320d estate matched with Ace Firestar?

[Gavin1974]

The other half is in love with the Ace Award Firestar....but giving the weight of it do I need to burst her bubble?

We have a 320d estate, with a quoted kerb weight of 1580kg.

The firstar has a MTPLM of 1500kg and a MIRO of 1290 kg.

I know the 85% rule is just a guide, but do people think this match is pushing the guide a bit to far?

The van is also 7ft6 wide, which puts me of a little!

Thanks

Gavin

 

[RichardS1]

The answer really depends on your towing experience Gavin. I towed a 1500kg caravan with an Accord estate (1606kg)for several thousand miles and was very pleased with the stability and performance of the outfit. Remember the 85% figure is not a rule but a guidelin, the 3 series has a great towing reputation with correct loading it should make a stable match with the Firestar.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hi gavin, i have just been onto www.whatowcar.com to have a look for you.

bmw 320d manual touring kerb 1580kg, towing a ace award firestar with a payload of 200kg towing at 102%.

payload of 250kg towing at 106%.

the maximum you can tow with that car is 1600kg and max towball/nose weight is 75kg.

i wouldnt tow that high i dont know if your insurance would cover you that high either.

im a stickler for the 85% ish guide its not done my dad in law any problems and hes towed for 40 years.

it is just a caravan club guide for you and your familys safety it is not the law but its up to you.

if you changed your 320 touring for a 520 touring then no probs be about 85% to 88% at a rough guess as i had a quick look.

i say change your car and buy the van she wants, lol. well im a women so i will agree with her haha.

jo-anne

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

hi the 530 it says on the cuddles site kerb weight is 1755, towing at 85% van should be 1492kg fully loaded, nose weight is 90kg. a 535 at 85% is 1560.

jo-anne

 

[RichardS1]

Hi Jo-anne

With the Firestar having an MTPLM of 1500kg, and the 320d kerbweight being 1580kg how can the match be calculated at 102% and 106%. I would not endorse an unsafe outfit, but do feel to much attention is paid to the 85% guideline these days. In reality the majority of people would be able to detect any difference should thier outfit be 85%, 90% or 95%. The most important factor is correct loading and driving technique.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

richard, i was just going on what what towcar said. i know sometimes there figures arnt bang on.

if you worked it out manually what would the % towing be then?.

jo-anne

 

[Gavin1974]

thanks everyone, that's given me some food for thought.

According to the log book the kerb weight of the car is 1580kg, whilst the firestar has an MTPLM of 1500kg. Which if I've done my sums properly its a 95% match.

Plan would be to leave it on a site this year (hopefully Anglesey way as its only 1.5hrs away) and maybe upgrade the car next year.

Jo - I'd love a series estate....but they're well out of my price range.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

gavin you never know it could be you winning the 50 million in the euro millions next week mate then what would you have?.

jo-anne

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

gavin, im sure the firestar is the same layout as the van we have just bought. we have the sterling elite onyx. side fixed bed and side washroom, 2 front paralel seats with chest and a sideboard opposite the kitchen?. all on a single axel.

im sure you wont be disapointed mate. were going away in it on the 9th feb for a week in dorset and we cant wait. we made the bed up yesturday with the elec blanket closed all the blinds etc and i was really impressed how dark, cosy, and comfortable it was.

we have gone from a avondale dart 556/6 6 berth end bunks bottom of range on a single axel and a very narrow van to pure luxury of a side fixed bed.

we have also change the awning from a large porch ventura marlin to a bradcot classic with 2 annexs so im sure we will appreciate lots more space.

cant wait mate.

jo-anne

 

[RichardS1]

Hi Jo-anne.

Gavin would be towing at 95% with the 3 Series and Firestar.

I agree with you the Swift group nearside fixed beds are lovely vans.

Have a great time down in Dorset.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

richard and gavin, i told you that site isnt correct with its figures half the time.

how do you work it out manually then?.

my partner is great with figures but me im proper thick.

jo-anne

 

[Chaps]

Jo-anne to calculate the percentage you divide the MTPLM of the caravan by the kerbweight of the car and multiply by 100.

E.g. Caravan MPTLM 1500 kg

Car Kerbweight 1580 kg

Percentage is 1500/1580 x 100 = 94.9%

Here endeth the lesson!

Don't run yourself down, girl, you've got a lot of caravanning knowledge which we all find useful!

Claire

 

[Garfield]

Gavin,

I wouldn't worry about upgrading your car, the BMW with it's sports wheels and suspension and rear wheel drive makes an excellent towcar, I used to tow a boat with an "89" 530 at 107% right on the manufacturers towing limit and it was no problem at all, a lot more stable than some much heavier vehicles that were used to tow the boat. The big flaw with the 85% recommendation is that it takes no account of towcar suspension which is every bit as important as weight but much more difficult to quantify.

 

[MalcolmL]

It must be remembered that the 85% figure was suggested some years ago and while many other variables like firmness of suspension, noseweight, tyre pressures and loading etc have an effect on towing ability, it is a reasonable rule of thumb. If nothing else, it gets people thinking if their towing ratio is much above the 85%.

