2015 Tow Car Awards
- Thread starter LizziePope
- Start date
Hello Ray,
We have discussed this point over the last few years where you have repeatedly criticised the choice of TCOTY as not being suitable for your needs.
Its like all the award ceremonies for films and plays, just because its got an award doesn't necessarily mean you will like it!
Its impossible to choose a TCOTY that will universally satisfy everyones needs. If the choice was based simply the technical abilities of a vehicle then you might be able to point to a 4x4, but other characteristics are also considered, such as affordability, suitability for new drivers with only Cat B licences, will it fit in the garage. Is it comfortable and practical for passengers and drivers?
Quite simply, there is no one single vehicle that be universally acceptable to everyone.
Just try and accept the TCOTY as the combined opinion of a few people, its not designed to be a directive for everyone to follow and go and purchase one, and whilst some people may use it as starting point in their choice of towcar, I would be very surprised if any ones choice was solely based on the accolade of it being awarded TCOTY status.
I never thought I would write this but chill out, grab another glass of wine, and have a laugh as you read the results.
We have discussed this point over the last few years where you have repeatedly criticised the choice of TCOTY as not being suitable for your needs.
Its like all the award ceremonies for films and plays, just because its got an award doesn't necessarily mean you will like it!
Its impossible to choose a TCOTY that will universally satisfy everyones needs. If the choice was based simply the technical abilities of a vehicle then you might be able to point to a 4x4, but other characteristics are also considered, such as affordability, suitability for new drivers with only Cat B licences, will it fit in the garage. Is it comfortable and practical for passengers and drivers?
Quite simply, there is no one single vehicle that be universally acceptable to everyone.
Just try and accept the TCOTY as the combined opinion of a few people, its not designed to be a directive for everyone to follow and go and purchase one, and whilst some people may use it as starting point in their choice of towcar, I would be very surprised if any ones choice was solely based on the accolade of it being awarded TCOTY status.
I never thought I would write this but chill out, grab another glass of wine, and have a laugh as you read the results.
ProfJohnL said:
And yet the title gives it away! its not called" here are a few cars we like to tow with", it is called tow car of they year or something similar and awards are given by a so called establishment and so called authorities on the subject . Ray has a point after all to suggest that it doesn't influence peoples buying is ridiculous,its advertisement and that is what advertising is all about... just thinking back a decade and remembering the KIA Sorrento winning the award and just how many i saw towing suggest it does influence people. and no doubt it was /is a good towcar .. Like Ray i'd like to see far more what i consider normal size cars,is it wrong to suggest that on here? aren't opinions what actually influences what we see or what is tested?
Prof
Taking your advice I have imbibed another glass of wine!
That said I fully understand Ray's point.
okay. For us it has always been about "what I need to tow my caravan".
I appreciate over the last 37 years our caravan weights have increased like my waistline
I don't believe there is a TCOTY.
I'd like to see more technical data on weights, sagging suspensions, side winds, slip streams, and braking.
So . There is no reason a Fiat 500 can't win???????
Taking your advice I have imbibed another glass of wine!
That said I fully understand Ray's point.
okay. For us it has always been about "what I need to tow my caravan".
I appreciate over the last 37 years our caravan weights have increased like my waistline
I don't believe there is a TCOTY.
I'd like to see more technical data on weights, sagging suspensions, side winds, slip streams, and braking.
So . There is no reason a Fiat 500 can't win???????
Dustydog said:
Have you seen this month's Caravan Club magazine, inside the back cover? There is a photo of an Isetta bubble car towing a trailer tent. :huh:
Edit: Have you seen the size of a Fiat 500 these days? They appear bigger than an original Mini.
Awards are usually given by people who are deemed to be knowledgeable in the field that the award is given. The award by their nature imply a superior performance over the rest having been judged by those same knowledgeable people. The inference therfore is that those who get the award are to be recommended by virtue of the fact that they are in some way more proficient at the task than the rest.
If there is no intention to influence those in the market for purchasing this type of product there would be no point in proclaiming those who have won the awards.
The problem is the criteria set for the award by those awarding it may not be the same as the rest of us.
If there is no intention to influence those in the market for purchasing this type of product there would be no point in proclaiming those who have won the awards.
The problem is the criteria set for the award by those awarding it may not be the same as the rest of us.
Hello Jonny,
If you had read my post carefully, I didn't write that car buyers were not influenced by the TCOTY results, I was careful to write that no one would use the results as their sole arbiter of choice.
There is nothing wrong with suggesting vehicles the reviewers should include, but they will never cover every possible car, and by its nature the awards will never be totally conclusive. The range of criteria in each category will never be universal, so the results whilst interesting and as long as they only suggest one TCOTY it will inevitably be from one category, and therefore never a universally acceptable result.
