2100kg towcar

[Ads910]

Been trying to find a car that is mam 2100kg and capable of towing a 1400 max weighted caravan, my 2.0 petrol qashqai just don't have enough power

 

[ProfJohnL]

Been trying to find a car that is mam 2100kg and capable of towing a 1400 max weighted caravan, my 2.0 petrol qashqai just don't have enough power

Hello Ads,
I'm sorry but its great shame that most car manufacturers bury the MAM (GVW) or rarely mention it in their publications.It is of course stamped on the Vehicle data plate.

The other way round it is to take the +E extension test to raise your combine MAM figure to 7500kg.

 

[otherclive]

As Prof says it is quite difficult to find out MAM other than looking at the car's plate, or V5. Try trip around the used car lots. possibles might be Forester, Octavia, or Qashqai diesels, but don't rule out others such as C Max etc. But Profs recommendation to bite the bullet and go for the full licence would really open up your possibilities.

 

[Raywood]

Finding one at exactly 2,100 is difficult but the Mazda 6 with the 175 PS engine and manual transmission is 2,090 so would suit. We are on our third 6 and have had no trouble with the pulling power of our caravans in your weight bracket and the cars have proved very competent tow cars and totally reliable. The towing limit is 1,600 kg but it is the gross vehicle weight plus the weight of the trailer that counts in law. Having said that many people find their caravan over weight so I would check yours is at, or below 1,400 when loaded.

 

[DrZhivago]

Finding one at exactly 2,100 is difficult but the Mazda 6 with the 175 PS engine and manual transmission is 2,090

Presumably it does not need to be 2100 precisely (or he could add a 10 gm weight!).

If used is OK, I'm using a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 3.0l CRD (Mercedes V6 engine) 2005-10 WK series (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee_%28WK%29), around 2.2 tonnes. It is as well to know a bit about cars though when buying and owning as they can be expensively troublesome (I got a very low mileage one), and grit your teeth for the VED if post-2006. The rare 7-seat Jeep Commander (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Commander_%28XK%29) is mechanicaly identical.

Mine is powerful enough but they can be also be found with a 5.7l V8 petrol engine, although rarer still in the UK - but the VED is still the same (if not the insurance) so what the heck :evil:

Of course you could go for the current model of Grand Cherokee, the WK2, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee_%28WK2%29) which weighs around the same amount.

 

[otherclive]

Surely the maximum authorised weight of the jeep plus caravan MTPLM would exceed the OP s 3500 kg licence limit. If the jeep comes in at 2.2 tonnes kerb weight then it's a no-no to start with isn't it?

 

[DrZhivago]

weight of the jeep plus caravan MTPLM would exceed the OP s 3500 kg licence limit

That's true, if that is the reason why he wants his car to be close to 2100 kg. Depends when he took the driving test.

Presumably anyone can take a further test to raise their limit?

 

[ProfJohnL]

... but it is the gross vehicle weight plus the weight of the trailer that counts in law.

Sorry Ray not quite righ!t.
The law requires the combined MAM not to exceed 3500kg, What youhave actually stated si the GVW ( MAM) of the car but only the weight (i.e. a measured value) rather than its weight limit.

Its s subtle but very important difference which even the Govt web site got wrong and we had to point it out to them, and it has since been corrected.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Presumably it does not need to be 2100 precisely (or he could add a 10 gm weight!).....

Dr. Z
I think you have the wrong end of the stick. Licence requirements are always based on MAM's the Maximum Authorised Mass, which for a car is its Gross Vehicle Weight, and for a caravan its MTPLM.

Its not about margins, there are no margins as far as the licence category is concerned. If you have a car with a GVW of 2200kg, and a caravan 1301kg MTPLM, your combined mam is
3501 which exceed the licence category B limit of 3500kg. You are not entitled to drive that combination of car and caravan.

You can't do anything about it such as only part loading as it is always based on the MAM values.

Solution is to change car or caravan or take the +E extension test.

