our next adventure in June, as they will be fixing the rusting rails, and a few other snags which we have seen along the way.

Does anyone think dealerships will have a weigh scale, I was thinking if they do services maybe they would have it.... could be wrong. But I will be asking them.

What do you all recommend leaving in the caravan and what to ensure it taken out for the proper weight?

I mean do we really need to take 'everything' out, no food, clothes, pots pans etc, and just leave the caravan bare, or should we leave things in like pots etc as we know they will always be in there... hmmm

Don't forget to remove gas bottles and battery if you want to go the whole hog. When the caravan is in for a service, we leave most of the stuff like bedding, pots, pans, cutlery, crockery etc in the caravan. We gave up being paranoid about weight ages ago

 

[ProfJohnL]

We shall be dropping our caravan off to the dealership after our next adventure in June, as they will be fixing the rusting rails, and a few other snags which we have seen along the way.

Does anyone think dealerships will have a weigh scale, I was thinking if they do services maybe they would have it.... could be wrong. But I will be asking them.

What do you all recommend leaving in the caravan and what to ensure it taken out for the proper weight?

I mean do we really need to take 'everything' out, no food, clothes, pots pans etc, and just leave the caravan bare, or should we leave things in like pots etc as we know they will always be in there... hmmm

For servicing at a dealership, check with the dealer concerned, but many instruct to remove all personal and high value items.

With regards the weight, dealers may have scales ut I doubt they will be calibrated to the degree your looking for.

But the bigger question is why do you want to know the empty weight of the caravan? it is what it is, and there's nothing you can do to change it. The far more important criteria and concern is the overall weight of the loaded caravan and ensuring it does not exceed its MTPLM when its loaded.

Can you explain why need to know the empty weight?

 

[Saxo Appeal]

We want to know the exact weight of the Caravan, so we can judge whether we can strap on a bike rack on the back

If we are nearing the limit of the upgraded weight of 2000kg then obviously this is a no no.

 

[Hutch]

We want to know the exact weight of the Caravan, so we can judge whether we can strap on a bike rack on the back

If we are nearing the limit of the upgraded weight of 2000kg then obviously this is a no no.

I fill the caravan with all the normal things that we don't remove. ie, pots pans, fluids, ramps etc. and take it to the local scrap merchants weight scales. Weigh just the caravan. That will give you a very close approximation of your vans weight.
I now use the Reich weight scales, accurate to +/- 2%, I bought it 2nd hand. Very handy .

Reich Caravan Weight Control to Check Caravan WeightDefault Title

New digital weighing device from Reich. The perfect tool to ensure that your caravan/motorhome is not overweight. Maximum load per wheel 1500KG Maximum load jockey wheel 125KG.

ukcampingandleisure.co.uk

 

[Saxo Appeal]

I fill the caravan with all the normal things that we don't remove. ie, pots pans, fluids, ramps etc. and take it to the local scrap merchants weight scales. Weigh just the caravan. That will give you a very close approximation of your vans weight.
I now use the Reich weight scales, accurate to +/- 2%, I bought it 2nd hand. Very handy .

Reich Caravan Weight Control to Check Caravan WeightDefault Title

New digital weighing device from Reich. The perfect tool to ensure that your caravan/motorhome is not overweight. Maximum load per wheel 1500KG Maximum load jockey wheel 125KG.

ukcampingandleisure.co.uk

Ooooh how does this work Hutch?

 

[Hutch]

You just roll the caravan wheel over the unit, tow it over or use the motor mover. it records the weight of each wheel, and gives a readout of each wheel and then combined weight. It does twin axle. I can check the car, then check the caravan, mine is about 10 years old.
Mine you it over reads, by 10 kg, when I stand on it. 🥴

 

[otherclive]

Ooooh how does this work Hutch?

You just weigh each wheel separately and also the jockey wheel to see what your van weighs whether loaded or empty.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

You just roll the caravan wheel over the unit, tow it over or use the motor mover. it records the weight of each wheel, and gives a readout of each wheel and then combined weight. It does twin axle. I can check the car, then check the caravan, mine is about 10 years old.
Mine you it over reads, by 10 kg, when I stand on it. 🥴

So it either needs calibrated, or your overw.....