If you had read my post carefully, I didn't write that car buyers were not influenced by the TCOTY results, I was careful to write that no one would use the results as their sole arbiter of choice.
There is nothing wrong with suggesting vehicles the reviewers should include, but they will never cover every possible car, and by its nature the awards will never be totally conclusive. The range of criteria in each category will never be universal, so the results whilst interesting and as long as they only suggest one TCOTY it will inevitably be from one category, and therefore never a universally acceptable result.
Well at least its not a German shoot out.At the end of the day its only one persons opinon,we all differ.This months tow test in the mag was a 100k Range Rover,i cant really see the point of testing that vehicle.Well over 300hp and well over 500 pounds feet of torque.I think the numbers speak for them selfs,plus the price tag.I,d rather read about road tests on cars around 3 to 5 years old which is more realistic.
Having been involved in the Tow Car Awards event since 2007, perhaps I can throw a bit of an insight into how we get the results. To start with, calling the event the Tow Car Awards is perhaps a bit confusing. Each car tested (and please remember that only the cars entered by the manufacturers can be judged, so when there are apparent omissions, it's down to them) has four categories to be scored in:-
1. Towing
2. Solo
3. Practicality
4. Buying and Owning
The "Solo" results are based pretty much upon how What Car? testers rate each car. On that basis, it is a very subjective issue, as I know that I've driven cars that they rate highly, but wouldn't entertain one myself, and probably vice versa.
The "Practicality" covers a whole multitude of things, like the amount of boot space, ease of getting to the towing electrics, do ALL the electrics work, clarity of the handbooks, how much the rear suspension drops with a caravan hitched etc.
"Buying and Owning" covers the costs of running each vehicle, and includes comparative economy (and True MPG where the tests have been done), CO2 emissions, purchase price and depreciation, Company Car Tax (something that once again isn't relevant to me), etc., etc.
"Towing" is based upon several judges driving a course, which includes numerous different tests, including a 1:6 hill start, and a 60 (and 70 if stable at 60) dual-carriageway run, together with many other things. Each of those is judges pretty much by a "seat of the pants" method, but surprisingly, the results from most judges tend to have the same cars at the top, and the same at the bottom. One of the judges is involved in more scientific methods. The car is GPS tracked, and whilst the ATC units do not operate the caravan brakes, live data is obtained by Al-Ko so that yaw, roll and pitch rates can be obtained at any point during the test. Stopping distances are measured by taking GPS data giving 30-0 times and distances, and whether the caravan pulls up smoothly or it thumps the car etc. That test is carried out at exactly the same spot on the test tracks so that it is as consistent as it is possible to be. Two 30-60 measurements are taken too. One in each direction of a perfectly flat section of track. Finally, (and the bit that sorts the good from the bad) lane change tests are done. These involve passing through a gate, swerving to the right to pass through another gate, and then back to the left for a third. The runs are done at 30, 32 and 35. The higher speed tests (which seem like nothing really, but believe me, they're plenty fast enough!!) are only done if the car is successful at the lower speed. Some of the results of this are quite startling; cars that were expected to be good were poor to say the least.
The final results are weighted towards the towing scores, but as I said at the beginning, lots of things are taken into consideration.
When the results are announced, people seem to get in a real state about what's done what. At no time has anyone from PC said "thou must dispose of thy worthy tow car and go thou must spendeth thy hard earned on one of these" as it is realised that owners have different requirements of their cars. As pure tow cars, a bug, heavy 4X4 that is well controlled would probably make the best as they are capable of towing anything. But, not everyone has a large caravan (nor would want one!), and providing a smaller car is very capable of towing a smaller caravan well, considering that 90% of the time it is likely to be driven solo, it makes sense that it could be a winner. Indeed, there have been some large, heavy 4X4's (and pick-ups) that verge on being dangerous, whereas some of the smaller cars have been a real revelation.
Whilst we know that there are a number who are skeptical about these events (and had I not been involved, I could have been included in that when you see some of the results), a great deal of effort is put into the Tow Car Awards to get as much information as it's possible to do so. What is also interesting is the number of times over the years I've been at the NEC shows talking to various manufacturers, when an owner approaches and states that there is something wrong with their caravan. It usually goes along the lines of "we've had the caravan for three years, and it was fine behind our ******. We've recently changed the car, and now the caravan is all over the place. Do you think it's likely to be the stabiliser?" Sometimes, looking back at previous events might have shown that the "new" car is pretty poor when it comes to stability.