 

[Jaydug]

Been trying to find a car that is mam 2100kg and capable of towing a 1400 max weighted caravan, my 2.0 petrol qashqai just don't have enough power

That shouldn't be too difficult. Two guys I know both tow caravans of around 1400Kgs. One tows with a 2013 Mondeo with 163bhp diesel engine and the other uses a Peugeot 508SW also with a 2ltr diesel. Myself I use a Citroen C5-X7 with a 2ltr diesel engine.

 

[Raywood]

... but it is the gross vehicle weight plus the weight of the trailer that counts in law.

Sorry Ray not quite righ!t.
The law requires the combined MAM not to exceed 3500kg, What youhave actually stated si the GVW ( MAM) of the car but only the weight (i.e. a measured value) rather than its weight limit.

Its s subtle but very important difference which even the Govt web site got wrong and we had to point it out to them, and it has since been corrected.

Prof, I am not sure I follow you here. You state in the next post that the MAM and GVW are the same thing. Surely the GVW is its weight limit as if you exceed that you are beyond the cars theoretical safe limit.
It does occur to me that the towball load should be within the GVW although what difference it would make I am not sure but part of the MTPLM is being carried by the car so your example might just be legal.

 

[Buckman]

Been trying to find a car that is mam 2100kg and capable of towing a 1400 max weighted caravan, my 2.0 petrol qashqai just don't have enough power

That shouldn't be too difficult. Two guys I know both tow caravans of around 1400Kgs. One tows with a 2013 Mondeo with 163bhp diesel engine and the other uses a Peugeot 508SW also with a 2ltr diesel. Myself I use a Citroen C5-X7 with a 2ltr diesel engine.

I think you will find that the 2013 Mondeo manual with gross maximum weight of 2180kg plus the 1400kg caravan exceeds the 3500kg limit by 80kg.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof, I am not sure I follow you here. You state in the next post that the MAM and GVW are the same thing. Surely the GVW is its weight limit as if you exceed that you are beyond the cars theoretical safe limit.
It does occur to me that the towball load should be within the GVW although what difference it would make I am not sure but part of the MTPLM is being carried by the car so your example might just be legal.

The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the same thing as the tow vehicles Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM), and in the same way the caravans MTPLM is the MAM of the caravan, the important bit you have missed is the fact the Cat B licence requires the COMBINED MAM of (car and Trailer) must not exceed 3500kg.

What you actually stated was "... it is the gross vehicle weight plus the weight of the trailer that counts in law." That is strictly wrong as far as licence entitlements go.

Using your definition you will only know the "weight of the trailer" if you measure it. Its not the same thing as the MAM of the trailer. so for example: if you have car of MAM 2200kg and a part loaded trailer to a weight of 1300kg by your method it would be 3500kg and thus appear to OK.

BUT the trailer is only part loaded which means its MAM (MTPLM) will be more than 1300kg which will take the combined MAM to over 3500kg, and thus is not legal for Cat B only drivers under the Licencing regulations.

This is crucially a different issue to the mechanical ability of a car to tow a trailer, which comes under construction and use regulations. where part loading is permissible to keep a trailer within the cars Gross Train Weight limit, even though its MTPLM does exceed it. In this instance the Nose load being carried rather than towed is a factor, but not in the Driver Licence entitlement arena.

 

[Raywood]

Prof, I think we agree but missed each others point. What I meant here was that with a 1400 kg trailer the OP was within 3,500 kg although the cars towing limit was 1600 kg which is over it. Possibly I was not clear in that it is the MTPLM of the trailer provided it is not overloaded that is relevant here, which is just within the limit as looking at it now I see your position on actual weights.
On reflection I am not sure I would go so close to the limit as if you then change the caravan then you are limiting your replacement choice to exactly the weight you have and may have to rule out what you want for the sake of a few kg.

 

[ProfJohnL]

.... now I see your position on actual weights.
On reflection I am not sure I would go so close to the limit as if you then change the caravan then you are limiting your replacement choice to exactly the weight you have and may have to rule out what you want for the sake of a few kg.

As I stressed it was the licence entitlement I was describing not the cars capability. which is why the exact wording is so important.

I actually have other concerns as well. Again depending on when the driving licence was awarded, there is also the issue of teh MAM, of the trailer must not exceed the ULW of the tow vehicle, in addition to the Combined MAM not exceeding 3500kg. It's something else that needs to be considered.