 

[Gavin1974]

Hi Jo,

Just looked up the sterling elite onyx and yes it does look the same....I'm guessing they all come off the same production line and its just the intenal spec/fittings that are diffent.

But anyway, they are a lovely looking van inside the kitchen dinner area feels quite open, helped by the low unit opposite the kitchen.

My wife feel in love with it straight away, but I'm not convinced its the best layout for us long term as all the books suggest the twin dinnette thing being the best layout for people with kids. We have a young baby (4 months), with plans for one more eventually....decisions decisions...this should be a question for the buyers guide forum.

Everyone else - thanks for the advice on towing limits the Ace has a MIRO of over 200kg, surely we wont need more than 100kg of that? Taking the van to 1400kg which sounds more reasonable, anyway, if I can find a seasonal pitch in anglesey its all academic for this year (any ideas anyone of a pitch on anglesey - guess that's a question for another forum too!)

Thanks again,

Gavin

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jo Anne,

If the vehicle manufacture gives a maximum tow load figure, and provided your insurance has not specifically stated a lower figure before you take out or renew policy, they cannot prevent you from fully using the manufactures capacity.

Of course you are still subject any limitations on your driving licence, and the outfit must be road legal and stable.

 

[emlyn]

Hi Jo,

Just looked up the sterling elite onyx and yes it does look the same....I'm guessing they all come off the same production line and its just the intenal spec/fittings that are diffent.

But anyway, they are a lovely looking van inside the kitchen dinner area feels quite open, helped by the low unit opposite the kitchen.

My wife feel in love with it straight away, but I'm not convinced its the best layout for us long term as all the books suggest the twin dinnette thing being the best layout for people with kids. We have a young baby (4 months), with plans for one more eventually....decisions decisions...this should be a question for the buyers guide forum.

Everyone else - thanks for the advice on towing limits the Ace has a MIRO of over 200kg, surely we wont need more than 100kg of that? Taking the van to 1400kg which sounds more reasonable, anyway, if I can find a seasonal pitch in anglesey its all academic for this year (any ideas anyone of a pitch on anglesey - guess that's a question for another forum too!)

Thanks again,

Gavin

Gavin,

In response to your last point, I can thoroughly recommend Home Farm Caravan Site near Moelfre and Benllech on Anglesey (www.homefarm-anglesey.co.uk Tel 01248 410614). I live nearby and it is a very high quality site near the coast north-east Anglesey.

 

[Gavin1974]

Oh dear, another question.

Whilst I was getting reasonable comfortable with the car kerb weight and van MTPLM, I think nose weight could be an issue.

I've an old book which states the nose weight should not be more than 7% of the MTPLM.

The 320d tourer has a max nose weight of 75kg, which if the 7% rule is correct I should only be able to tow a van with a MTPLM of less than 1075kg.

I doubt I can get any decent 4 berth van with MTPLM of 1075kg.

Do I need to worry about this, could the nose weight of the Firestar be kept below 75kg through careful loading?

Thanks

Gavin

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Gavin,

The 7% nose-weight guideline was created quite a few years ago, when tow-bars and caravan couplings either weren't type approved, didn't carry any loading limit information, and the typical family caravan weighed around 700 kg to 1000 kg - giving a sensible 50 kg to 70 kg nose-weight.

It's not a universal guideline either - most European caravans (because of different geometry - longer A frame) suggest a nose-with ratio of 4% - which is often why you hear people express incredulity when they see a picture of a standard family car towing a "big" Hymer.

And if you were to load the Firestar to it's maximum 1500 kg - then the 7% guideline would suggest you use a nose-weight of 105 kg - which is 5 kg above the physical load limit for the AL-KO tow-coupling - and then you couldn't tow the caravan with anything.

So my suggestion is that you load the caravan so that the nose-weight is around the 70 kg area - as near as sensible to the 75 kg limit - but leaving a bit of headroom for inaccuracies in the bathroom scales

My only concern is that the Firestar is / was built very nose-heavy - and that you then have a fight to get the nose-weight down to sensible values. Hopefully that won't be the case, but it would be a good idea to check...

Robert

 

[Gavin1974]

Thanks Robert, that's really useful.

I assume the dealer will help me out with the nose weight.

Cheers again

Gavin

 

[RichardS1]

Hi Gavin

Swift are responding to questions about their products on this forum it may be worth posting a request of the noseweight in the technical section.

I endorse what Robert has said, sensible loading should ensure you can keep the noseweight to the 70kg he suggests.

 

[Garfield]

According to the towing law section of this site, the legal minimum is 4% of the actual trailer weight, most couplings and caravans have a max limit of 100kg so a noseweight of 50-75kg is ok for the majority of outfits, if you are having to go above 75kg to make the outfit stable it would suggest a problem elsewhere.

It is possible that when 7% was suggested as a noseweight that caravans were lighter back then

 

[Lutz]

Actually, the legal minimum is 4% OR 25kg, whichever is the lower.