4 x 4 Drivers

[CliveV]

Norman - My kids TEACH me how to use a computor and I teach them good manners - has that confused you?

Obviously hit a nerve here! In case you didn't realise this is an open Forum. If you make rude and childish comments about another contributor you are likely to get a poke from others.

The way to avoid it Norman is to act like an adult. It may be difficult but give it a try.

 

[derek_5078799]

I think Lutz and Graham give the best responses here (and without resorting to petty squabbling). I am not bothered who drives what and why, it is down to individual choice and is not illegal as yet to drive a 4x4 but anyone who holds a genuine view and opinion about anything doesnt deserve to be labelled "anti" because of their views. This is obviously a sensitive subject and I feel should be debated as such. I certainly do not wish to upset anyone with this posting.

 

[Matthew_5040954]

Stupidity is not confined to 4x4's, we've just come back from Kielder waters today down the M6 55-60mph passed a old volvo estate towing a caravan, the back of the volvo was that full, there was no rear suspension left.

Let's start focusing on bad drivers and not the cars they drive!!!!

 

[RogerL_5041474]

It's difficult, if not impossible, to target bad drivers while we have such an elementary driving test which gives a licence for life, as far as skill and attitude is concerned - and doesn't test driving outside built-up areas, on motorways or towing.

The facts that any new driver can pass their driving test and then immediately drive outside built-up areas, on motorways or tow up to 3500 kg GTW without any further tuition or experience goes a long way to explain why we have so many poor drivers on our roads - solo and towing.

Too many drivers regard the driving test as the ultimate test rather than a basic start.

 

[LMH]

I haven't been on line for a while.

The 4 x 4 debate has been resurrected again I see. How disappointing.

Regards

LH

 

[Tony_5064694]

Please note the use of the word "some" in the original posting.

When someone "takes the moral highground" it follows that certain other types will occupy the "moral lowground". This will apply to any subject. The problem comes when people just turn the debate into a farce by just, well, being a bit silly.

It can be quite difficult to make a valid point, but very easy to belittle someone's efforts.

 

[Stephen_5077753]

As a regular user of motorways in my job, I find very few caravan units exceeding the speed limits. However when I do see them they are not allways being towed by 4x4's (No I am not a 4x4 owner) One thing I do see regularly is a family car towing a small trailer and with young family on board(in the car) exceeding the speed limits and using the outside lane. Perhaps I have mis-interpreted the regulations but I allways thought that trailered vehicles could not use the third lane of a motorway or dual carriageway. Surely this kind of behaviour on the roads is far dangerous than someone towing a caravan 5 mph above the legal limit

Any vehicle towing a trailer cant use the 3rd or 4th lane of a motorway. They can use the second or third lane of a dual carriageway. Remember that a dual carriageway is a road that has a central divide NOT a road with 2 lanes in either direction

Steve

 

[PaulCopaul]

Graham, I always find it interesting whilst travelling on the autoroutes in France to notice these trailers travelling at 80mph or so. It's amazing how many you then come across further along on the hard shoulder with a blow out. Those little tyres must be going like the clappers and getting very hot.

Ray if travelling on french toll roads you can tow upto 81mph however only if your speed rating on your tyres allow it and you feel brave enough to do it

 

[PaulCopaul]

come on guys life is like a bag of allsorts otherwise it would be dull,ooh forgot to mention i am a 4x4 driver and have a big twin axle van and 18 wheeler artic oh and a pedal cycle

 

[CliveV]

Please note the use of the word "some" in the original posting.

When someone "takes the moral highground" it follows that certain other types will occupy the "moral lowground". This will apply to any subject. The problem comes when people just turn the debate into a farce by just, well, being a bit silly.

It can be quite difficult to make a valid point, but very easy to belittle someone's efforts.

Tony - I take your point re the inclusion of the word "some". But then why use an inflamatory title that tars all 4x4 drivers with the same brush?

And what are we to make of "humble little old me" as a self description.

We are all trying to live and let live. I for one agree totally with Klarky, Mathew & Roger et al in that I am far more concerned about safety when I see a large 'van towed by a small car.

Would you have posted the same if it was a large BMW saloon or a people carrier of some type, that came past you or was it just that it was an X5?

For goodness sake lets not start the same sterile debate going again UNLESS the facts can be pressented calmly and in a mature way so that objective decisions can be made.