It wold far easier for teh OP to take the +E extension test to raise the the Combined MAM to 7000kg p Problems solved.

 

[Buckman]

Prof, I think we agree but missed each others point. What I meant here was that with a 1400 kg trailer the OP was within 3,500 kg although the cars towing limit was 1600 kg which is over it. Possibly I was not clear in that it is the MTPLM of the trailer provided it is not overloaded that is relevant here, which is just within the limit as looking at it now I see your position on actual weights.
On reflection I am not sure I would go so close to the limit as if you then change the caravan then you are limiting your replacement choice to exactly the weight you have and may have to rule out what you want for the sake of a few kg.

It does not matter one iota what the trailer actually physically weighs and even it if was empty and the sum of the gross maximum weight of the vehicle plus the MTPLM of the caravan is taken and it exceeds the 3500kg then points on your licence and a fine. Many people think that because a trailer is empty the DVLA or police will only look at the weight of the trailer however they will look at the MTPLM of the trailer and use that figure so beware.

 

[Ads910]

Thanks for all the replys.

I'll check out the cars that some of you have recommended.

I am a catagory b holder so the 3500kg train weight along with the other rules that goes with being cat b holder makes it difficult to tow a larger caravan.

Ideally I need to do the test and get a better tow vehicle, ideally a 4 wheel drive. If I was sure I'd pass I'd do it now but don't want to pay for it an then fail! Maybe I'll do some practicing in my current car then go for the rest.

Thanks everyone

 

[ProfJohnL]

It does not matter one iota what the trailer actually physically weighs and even it if was empty and the sum of the gross maximum weight of the vehicle plus the MTPLM of the caravan is taken and it exceeds the 3500kg then points on your licence and a fine. Many people think that because a trailer is empty the DVLA or police will only look at the weight of the trailer however they will look at the MTPLM of the trailer and use that figure so beware.

I agree with what you have written but just for clarity it only applies to the consideration of driver's licence entitlement to drive a particular vehicle or combination.

 

[timhowarduk]

Thanks for all the replys.
Maybe I'll do some practicing in my current car then go for the rest.
Thanks everyone

The B+E test is exactly the same test as HGV drivers do to add artic entitlement (C+E) just in a different vehicle and trailer! When I did C+E some chaps were doing B+E. The main thing people often worry about is the reversing exercise. Can I reassure you that almost all driving schools use a twin axle trailer for this, and twin axle trailers are infinitely easier to reverse than single axle trailers. You have time to think and correct things, the extra drag slows things down. (In fact even though I can drive an artic the thing I hate reversing most is a small single axle car trailer as by the time you see it in either mirror it is far too late to do anything to correct it!)

Aside from the reversing test, there is an uncouple and couple test which is really routine, and then a nice drive around the local area. You have to demonstrate a few "stop by side of road" and do an independent drive where you follow signs. It tends to be taught as a 3-5 day course in a driving schools car and trailer with a test at the end.
Best of luck if you go for it!

 

[ProfJohnL]

..... twin axle trailers are infinitely easier to reverse than single axle trailers. You have time to think and correct things, the extra drag slows things down. (In fact even though I can drive an artic the thing I hate reversing most is a small single axle car trailer as by the time you see it in either mirror it is far too late to do anything to correct it!)...

The way a trailer reverses when coupled to a tow vehicle has nothing to do with the number of axles or "drag", it is entirely dependant on the distance from the coupling to the effective rotation point of the trailer. The bigger the distance the less the trailer reacts to steering inputs. Most tow vehicles will easily overcome any "drag" so its not a significant factor when coupled.

Whilst for a single axle trailer the effective turning point is mid point of the road wheels contact with the road, for a TA it van vary within the rectangular footprint of the all the contact points of the road wheels, and it is affected by how the trailer is loaded, and which wheels have the greatest contact force with the road.

Whilst it is more often than not the case that Twin axle caravans tend to be longer caravans, it is not always the case, there are plenty of long single axle trailers, and also plenty of short (usually builders) trailers that have twin axles.

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi ads910 , we've recently upgraded our car to a Ford Kuga , 2.o litre diesel and we pull a 1484 kg caravan no bother .