The results of this year's event will be announced in mid-June!
1. Towing
2. Solo
3. Practicality
4. Buying and Owning
The "Solo" results are based pretty much upon how What Car? testers rate each car. On that basis, it is a very subjective issue, as I know that I've driven cars that they rate highly, but wouldn't entertain one myself, and probably vice versa.
The "Practicality" covers a whole multitude of things, like the amount of boot space, ease of getting to the towing electrics, do ALL the electrics work, clarity of the handbooks, how much the rear suspension drops with a caravan hitched etc.
"Buying and Owning" covers the costs of running each vehicle, and includes comparative economy (and True MPG where the tests have been done), CO2 emissions, purchase price and depreciation, Company Car Tax (something that once again isn't relevant to me), etc., etc.
"Towing" is based upon several judges driving a course, which includes numerous different tests, including a 1:6 hill start, and a 60 (and 70 if stable at 60) dual-carriageway run, together with many other things. Each of those is judges pretty much by a "seat of the pants" method, but surprisingly, the results from most judges tend to have the same cars at the top, and the same at the bottom. One of the judges is involved in more scientific methods. The car is GPS tracked, and whilst the ATC units do not operate the caravan brakes, live data is obtained by Al-Ko so that yaw, roll and pitch rates can be obtained at any point during the test. Stopping distances are measured by taking GPS data giving 30-0 times and distances, and whether the caravan pulls up smoothly or it thumps the car etc. That test is carried out at exactly the same spot on the test tracks so that it is as consistent as it is possible to be. Two 30-60 measurements are taken too. One in each direction of a perfectly flat section of track. Finally, (and the bit that sorts the good from the bad) lane change tests are done. These involve passing through a gate, swerving to the right to pass through another gate, and then back to the left for a third. The runs are done at 30, 32 and 35. The higher speed tests (which seem like nothing really, but believe me, they're plenty fast enough!!) are only done if the car is successful at the lower speed. Some of the results of this are quite startling; cars that were expected to be good were poor to say the least.
The final results are weighted towards the towing scores, but as I said at the beginning, lots of things are taken into consideration.
When the results are announced, people seem to get in a real state about what's done what. At no time has anyone from PC said "thou must dispose of thy worthy tow car and go thou must spendeth thy hard earned on one of these" as it is realised that owners have different requirements of their cars. As pure tow cars, a bug, heavy 4X4 that is well controlled would probably make the best as they are capable of towing anything. But, not everyone has a large caravan (nor would want one!), and providing a smaller car is very capable of towing a smaller caravan well, considering that 90% of the time it is likely to be driven solo, it makes sense that it could be a winner. Indeed, there have been some large, heavy 4X4's (and pick-ups) that verge on being dangerous, whereas some of the smaller cars have been a real revelation.
Whilst we know that there are a number who are skeptical about these events (and had I not been involved, I could have been included in that when you see some of the results), a great deal of effort is put into the Tow Car Awards to get as much information as it's possible to do so. What is also interesting is the number of times over the years I've been at the NEC shows talking to various manufacturers, when an owner approaches and states that there is something wrong with their caravan. It usually goes along the lines of "we've had the caravan for three years, and it was fine behind our ******. We've recently changed the car, and now the caravan is all over the place. Do you think it's likely to be the stabiliser?" Sometimes, looking back at previous events might have shown that the "new" car is pretty poor when it comes to stability.
The results of this year's event will be announced in mid-June!
Heres another idea. Instead of printing them all in the magazine, have a separate supplement, as you do with the top 100 sites: that way I wouldn't have to skip loads of dull stuff about cars to get to the good stuff about caravans!
Just to remind you all that our 2015 Tow Car Awards ceremony is tonight! We'll reveal this year's winners here at 8pm. And if you'd like to see the preview video, please click here.
Can PC confirm that the tests were conducted towing caravans or trailers to the towing limit of the car, ie 2000kg for the CX-5?
From this link it infers that they were.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/britain%E2%80%99s-best-car-towing-revealed
From this link it infers that they were.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/britain%E2%80%99s-best-car-towing-revealed
xtrailman said:
All cars towed a caravan weighted to 85% of the kerbweight unless the legal towing limit was below this figure.
Cars with 85% match figures or legal towing limits below 1100kg pulled a small trailer instead of a caravan, weighted to 800kg.
That's a shame.
A 100% ratio as well would be useful for the more experienced tower, as you are probably aware more people are towing at higher ratios, due to fuel costs and cars loosing weight.
A 100% ratio as well would be useful for the more experienced tower, as you are probably aware more people are towing at higher ratios, due to fuel costs and cars loosing weight.
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