 

[VIP2006]

I have recently changed to a 4x4 because I consider that they give me a safer ride! I find that in todays climate of a) cars getting lighter and b) vans getting heavier that acheiving the 85% recommendation is becoming harder to acheive. many subscribers to this forum who dislike the 4x4 are not taking into account that in the event of the caravan snaking the heavier vehicle (and in the main a 4x4 is heavier than a car) prevents the tail wagging the dog. ( the dog being the 4x4) IMHO

 

[Award1]

We still live in a free country (just!!), every driver has the potential to be a lethal weapon, therefore you just take care when approaching hazards on the road.

I do not own a 4x4 and can't justify one for the mileage I do in a year solo (30K), but I do not condem people for driving them if that is their choice (my sister has a Disco TD5, again her choice), likewise my car of choice at present is a Mondeo TDCI, towing a Bailey Provence.

So IMHO please can we end this pointless discussion, as well as do you support MOT's for caravans before the DVLA/VOSA/DOT start to take an interest and charging us again for the use of the roads.

Andrew

 

[Norman_5078791]

The safety of you, your passengers and your fellow road users should never be considered pointless.

 

[Kanga_5075163]

I have recently changed to a 4x4 because I consider that they give me a safer ride! I find that in todays climate of a) cars getting lighter and b) vans getting heavier that acheiving the 85% recommendation is becoming harder to acheive. many subscribers to this forum who dislike the 4x4 are not taking into account that in the event of the caravan snaking the heavier vehicle (and in the main a 4x4 is heavier than a car) prevents the tail wagging the dog. ( the dog being the 4x4) IMHO

Shiraz,

You are quite mistaken about cars getting lighter, it is quite the reverse due to the amount of kit they now have onboard (aircon, cruise, sat nav etc etc) The new passat has gone up by over 100kg to 1650kg, weighing more than most small 4x4's!

 

[Kanga_5075163]

The safety of you, your passengers and your fellow road users should never be considered pointless.

I agree, lets have an MOT for vans.

 

[DEANO3528]

Almost sounds like yet another Ramblers Association tirade!

I drive a derv Disco with uprated suspension and intercooler (amongst other goodies). I use it offroad and on Green Lanes (they're the ones that the RA think we shouldn't be allowed onto even though we have proved historical evidence, because they want the entire countryside for themselves). I own and tow an old and fairly heavy '81 Osprey deluxe and on the way back from the LR Fest at Peterboro' the other weekend I didn't drop under 65. Now you can get all high and mighty about it if you want, but if I didn't consider it safe, or that I wasn't capable, then I wouldn't have been doing it. I'm not going to put my arris on the line for anyone but you'll have a job to find a better towing platform than most fwd vehicles. There are some hideous ruts on the eastbound track of the A14 so I slowed down some, it's called reading the road I believe. Yes I have a Class 1 licence, but I don't take things for granted.

 

[CliveV]

Hi Dean

I didn't get to the LR Fest but went to Billing this year again for the 7th time. What a great week! The sun never stopped shining and even tho it was packed a great time was had by all.

We meet up every year with families met in the late 1990's!

Where abouts in the country are you - I am on the border of Dorest & Wiltshire and belong to FoDRoW (Friends of Dorsets Rights of Way) Great organisation that works with the local Rights of Way Officer to provide manpower to upkeep Bridleways and Footpaths as well as Green Lanes.

We get on really well with the Horse Riders but some of the walkers!!! Not all but some are a real pain. It is lovely to see them get told what is what by a Highways and By-ways officer!

Have a look at www.FoDRoW.com

Sadly the last LR event for me for the year will be the Sodbury Sortout. Ever been to this event?

 

[DEANO3528]

Well this year is the first time sine '95 that I have stayed away. I did not like the way things were going on the LRe forum (now dead and reborn as LRAddict with no mag involvement) so voted with my feet. I heard many good things about it, plus the usual bugbears re toilets/water pressure/very cramped. It has definitely changed since I first went and not really for the better I feel. Back when LRO ran it, it was more of an enthusiasts show with plenty of autojumble and the like, plus enough shoe/dress/trinket type stalls to keep the women interested. Unfortunately the stall holders are now charged extortionate pitch rates and so the smaller concerns tend to stay away.

I'm on the Suffolk coast very close to a certain 'blot on the landscape', although I'm no anti'.

I know of your website and have visited the area several times. My 'Landy buddy' is from Swanage and used to work the fishing boats out of there.

Never done the sortout although I'm promising myself a visit one of these times.

Sorry to take this off topic peeps

 

[Norman_5078791]

Almost sounds like yet another Ramblers Association tirade!

I drive a derv Disco with uprated suspension and intercooler (amongst other goodies). I use it offroad and on Green Lanes (they're the ones that the RA think we shouldn't be allowed onto even though we have proved historical evidence, because they want the entire countryside for themselves). I own and tow an old and fairly heavy '81 Osprey deluxe and on the way back from the LR Fest at Peterboro' the other weekend I didn't drop under 65. Now you can get all high and mighty about it if you want, but if I didn't consider it safe, or that I wasn't capable, then I wouldn't have been doing it. I'm not going to put my arris on the line for anyone but you'll have a job to find a better towing platform than most fwd vehicles. There are some hideous ruts on the eastbound track of the A14 so I slowed down some, it's called reading the road I believe. Yes I have a Class 1 licence, but I don't take things for granted.

I'm sure that would stand up in court.

 

[CliveV]

Dean Certainly agree with the lack of auto jumble at Billing - I too noticed the decline. However, the Sortout is far far better if you want that. Prices are lower that at Billing as well.

Funnily enough the lack of toilets and showers spurred us on to get a caravan! The luxury of having your own toilet and shower - wonderful.

 

[DEANO3528]

Nicely back on topic Clive!

Real smooth.

 

[Ogre]

I had an 'incident' recently with one of these 4 wheel drive vehicles.

Entering a narrow road, with cars parked on one side, I got about half way along it, when this huge black 4 wheel drive appeared from a side turning.

The driver saw me coming, deliberately turned right in front of me, and then drove to within about 6 inches of my front bumper. He clearly had no intention of reversing, and was making 'pushing' gestures with his hands as if to say "Get out of my way".

I declined, wherupon, he jumped out of it, and came to my side window and said, I'm not backing up pal, so if you don't move that F*****g thing, then I'll punch your f*****g face flat". Big, arrogant fellow, obviously thought that he was the king of the road'. Just the type that spoils it for all the decent 4 wheel drivers out there.

That was where he made a big mistake.

What a shame for him that my unmarked traffic car was fitted with the very latest in video and sound recording technology, and that my passenger and I had time to spare!

We get a lot of complaints about drivers like this. If you have the opportunity to do so, deal with such incidents immediately by phoning 999 and giving the registration of the vehicle to the police. Often these sort of aggressive and intimidating drivers have been drinking, which is why they behave like they do, and can quickly be detained. As in this case.

 

[Janey1]

Class !!

I'd love to have seen the look on his face. These type of people give ALL drivers a bad name.

 

[DEANO3528]

What a lovely story Keith, how I laughed!

Unfortunately I see one flaw in your comment:

"We get a lot of complaints about drivers like this. If you have the opportunity to do so, deal with such incidents immediately by phoning 999 and giving the registration of the vehicle to the police."

Anti-4x4 people will look at that and say, "Oh that's a good way to upset those great big monsters from hell!"

It's a fact of life that anything larger than a Mundaneo is spawn of the devil to some road users and they will complain about them if given the chance. I ought to know, being an ex-HGV1 driver and a 4wd owner I've taken flak from everyone. You are taught to take control of the road around you when learning to drive heavies but unfortunately a lot of road users translate this into what they think is being a roadhog. It's a fact of life for drivers of large vehicles that you have to make space for your vehicle as normal motorists don't have a clue how much room you actually need. I could go on, but I'll just start geting all bitter and twisted again.

 

[Lol1]

I had an 'incident' recently with one of these 4 wheel drive vehicles.

Entering a narrow road, with cars parked on one side, I got about half way along it, when this huge black 4 wheel drive appeared from a side turning.

The driver saw me coming, deliberately turned right in front of me, and then drove to within about 6 inches of my front bumper. He clearly had no intention of reversing, and was making 'pushing' gestures with his hands as if to say "Get out of my way".

I declined, wherupon, he jumped out of it, and came to my side window and said, I'm not backing up pal, so if you don't move that F*****g thing, then I'll punch your f*****g face flat". Big, arrogant fellow, obviously thought that he was the king of the road'. Just the type that spoils it for all the decent 4 wheel drivers out there.

That was where he made a big mistake.

What a shame for him that my unmarked traffic car was fitted with the very latest in video and sound recording technology, and that my passenger and I had time to spare!

We get a lot of complaints about drivers like this. If you have the opportunity to do so, deal with such incidents immediately by phoning 999 and giving the registration of the vehicle to the police. Often these sort of aggressive and intimidating drivers have been drinking, which is why they behave like they do, and can quickly be detained. As in this case.

And you think this is limited to 4x4 drivers do you?